The Illegal Irish in the US

Zambia

I was viewing another thread and noticed this

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Noticeably absent by many of them was an equally
passionate desire to get the 50,000 criminal Irish living in the U.S. back to
our economy & I hope to see this topic addressed

Now almost every time illegal migration/Asylum Seeking to Ireland is mentioned someone trots out this line. Regarding the thousands of Irish in the US illegally. Pionting to why we dont give off about them. Fact of the matter is we cant as Ireland cannot summon its people back to its shores like dogs at dinner time. Even if we wanted to.

I for one know nobody Irish in the US illegally nor have I ever known of a case. Considering the implications of living in a country without legal status. Example a traffic accident could mean immediate deportation. I dont see how these figures hold up. Is this some mass of people left over from the 80's or what?

I for one submit the Illegal Irish in America are Americas issue and they have every right to deport them as they see fit under their law. Nobody mistakenly breaks migration law for long.

Does anyone disagree with this stand piont and why?

Thanks in Advance
Z

P.S I cant remember how to add a poll

sponsoredwalk

Can't wait to see how passionate people get in defending this move :cool:
I'm sure I'll see the same people who were so adamant about getting those in
Mosney back to Nigeria lusting for this move emphatically, I mean they were
simply following the logic of it all and hardly applying double standards!

Get ready to add an extra 50,000-ish people to the dole queue to eat up
those lovely taxes, I hope someone will be able to find out how many
diaspora are illegally scattered throughout the entire world that await
their place on the dole queue.

ToniTuddle

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Get ready to add an extra 50,000-ish people to the dole queue to eat up
those lovely taxes, I hope someone will be able to find out how many
diaspora are illegally scattered throughout the entire world that await
their place on the dole queue.

I know a good few illegal Irish who would come home but there is nothing left to return to job wise. So they would end up on the dole

If I didn't have my mother here I'd probably be over there myself!

Zambia

Sponsored could you say where you are getting your 50,000 figure from.

sponsoredwalk

My point is that it's utterly ridiculous to expect them to come home.
Imagine how many there are throughout the rest of the world!
The link even shows that the U.S. was going to integrate them officially.
It really pi∫∫e∫ me off when people go off on a tangent about the for'nurs
without realising that if we followed their logic of getting the illegal for'nurs
out of our country & brought ours back we'd be destroyed.

It's just the most rank hypocrisy & if they had their way they'd do far more
damage to our country than the supposed damage all these for'nurs are
doing to us. They want to have it both ways though...

Zambia, I provided a link in my first post to sidestep this very question,
google it as well to find more estimates of that number, I even included the
"ish" to indicate it's still an estimate.

Zambia

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

My point is that it's utterly ridiculous to expect them to come home.
Imagine how many there are throughout the rest of the world!
The link even shows that the U.S. was going to integrate them officially.
It really pi∫∫e∫ me off when people go off on a tangent about the for'nurs
without realising that if we followed their logic of getting the illegal for'nurs
out of our country & brought ours back we'd be destroyed.

It's just the most rank hypocrisy & if they had their way they'd do far more
damage to our country than the supposed damage all these for'nurs are
doing to us. They want to have it both ways though...

Zambia, I provided a link in my first post to sidestep this very question,
google it as well to find more estimates of that number, I even included the
"ish" to indicate it's still an estimate.

Sorry I thought it was just underlined.

We cannot bring back people, we can only decide what happens in our own borders.

Nehaxak

I personally think it all just boils down to ethnic origin. If the vast majority of Irish immigrants to the USA weren't non-english speaking typical looking white people, they'd already have been deported back to Ireland long ago.
Oh and I know plenty of Irish who are there working illegally and have been for years.

mikemac

Yeah, had a friend working illegally until he had appendicitis
Went to hospital, had a consolation and was going to be charged 3k for the procedure.

Yeah, we all blast the HSE but no Irish citizen is going to be left with a similar bill.

Came home, never went back.

