The Illegal Irish in the US

Zambia · 09-09-2010 1:07am #1

I was viewing another thread and noticed this

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Noticeably absent by many of them was an equally
passionate desire to get the 50,000 criminal Irish living in the U.S. back to
our economy & I hope to see this topic addressed

Now almost every time illegal migration/Asylum Seeking to Ireland is mentioned someone trots out this line. Regarding the thousands of Irish in the US illegally. Pionting to why we dont give off about them. Fact of the matter is we cant as Ireland cannot summon its people back to its shores like dogs at dinner time. Even if we wanted to.

I for one know nobody Irish in the US illegally nor have I ever known of a case. Considering the implications of living in a country without legal status. Example a traffic accident could mean immediate deportation. I dont see how these figures hold up. Is this some mass of people left over from the 80's or what?

I for one submit the Illegal Irish in America are Americas issue and they have every right to deport them as they see fit under their law. Nobody mistakenly breaks migration law for long.

Does anyone disagree with this stand piont and why?

Thanks in Advance
Z

P.S I cant remember how to add a poll

sponsoredwalk · 09-09-2010 1:22am

Can't wait to see how passionate people get in defending this move :cool:
I'm sure I'll see the same people who were so adamant about getting those in
Mosney back to Nigeria lusting for this move emphatically, I mean they were
simply following the logic of it all and hardly applying double standards!

Get ready to add an extra 50,000-ish people to the dole queue to eat up
those lovely taxes, I hope someone will be able to find out how many
diaspora are illegally scattered throughout the entire world that await
their place on the dole queue.

ToniTuddle · 09-09-2010 1:31am

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Get ready to add an extra 50,000-ish people to the dole queue to eat up
those lovely taxes, I hope someone will be able to find out how many
diaspora are illegally scattered throughout the entire world that await
their place on the dole queue.

I know a good few illegal Irish who would come home but there is nothing left to return to job wise. So they would end up on the dole

If I didn't have my mother here I'd probably be over there myself!

Zambia · 09-09-2010 1:35am

Sponsored could you say where you are getting your 50,000 figure from.

sponsoredwalk · 09-09-2010 1:40am

My point is that it's utterly ridiculous to expect them to come home.
Imagine how many there are throughout the rest of the world!
The link even shows that the U.S. was going to integrate them officially.
It really pi∫∫e∫ me off when people go off on a tangent about the for'nurs
without realising that if we followed their logic of getting the illegal for'nurs
out of our country & brought ours back we'd be destroyed.

It's just the most rank hypocrisy & if they had their way they'd do far more
damage to our country than the supposed damage all these for'nurs are
doing to us. They want to have it both ways though...

Zambia, I provided a link in my first post to sidestep this very question,
google it as well to find more estimates of that number, I even included the
"ish" to indicate it's still an estimate.

Zambia · 09-09-2010 1:52am

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

My point is that it's utterly ridiculous to expect them to come home.
Imagine how many there are throughout the rest of the world!
The link even shows that the U.S. was going to integrate them officially.
It really pi∫∫e∫ me off when people go off on a tangent about the for'nurs
without realising that if we followed their logic of getting the illegal for'nurs
out of our country & brought ours back we'd be destroyed.

It's just the most rank hypocrisy & if they had their way they'd do far more
damage to our country than the supposed damage all these for'nurs are
doing to us. They want to have it both ways though...

Zambia, I provided a link in my first post to sidestep this very question,
google it as well to find more estimates of that number, I even included the
"ish" to indicate it's still an estimate.

Sorry I thought it was just underlined.

We cannot bring back people, we can only decide what happens in our own borders.

Nehaxak · 09-09-2010 2:47am

I personally think it all just boils down to ethnic origin. If the vast majority of Irish immigrants to the USA weren't non-english speaking typical looking white people, they'd already have been deported back to Ireland long ago.
Oh and I know plenty of Irish who are there working illegally and have been for years.

mikemac · 09-09-2010 2:59am

Yeah, had a friend working illegally until he had appendicitis
Went to hospital, had a consolation and was going to be charged 3k for the procedure.

Yeah, we all blast the HSE but no Irish citizen is going to be left with a similar bill.

Came home, never went back.

Working illegally if all fine but if you have to go to hospital and complete forms then questions get asked.

Permabear · 09-09-2010 3:03am

This post has been deleted.