Working illegally if all fine but if you have to go to hospital and complete forms then questions get asked.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Mahatma coat

Forget America Zambia, Lets look at our own Shores here in Australia, how many Irish Illegals do you know of here in Australia?


they're fine tho cos they didnt spend Six months in a leaky boat;)

digme

kinda funny reading this thread as loads of mexicans are actually all going home in huge numbers lately,the usa is done!!!!!!!!!

ToniTuddle

digme wrote: »

kinda funny reading this thread as loads of mexicans are actually all going home in huge numbers lately,the usa is done!!!!!!!!!

Maybe that's true but there will just be more to take their place. So numbers kinda balance out I'd say!

Loads of Irish came home during the Celtic Tiger years and all that craic.
Now things have gone bust and another load of relatively young Irish have gone to the US and are staying illegally.

Zambia

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Forget America Zambia, Lets look at our own Shores here in Australia, how many Irish Illegals do you know of here in Australia?


they're fine tho cos they didnt spend Six months in a leaky boat;)

Well I know actually none but I would be very sure they exist in fairly big numbers. We all know that they are on borrowed time who wants to live under that radar all their life.

In essence they either become legit somehow or remain second class residents. Long term its not feasible to be illegal here in Australia.

@Donegalfella I have spent a week in the US. I am sure if I spent a few years there in New York I would know a few. No debate there my experience of illegal irish in the states is scant indication of current figures. All I'm saying is I know of none. No friends ,no friends of friends, no ex colleagues, no ex girlfriends etc

Mahatma coat

thats the Thing Zambia, We're all Fairly sure they Exist, but at the same time I don't know any either. Maybe there are some knockin about in Sydney hangin around Bondi and being Tools, but I havent met any here in Brisbane.

that said if the Dimmi dont get their act together and renew my visa fair sharpish I might just throw me hat at it and go 'on the lam' for a bit:D:D:D

Been nearly 3 months 'Processing' and now they're bul****tin about wantin further Information, if they knew they were gonna require this Info why didnt they ask for it in the first Form :(:(:(:(

troposphere

Well from what I see most of the old time illegals from the 80 & 90's either headed back home during the boom years or ended up getting a green card or citizenship somehow.

Also I have heard that 50,000 figure thrown around for quite a few years now. My guess would be that they pulled it out of you know where.

But the Irish have always been treated differently than the Mexicans and other South Americans. They were a drop in the bucket compared to other illegals even back when there was thousands upon thousands of illegal Irish here in the 1980's & 90's.

They also went to areas like NY & Boston where there was a large number of Irish Americans and the cops and everybody turned a blind eye as long as there was no trouble.

The illegal Hispanics on the other hand, have the problem that there is so many of them here than it is much easier for them to get labeled trouble makers.

The majority of them will just want to work and keep out of trouble but the numbers are so large that the minority that want to cause trouble are easy for people to see.

Even if only a small number of illegal Irish were going around shooting people, stealing, having a bunch of kids and getting section 8 and food stamps, the whole "my great great great grandfather was 1/80th Irish" would get thrown out the window.

But anyway I doubt if large numbers of young Irish people came out here again illegally it would go as well as it did before. They seem to be much more full of themselves, I don't think it would go well.

Zambia

Welcome to boards Tropo

From your post I assume you are in the states. Do you believe illegal irish should be sent back if caught?

ToniTuddle

The plain fact is if the American government or Immigration authority folks wanted the illegal Irish out all they would have to do is visit every Irish bar in New York and Boston at the weekend.


It is that simple and they know it. Yet they don't. I've no idea why though.

troposphere

@Zambia232 - It all depends what they are caught doing. If somebody wants to be dumb and steal a hot dog from a 7-eleven or wants to go around starting fights when they are pissed out of there head then I have no sympathy for them.

But the reality is that most of the time Irish people are generally well liked and are more likely to get out of trouble even more than if a regular American did the same thing.

This all goes out the window when you go outside of the states that you normally associate Irish people with. Those states and anywhere near the borders and being Irish is not going to help you.


@ToniTuddle - I believe it would be illegal to go into a place and start asking for legal status. Even with the law in Arizona that they passed I believe it says they have to have a reason to suspect that the person is illegal and they cannot use race and Mexicans & Mexican Americans can have the same accent, that is why it is such a gray area.

ToniTuddle

troposphere wrote: »

But the reality is that most of the time Irish people are generally well liked and are more likely to get out of trouble even more than if a regular American did the same thing.

This all goes out the window when you go outside of the states that you normally associate Irish people with. Those states and anywhere near the borders and being Irish is not going to help you.

This is most definitely true.

@ToniTuddle - I believe it would be illegal to go into a place and start asking for legal status. Even with the law in Arizona that they passed I believe it says they have to have a reason to suspect that the person is illegal and they cannot use race and Mexicans & Mexican Americans can have the same accent, that is why it is such a gray area.

So why don't they change the law or have some clause in it that allows them to enter the property and question folks? What reason would qualify? They must not be that concerned with illegals.....

Think I read somewhere else about 10,000 Mexicans being deported even though alot/the majority were not trouble makers. Can't remember exactly, it was in a link somewhere on Boards >.<

Even if 50,000 or whatever Irish came back to Ireland and all bought houses and put their money into the banks....the majority would still end up on dole

troposphere

@ToniTuddle - it is actually part of the constitution and even with the backlash against illegal immigration the process of amending the constitution is so complicated I doubt it would ever pass.

4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures without probable cause and the 14th Amendment guarantees that everybody should be treated equally.

This is the whole reason why they cannot racial profile Muslims at airport security (along with what has happened in the past with African Americans) and instead will waste their time patting down old people and searching kids.

From what I understand there is a few ways to get caught being an illegal here;

1) Most obvious, in the border region you have the border patrol who from what I have seen, seem to have different powers. They not only operate at the border but in-land near the border they will set up roadblocks or check trains and buses etc.

2) Get arrested, but even then I believe it all depends on where you get arrested. Some police departments check legal status during booking and others do not.

Really not sure how it all works but I know that some people will get released from jail and be immediately deported and others just get released.

One thing to also consider is that there is even a debate about using road checkpoints here to check for drunk drivers. People start taking about the Nazi's and Gestapo, so while lots of people would not care if illegals were asked for papers, if they started getting asked there would be a big backlash.

Zambia

troposphere wrote: »

@Zambia232 - It all depends what they are caught doing. If somebody wants to be dumb and steal a hot dog from a 7-eleven or wants to go around starting fights when they are pissed out of there head then I have no sympathy for them.

But the reality is that most of the time Irish people are generally well liked and are more likely to get out of trouble even more than if a regular American did the same thing.

By caught I mean discovered by Officials to be Illegally in the country.

Like their company applys for federal contract and submits the detials of the staff that may work on the project to the FBI.

ToniTuddle

troposphere wrote: »

@ToniTuddle - it is actually part of the constitution and even with the backlash against illegal immigration the process of amending the constitution is so complicated I doubt it would ever pass.

4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures without probable cause and the 14th Amendment guarantees that everybody should be treated equally.

From what I understand there is a few ways to get caught being an illegal here;

1) Most obvious, in the border region you have the border patrol who from what I have seen, seem to have different powers. They not only operate at the border but in-land near the border they will set up roadblocks or check trains and buses etc.

Good learning for me here!

Yeah I know about the in-land border thing. When my friend was leaving me at the airport he told me how one of his best mates got caught 100 miles from the border. He said himself how the friend was stupid to have been working anywhere that close-to me 100 miles seems pretty far but guess not!


Out of curiousity....if someone knows about illegals in America and never said anything, can they be someway in trouble with the law? If it's somehow proven they knew about the illegals.

troposphere

@Zambia232 - to be honest not sure how likely that would be. Any company that would be applying for federal contracts would most likely also check all their employees legal status when they are hiring them. There is a verification system that employers can use to check an employee's legal status. From what I understand it would just says this person is not authorized to work and the person should contact DHS to provide more information. Obviously the person would not bother doing that if they were actually illegal.

What can happen is that immigration can conduct investigations of companies where a large number of illegals are believed to be working. They would raid the place and obviously if your illegal you would be locked up but these are normally factories or something like that.