Mahatma coat · 09-09-2010 3:50am

Forget America Zambia, Lets look at our own Shores here in Australia, how many Irish Illegals do you know of here in Australia?

they're fine tho cos they didnt spend Six months in a leaky boat;)

digme · 09-09-2010 3:59am

kinda funny reading this thread as loads of mexicans are actually all going home in huge numbers lately,the usa is done!!!!!!!!!

ToniTuddle · 09-09-2010 4:09am

digme wrote: »

kinda funny reading this thread as loads of mexicans are actually all going home in huge numbers lately,the usa is done!!!!!!!!!

Maybe that's true but there will just be more to take their place. So numbers kinda balance out I'd say!

Loads of Irish came home during the Celtic Tiger years and all that craic.
Now things have gone bust and another load of relatively young Irish have gone to the US and are staying illegally.

Zambia · 09-09-2010 5:11am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Forget America Zambia, Lets look at our own Shores here in Australia, how many Irish Illegals do you know of here in Australia?

they're fine tho cos they didnt spend Six months in a leaky boat;)

Well I know actually none but I would be very sure they exist in fairly big numbers. We all know that they are on borrowed time who wants to live under that radar all their life.

In essence they either become legit somehow or remain second class residents. Long term its not feasible to be illegal here in Australia.

@Donegalfella I have spent a week in the US. I am sure if I spent a few years there in New York I would know a few. No debate there my experience of illegal irish in the states is scant indication of current figures. All I'm saying is I know of none. No friends ,no friends of friends, no ex colleagues, no ex girlfriends etc

Mahatma coat · 09-09-2010 6:20am

thats the Thing Zambia, We're all Fairly sure they Exist, but at the same time I don't know any either. Maybe there are some knockin about in Sydney hangin around Bondi and being Tools, but I havent met any here in Brisbane.

that said if the Dimmi dont get their act together and renew my visa fair sharpish I might just throw me hat at it and go 'on the lam' for a bit:D:D:D

Been nearly 3 months 'Processing' and now they're bul****tin about wantin further Information, if they knew they were gonna require this Info why didnt they ask for it in the first Form

:(:(:(:(

troposphere · 09-09-2010 7:28am

Well from what I see most of the old time illegals from the 80 & 90's either headed back home during the boom years or ended up getting a green card or citizenship somehow.

Also I have heard that 50,000 figure thrown around for quite a few years now. My guess would be that they pulled it out of you know where.

But the Irish have always been treated differently than the Mexicans and other South Americans. They were a drop in the bucket compared to other illegals even back when there was thousands upon thousands of illegal Irish here in the 1980's & 90's.

They also went to areas like NY & Boston where there was a large number of Irish Americans and the cops and everybody turned a blind eye as long as there was no trouble.

The illegal Hispanics on the other hand, have the problem that there is so many of them here than it is much easier for them to get labeled trouble makers.

The majority of them will just want to work and keep out of trouble but the numbers are so large that the minority that want to cause trouble are easy for people to see.

Even if only a small number of illegal Irish were going around shooting people, stealing, having a bunch of kids and getting section 8 and food stamps, the whole "my great great great grandfather was 1/80th Irish" would get thrown out the window.

But anyway I doubt if large numbers of young Irish people came out here again illegally it would go as well as it did before. They seem to be much more full of themselves, I don't think it would go well.

Zambia · 09-09-2010 7:36am

Welcome to boards Tropo

From your post I assume you are in the states. Do you believe illegal irish should be sent back if caught?

ToniTuddle · 09-09-2010 7:38am

The plain fact is if the American government or Immigration authority folks wanted the illegal Irish out all they would have to do is visit every Irish bar in New York and Boston at the weekend.

It is that simple and they know it. Yet they don't. I've no idea why though.

troposphere · 09-09-2010 8:00am

@Zambia232 - It all depends what they are caught doing. If somebody wants to be dumb and steal a hot dog from a 7-eleven or wants to go around starting fights when they are pissed out of there head then I have no sympathy for them.

But the reality is that most of the time Irish people are generally well liked and are more likely to get out of trouble even more than if a regular American did the same thing.

This all goes out the window when you go outside of the states that you normally associate Irish people with. Those states and anywhere near the borders and being Irish is not going to help you.

@ToniTuddle - I believe it would be illegal to go into a place and start asking for legal status. Even with the law in Arizona that they passed I believe it says they have to have a reason to suspect that the person is illegal and they cannot use race and Mexicans & Mexican Americans can have the same accent, that is why it is such a gray area.