The problem with that is these normally don't go down so well since normally these people are working for low money and have kids and stuff. Different than arresting some illegal for selling drugs or beating his wife.

I know a factory was raided a few years ago around here and the males were sent to Texas or something, the females were sent somewhere else, the kids were put into care or something.

Religious organisations and immigration groups started complaining about it and I believe in the end they had to let the mothers out to take care of the kids, and they let some stay, and others just agreed to be deported.

It gets complicated when the parents are illegal but the kids are citizens.


@ToniTuddle - I don't believe an individual could get in trouble but an employer could if they knowingly employed illegals. But the chances of getting caught are slim to none unless you operate a large company and employ a large number of illegals.

metrovelvet

Zambia232 wrote: »

I was viewing another thread and noticed this



Now almost every time illegal migration/Asylum Seeking to Ireland is mentioned someone trots out this line. Regarding the thousands of Irish in the US illegally. Pionting to why we dont give off about them. Fact of the matter is we cant as Ireland cannot summon its people back to its shores like dogs at dinner time. Even if we wanted to.

I for one know nobody Irish in the US illegally nor have I ever known of a case. Considering the implications of living in a country without legal status. Example a traffic accident could mean immediate deportation. I dont see how these figures hold up. Is this some mass of people left over from the 80's or what?

I for one submit the Illegal Irish in America are Americas issue and they have every right to deport them as they see fit under their law. Nobody mistakenly breaks migration law for long.

Does anyone disagree with this stand piont and why?

Thanks in Advance
Z

P.S I cant remember how to add a poll

Oh they are everywhere. Usually in kitchens, wait staff or nannies.

Honestly I dont know what NYC would do without its illegal immigrants, between the mexicans and the Irish there is a huge source of cheap labour and it keeps costs down.

ToniTuddle

metrovelvet wrote: »

Honestly I dont know what NYC would do without its illegal immigrants, between the mexicans and the Irish there is a huge source of cheap labour and it keeps costs down.

Well that's for sure. Found that out while working there this summer :mad:

Wisco

You also have to remember that any official who starts banging on about deporting illegals is unlikely to get re-elected, except in the southwest of the US, as the relatives of most of the illegals (ie, Hispanics) are a large portion of the voting populace. And anyone who does start in on that topic often gets a giant bashing in the media so the topic isn't too popular, except with the hardliners who want every illegal out of the country ASAP (don't know who would scrub their toilets and cook their burgers after said mass deportation though :rolleyes:)

metrovelvet

Wisco wrote: »

You also have to remember that any official who starts banging on about deporting illegals is unlikely to get re-elected, except in the southwest of the US, as the relatives of most of the illegals (ie, Hispanics) are a large portion of the voting populace. And anyone who does start in on that topic often gets a giant bashing in the media so the topic isn't too popular, except with the hardliners who want every illegal out of the country ASAP (don't know who would scrub their toilets and cook their burgers after said mass deportation though :rolleyes:)

The cost of dining out and full time child care would become prohobitive. They'll never get rid of the illegals. Its a plantation economy.

fontanalis

Zambia232 wrote: »

Welcome to boards Tropo

From your post I assume you are in the states. Do you believe illegal irish should be sent back if caught?

it happens
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Rise-in-numbers-of-undocumented-Irish-being-deported-from-US-66392397.html

fontanalis

metrovelvet wrote: »

Oh they are everywhere. Usually in kitchens, wait staff or nannies.

Honestly I dont know what NYC would do without its illegal immigrants, between the mexicans and the Irish there is a huge source of cheap labour and it keeps costs down.

There are other nationalities with more people in the US than Ireland. Irish peopel are irelevant in the US in numbers terms.

Zambia

fontanalis wrote: »

it happens
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Rise-in-numbers-of-undocumented-Irish-being-deported-from-US-66392397.html

Interesting

The figures, from the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Office, also show that Ireland is now in the top 25 percent of countries whose citizens are deported from the U.S.

Ireland is now number 53 out of 220 countries, up from 67 the year previous

I still dont see anyone volunteering their standpiont on this.

Tropo/Anyone does a child born in the US instantly have the right to stay?

fontanalis

Zambia232 wrote: »

Interesting

The figures, from the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Office, also show that Ireland is now in the top 25 percent of countries whose citizens are deported from the U.S.

Ireland is now number 53 out of 220 countries, up from 67 the year previous

I still dont see anyone volunteering their standpiont on this.

Tropo/Anyone does a child born in the US instantly have the right to stay?

Deportations have gone up in the last couple years in general. Regarding children born in the US, that is an issue now I think. Google anchor babies.

sponsoredwalk

My point in mentioning that little comment the OP quoted as a reason for
starting this post had to do with the very concept of immigration as it
currently stands. I don't know about any of the posters in this thread but
I've come across quite a lot of big talk on boards about getting the
for'nurs out to their own country & stop putting a drain on us. If you want
some justification go to the threads on Mosney as just 1 example that was
particularly bad. People have no right to tell us that this perspective is not
xenophobic unless they are equally adamant about getting all of our
diaspora back onto our shores with just as much passion. It's simply a
double standard to do otherwise.

The interesting aspect of this perspective is that were we to follow this
inane authoritarian logic we would snooker ourselves big time, adding at
least 50,000 people onto the dole registers and on a search for housing
etc... Now America is not the entire world, it would be illogical not to
expect that the rest of the world has plenty of undocumented people.
If Zambia is right that we cannot simply extricate these people on our
own there is nothing that prevents us from putting political pressure on
the U.S. to send the "criminals" back to our shores to pump up the
economy by taking jobs that currently don't exist. Since figures are
important I would extrapolate that number as being 100,000 because
there has been mass emigration since the 70's (in particular) and the inane
logic of these people would easily be extended to guarantee that the
children of those "criminal" diaspora are still Ireland's problem, not country
X's problem.

My point is that Ireland, and France, and the whole bloody world, should
not be so crazy about policies like Immigration until it becomes a problem.
That doesn't mean we deport people back to a country they left for
good reason, nor should it.
Like it or not Europe is becoming integrated in a serious way and moves like
those France, Italy, Slovakia, i.e. those mentioned in the links in this post,
and these parochial/exclusionary border laws need to be seriously
re-evaluated so that those who fall under the hammer of our gloriously
21st century modern policies, like the Roma diaspora, can stop being
forced into modern ghetto's, we can end the strain we put on them
causing them to have a 15 year shorter lifespan than us cosmopolitan
hypocrites.

It's not so difficult to envisage Article's 13 and 14 from the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights being applied a bit more consistently &
less exclusionary by the general population, let alone heads of State.

Article 13.

• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
• (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 14.

• (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
• (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

link

I have no desire to see those in America come home unless they want to,
I would hate to ruin people's lives because of silly antiquaited laws about
imaginary borders that mainly serve to exclude those of us who happen to
be 98-ish% similar in every important way. This policy goes both ways...
If Europe is able to do it among over 20 nations, with many integrating
the Roma minority, then countries like France and Italy shouldn't be
fighting this to go backwards. We as people shouldn't fight it either by
attacking those who come here for a better life & seeing as we're steeped
heavily in it we should be championing imm/em-igration. I think we know
who I'm talking about.

It just so happens that the Irish like to pick on the weak, the little
brown people that nobody cares about whenever they can rather than
critically look at the framework within they work. If our own population
would just grow up and stop trying to drag others down by imposing rules
that can't withstand criticism life would be a lot happier for those who
are forced to travel to seek a better life. Just read about what the Roma
population face when they return to their respective countries, how they
see a few euro begging a day as a better life than that they experience
at home! If people were to look at the Roma on our streets as humans
and use that horribly altruistic trait known as empathy I think things
would be very different. It's a similar question with Nigeria and many
countries in the World. I believe our own nation was put to the task in
the 1800's fighting a "no dogs, no Irish" policy but the victims have now
become the oppressors. Will we ever learn :rolleyes: How many cyclic patterns
will we have to go through before we realise that those concepts of
equality that have been preached time and again throughout history
are not just suits to don when it becomes fashionable...?