ToniTuddle · 09-09-2010 8:25am

troposphere wrote: »

But the reality is that most of the time Irish people are generally well liked and are more likely to get out of trouble even more than if a regular American did the same thing.

This all goes out the window when you go outside of the states that you normally associate Irish people with. Those states and anywhere near the borders and being Irish is not going to help you.

This is most definitely true.

@ToniTuddle - I believe it would be illegal to go into a place and start asking for legal status. Even with the law in Arizona that they passed I believe it says they have to have a reason to suspect that the person is illegal and they cannot use race and Mexicans & Mexican Americans can have the same accent, that is why it is such a gray area.

So why don't they change the law or have some clause in it that allows them to enter the property and question folks? What reason would qualify? They must not be that concerned with illegals.....

Think I read somewhere else about 10,000 Mexicans being deported even though alot/the majority were not trouble makers. Can't remember exactly, it was in a link somewhere on Boards >.<

Even if 50,000 or whatever Irish came back to Ireland and all bought houses and put their money into the banks....the majority would still end up on dole

troposphere · 09-09-2010 8:53am

@ToniTuddle - it is actually part of the constitution and even with the backlash against illegal immigration the process of amending the constitution is so complicated I doubt it would ever pass.

4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures without probable cause and the 14th Amendment guarantees that everybody should be treated equally.

This is the whole reason why they cannot racial profile Muslims at airport security (along with what has happened in the past with African Americans) and instead will waste their time patting down old people and searching kids.

From what I understand there is a few ways to get caught being an illegal here;

1) Most obvious, in the border region you have the border patrol who from what I have seen, seem to have different powers. They not only operate at the border but in-land near the border they will set up roadblocks or check trains and buses etc.

2) Get arrested, but even then I believe it all depends on where you get arrested. Some police departments check legal status during booking and others do not.

Really not sure how it all works but I know that some people will get released from jail and be immediately deported and others just get released.

One thing to also consider is that there is even a debate about using road checkpoints here to check for drunk drivers. People start taking about the Nazi's and Gestapo, so while lots of people would not care if illegals were asked for papers, if they started getting asked there would be a big backlash.

Zambia · 09-09-2010 8:59am

troposphere wrote: »

@Zambia232 - It all depends what they are caught doing. If somebody wants to be dumb and steal a hot dog from a 7-eleven or wants to go around starting fights when they are pissed out of there head then I have no sympathy for them.

But the reality is that most of the time Irish people are generally well liked and are more likely to get out of trouble even more than if a regular American did the same thing.

By caught I mean discovered by Officials to be Illegally in the country.

Like their company applys for federal contract and submits the detials of the staff that may work on the project to the FBI.

ToniTuddle · 09-09-2010 9:10am

troposphere wrote: »

@ToniTuddle - it is actually part of the constitution and even with the backlash against illegal immigration the process of amending the constitution is so complicated I doubt it would ever pass.

4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures without probable cause and the 14th Amendment guarantees that everybody should be treated equally.

From what I understand there is a few ways to get caught being an illegal here;

1) Most obvious, in the border region you have the border patrol who from what I have seen, seem to have different powers. They not only operate at the border but in-land near the border they will set up roadblocks or check trains and buses etc.

Good learning for me here!

Yeah I know about the in-land border thing. When my friend was leaving me at the airport he told me how one of his best mates got caught 100 miles from the border. He said himself how the friend was stupid to have been working anywhere that close-to me 100 miles seems pretty far but guess not!

Out of curiousity....if someone knows about illegals in America and never said anything, can they be someway in trouble with the law? If it's somehow proven they knew about the illegals.

troposphere · 09-09-2010 9:32am

@Zambia232 - to be honest not sure how likely that would be. Any company that would be applying for federal contracts would most likely also check all their employees legal status when they are hiring them. There is a verification system that employers can use to check an employee's legal status. From what I understand it would just says this person is not authorized to work and the person should contact DHS to provide more information. Obviously the person would not bother doing that if they were actually illegal.

What can happen is that immigration can conduct investigations of companies where a large number of illegals are believed to be working. They would raid the place and obviously if your illegal you would be locked up but these are normally factories or something like that.

The problem with that is these normally don't go down so well since normally these people are working for low money and have kids and stuff. Different than arresting some illegal for selling drugs or beating his wife.

I know a factory was raided a few years ago around here and the males were sent to Texas or something, the females were sent somewhere else, the kids were put into care or something.

Religious organisations and immigration groups started complaining about it and I believe in the end they had to let the mothers out to take care of the kids, and they let some stay, and others just agreed to be deported.