I'm not trying to scold anyone in this post I'm just trying to convey the
way I see things & hopefully we can get some constructive conversation
on this, on how Europe should actually be worked, as opposed to one line
rants on the for'nurs who are the evil that dare not speak it's name...

Overheal

Ireland's diplomatic ties have a lot to do with it. The only annually maintained dilomatic meeting that I am aware of happens between the POTUS and the Taoiseach every year on March 17th; the discussion regularly revolving around immigration issues. And Cultural ties between Ireland and the US are at least as strong as the political ties.

opo

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

My point in mentioning that little comment the OP quoted as a reason for
starting this post had to do with the very concept of immigration as it
currently stands. I don't know about any of the posters in this thread but
I've come across quite a lot of big talk on boards about getting the
for'nurs out to their own country & stop putting a drain on us. If you want
some justification go to the threads on Mosney as just 1 example that was
particularly bad. People have no right to tell us that this perspective is not
xenophobic unless they are equally adamant about getting all of our
diaspora back onto our shores with just as much passion. It's simply a
double standard to do otherwise...

(rant cut)

Please link to a couple of posts where individuals advocated removing illegal immigrants from Ireland - whilst simultaneously denying other countries right to do so (never mind your spin that they should be absolutely raving about it). Must be plenty according to your repetitive assertions and I for one would enjoy reading a few of them for the inexplicable logic.

Please also explain your little obsession with the word for'nurs. I fail to see your point or are you immaturely trying to caricature someone or perhaps a group of people in the negative? like those nasty racists do?

A few links to people (other than your good self) using this word on Boards as you have suggested would be interesting.......

Zambia

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

If Zambia is right that we cannot simply extricate these people on our
own there is nothing that prevents us from putting political pressure on
the U.S. to send the "criminals" back to our shores to pump up the
economy by taking jobs that currently don't exist.

Why would we do that ?? We have no legal basis for telling the US how to control their migration laws. Any pressure would be seen as an interferance.

Each country controls its own borders thats the only way it works.

There are several other pionts in your post that would bring us way OT

That post was very hard to read btw. I consider boards a leisurely past time and really long posts tend to make me zone out.

lonestargirl

In terms of border patrol being able to ask for proof of legal status within 100 miles of the border almost 2/3 of the US population lives within 100 miles of a land/coastal border.



Children cannot sponsor their parents for green cards until the child turns 21, there have been some instances of immigration judges declining to deport the parent of a US citizen but not-deporting is not equal to giving legal status. I am legally in the US but my visa does not provide a path to permament residency for me, however the baby I'm expecting will be born with dual-citizenship (my husband is Irish too).

I don't know any illegal Irish but I know plently of Mexicans/South Americans, the hospitality industry would fall over without them. If you are a new illegal immigrant life will be very difficult, someone who came over in the 80's probably has a driver's licence, bank account, SSN etc. Nowadays you have to proove legal status to get a driver's licence in most states, I only get a 1-year licence and have to go back each year with my immigration documents to renew it. My Employment Authorisation Card can act as proof of my legal status and I do keep it in my wallet at all times, it did in fact see a ICE field enforcement car parked around the corner from my house last week!

sponsoredwalk

opo wrote: »

(rant cut)

Please link to a couple of posts where individuals advocated removing illegal immigrants from Ireland - whilst simultaneously denying other countries right to do so

Here is a nice 86 page thread that particularly ticked me off a while ago
due to the passion with which those for'nurs were charged with destroying
our country, and here is a whole 29 pages of interesting logic for you on
the topic of the Roma. If you have some questions about this thread then
I'd advise you to read both the posts and links in this thread
first. Here is the freshest discussion on this novel topic.
All you need do is scour the AH forum or many areas of the politics forum
to find similar humanistic sentiments from those fellow bipedal hominidae on
those who, unfortunately, failed to be born inside imaginary borders that
contained less poverty and war.

opo wrote: »

I for one would enjoy reading a few of them for the inexplicable logic.

Enjoy it, I didn't find it particularly heart warming

opo wrote: »

Please also explain your little obsession with the word for'nurs. I fail to see your point or are you immaturely trying to caricature someone or perhaps a group of people in the negative? like those nasty racists do?

A few links to people (other than your good self) using this word on Boards as you have suggested would be interesting.......

I think it's fairly obvious how I'm using the word & the negative
connotations are obvious, I think we may as well illustrate the parochial
attitudes grammatically in order to convey the sophistication of that which
I am arguing against. I have no problem calling a spade a spade, in my own
way

Zambia232 wrote: »

Why would we do that ?? We have no legal basis for telling the US how to control their migration laws. Any pressure would be seen as an interferance.

Our citizens are illegally in another country, I think we can request that
another government return workers who should be paying their taxes
to fill up the coffers that we need to prepare to funnel into the other
banks :P After all, they're just workers, hardly anything else :pac:

I like the point about the value of Mexican workers as lonestargirl pointed
out, her point is a far grander one than just hospitality, the terror of
immigrants is a historical fact of humanity & is responsible for far more
good than bad. In fact I'd love to read all those case studies of immigrants
ruining a country and weighing the statistics of that with the statistics
on how immigration has pumped up countries and economies in times of
need. I mean we don't want to contribute to double standards, as
members & leaders of the free world, by enjoying the benefits of
immigrants when it suits us and condemning them when we feel like it.

Zambia232 wrote: »

That post was very hard to read btw. I consider boards a leisurely past time and really long posts tend to make me zone out.

I'm sorry if my posts are hard to read :P I haven't forced you to read what
I've wrote so you shouldn't feel compelled to read/reply :P;)

Zambia

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Our citizens are illegally in another country, I think we can request that
another government return workers who should be paying their taxes
to fill up the coffers that we need to prepare to funnel into the other
banks :P After all, they're just workers, hardly anything else :pac:

On the first case , no we cant request the return of our citizens. Its a matter of jurisdiction we have none outside Ireland.

If Good Luck rang Cowan in the morning and requested the return of all Nigerians illegal in Ireland he could not do it without due process.

caseyann

Easy send back 50 thousand non Irish and bring home the illegal Irish.Welcome home guys

opo

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Here is a nice 86 page thread that particularly ticked me off a while ago
due to the passion with which those for'nurs were charged with destroying
our country, and here is a whole 29 pages of interesting logic for you on
the topic of the Roma. If you have some questions about this thread then
I'd advise you to read both the posts and links in this thread
first. Here is the freshest discussion on this novel topic.
All you need do is scour the AH forum or many areas of the politics forum
to find similar humanistic sentiments from those fellow bipedal hominidae on
those who, unfortunately, failed to be born inside imaginary borders that
contained less poverty and war.

I didn’t ask for links to threads or entire sub-forums. Also – this is Politics and not AH. There is a substantial difference even though you appear unable to discern what that difference is.

I suspect that having built your strawman argument – you are far too busy smashing it down to bother with facts or concentrate on what people are really saying.

I think it's fairly obvious how I'm using the word & the negative
connotations are obvious, I think we may as well illustrate the parochial
attitudes grammatically in order to convey the sophistication of that which
I am arguing against. I have no problem calling a spade a spade, in my own
way

May I assume your strawman is some imaginary working class type that lacks your great skills of articulation (not to mention your self confessed sophistication)?

sponsoredwalk

opo wrote: »

I didn’t ask for links to threads or entire sub-forums.

opo wrote: »

Please link to a couple of posts where individuals advocated removing
illegal immigrants from Ireland

:rolleyes:

I gave you what you asked for, "links to a couple of posts", now you've
changed the rules in order to discredit me. I did predict you'd do this but
refrained from instantly replying with that accusatory tone. I'm glad
you've tripped yourself up with your own words. Basically you're more
interested in discrediting me than listening to what I'm saying.

I give you what you asked for yet you accuse me of building strawmen,
talk about dishonest. Notice I have posts that I gave you, which is what you've asked for,
so that I actually have reasons to base my conclusions on & can show you to judge for yourself.
You've provided very little to indicate what everyone "is really saying"...

opo wrote: »

(rant cut)

Please link to a couple of posts where individuals advocated removing illegal immigrants from Ireland

If you had read "my rant" instead of cutting it you would have fathomed
the point I was trying to make so please don't come on here accusing me
of straw men and ignorance when you can't even refer to your own words
correctly, let alone use this confusion to slander me properly.