It gets complicated when the parents are illegal but the kids are citizens.

@ToniTuddle - I don't believe an individual could get in trouble but an employer could if they knowingly employed illegals. But the chances of getting caught are slim to none unless you operate a large company and employ a large number of illegals.

metrovelvet · 09-09-2010 10:04am

Zambia232 wrote: »

I was viewing another thread and noticed this

Now almost every time illegal migration/Asylum Seeking to Ireland is mentioned someone trots out this line. Regarding the thousands of Irish in the US illegally. Pionting to why we dont give off about them. Fact of the matter is we cant as Ireland cannot summon its people back to its shores like dogs at dinner time. Even if we wanted to.

I for one know nobody Irish in the US illegally nor have I ever known of a case. Considering the implications of living in a country without legal status. Example a traffic accident could mean immediate deportation. I dont see how these figures hold up. Is this some mass of people left over from the 80's or what?

I for one submit the Illegal Irish in America are Americas issue and they have every right to deport them as they see fit under their law. Nobody mistakenly breaks migration law for long.

Does anyone disagree with this stand piont and why?

Thanks in Advance
Z

P.S I cant remember how to add a poll

Oh they are everywhere. Usually in kitchens, wait staff or nannies.

Honestly I dont know what NYC would do without its illegal immigrants, between the mexicans and the Irish there is a huge source of cheap labour and it keeps costs down.

ToniTuddle · 09-09-2010 10:10am

metrovelvet wrote: »

Honestly I dont know what NYC would do without its illegal immigrants, between the mexicans and the Irish there is a huge source of cheap labour and it keeps costs down.

Well that's for sure. Found that out while working there this summer :mad:

Wisco · 09-09-2010 10:13am

You also have to remember that any official who starts banging on about deporting illegals is unlikely to get re-elected, except in the southwest of the US, as the relatives of most of the illegals (ie, Hispanics) are a large portion of the voting populace. And anyone who does start in on that topic often gets a giant bashing in the media so the topic isn't too popular, except with the hardliners who want every illegal out of the country ASAP (don't know who would scrub their toilets and cook their burgers after said mass deportation though :rolleyes:)

metrovelvet · 09-09-2010 12:11pm

Wisco wrote: »

You also have to remember that any official who starts banging on about deporting illegals is unlikely to get re-elected, except in the southwest of the US, as the relatives of most of the illegals (ie, Hispanics) are a large portion of the voting populace. And anyone who does start in on that topic often gets a giant bashing in the media so the topic isn't too popular, except with the hardliners who want every illegal out of the country ASAP (don't know who would scrub their toilets and cook their burgers after said mass deportation though :rolleyes:)

The cost of dining out and full time child care would become prohobitive. They'll never get rid of the illegals. Its a plantation economy.

fontanalis · 09-09-2010 1:54pm

Zambia232 wrote: »

Welcome to boards Tropo

From your post I assume you are in the states. Do you believe illegal irish should be sent back if caught?

it happens
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Rise-in-numbers-of-undocumented-Irish-being-deported-from-US-66392397.html

fontanalis · 09-09-2010 1:58pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Oh they are everywhere. Usually in kitchens, wait staff or nannies.

Honestly I dont know what NYC would do without its illegal immigrants, between the mexicans and the Irish there is a huge source of cheap labour and it keeps costs down.

There are other nationalities with more people in the US than Ireland. Irish peopel are irelevant in the US in numbers terms.

Zambia · 09-09-2010 2:45pm

fontanalis wrote: »

it happens
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Rise-in-numbers-of-undocumented-Irish-being-deported-from-US-66392397.html

Interesting

The figures, from the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Office, also show that Ireland is now in the top 25 percent of countries whose citizens are deported from the U.S.

Ireland is now number 53 out of 220 countries, up from 67 the year previous

I still dont see anyone volunteering their standpiont on this.

Tropo/Anyone does a child born in the US instantly have the right to stay?

fontanalis · 09-09-2010 2:52pm

Zambia232 wrote: »

Interesting

The figures, from the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Office, also show that Ireland is now in the top 25 percent of countries whose citizens are deported from the U.S.

Ireland is now number 53 out of 220 countries, up from 67 the year previous

I still dont see anyone volunteering their standpiont on this.

Tropo/Anyone does a child born in the US instantly have the right to stay?

Deportations have gone up in the last couple years in general. Regarding children born in the US, that is an issue now I think. Google anchor babies.

The Illegal Irish in the US

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