If I was too busy ignoring facts why would I be linking everything important
that I've said to posts or documents? Can you explain that?

opo

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

If I was too busy ignoring facts why would I be linking everything important
that I've said to posts or documents? Can you explain that?

I'm guessing that having constructed your strawman (that for'nur guy that you cannot link to) you are attempting some disjointed argument that consists of non sequiturs (such as your bizzare notion that those who advocate immigration controls should be "lusting" for illegal Irish to come) and random musings such as your talk of "imaginary borders".

You talk in one post about illegal Irish coming home to go on the dole and another that seems to think they will come home and save the banks.

On top of this there are third party links to whatever seems to float your boat at the time.

I'm sure there is a point in this multi-faceted mess but I cannot for the life of me work out what it is.

sponsoredwalk

This has to be a joke...? I mean trolling has it's limits but the fact you are
taking the small jokes I make in my posts as the serious stuff speaks
volumes man. If you can't, for the life of you, figure out a point in my
posts then why are you wasting everyone's time on here? I mean disrupting
a conversation by focusing on the trivial stuff is taken as one definition of
trolling and all we have you doing here is focusing on jokes of comments
and jokes of mine you obviously don't find funny and ignore all my talk
of Roma, and France, and the U.S. and how immigration is a ridiculous
concept that could potentially make everyone far worse off.

Asking for a link for "for'nurs", I mean what age are you? If you seriously
don't understand what I mean everytime I mention that then you'll never
understand, but you wont find that in a link on the internet, it's not on
wikipedia yet :rolleyes: And about the banks, I mean have you got the literary
concept of irony down yet? I know what one person calls a witticism
another calls dirt but you taking those comments as serious shows you
haven't been reading my posts at all and have instead been feeding
your own biases on this fishing trip of yours through my posts for the
little things you want to pick out to use against me.

Twice now have we got you caught out, first changing the ground rules
midstream about looking for posts to back up my claims and second about
my bad jokes, that you take them as serious. Reading someone's post
entails more than fishing for the things you're going to use to attempt to
make someone look foolish. You still haven't got that down so unless
you're willing to apologise for attempting to make me out to be just
rambling, as you've claimed despite me giving you all the evidence in the
world I'm not, I'll just report you because you're just derailing the thread
to feed your own biases and I'm not interested in you trying to appear
noble despite you constantly slipping up on the fundamentals...

And I like how you've ignored all that talk about my links as not
being what you'd asked for. Have you gotten your answer from
my response or is it still not to your satisfaction? What are the
current ground rules on that oh-so important question you put
to me a minute ago?

opo

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

This has to be a joke...? I mean trolling has it's limits but the fact you are
taking the small jokes I make in my posts as the serious stuff speaks
volumes man. If you can't, for the life of you, figure out a point in my
posts then why are you wasting everyone's time on here? I mean disrupting
a conversation by focusing on the trivial stuff is taken as one definition of
trolling and all we have you doing here is focusing on jokes of comments
and jokes of mine you obviously don't find funny and ignore all my talk
of Roma, and France, and the U.S. and how immigration is a ridiculous
concept that could potentially make everyone far worse off.

I don't want to upset all of you. Maybe if ye got together and agreed what ye are talking about, it would all stack up.

Nirnias

Maybe someone here can help me.

Friend of mine moved over to the US with some guy, she was supposed to only stay there for 2 months but she stayed longer and her passport and visa have both expired, things didnt work out with the guy and he is ruining her life according to her, taking her suitcase and stuff and her money and trying to control where she goes.

She wants to move back to here to Ireland but has no money, the guy is appearently manipulating her and abusing her (dunno if this is physically or anything). Anyway she talked to the embassy over their but they were not willing to pay for her flight home.

Now i was thinking to myself, surely if she is an illegal immigrant in the US, she will get deported once she declares herself, i know that if she declares herself before 180 days have passed since her visa expiration she will only be banned from entering the US for 3 years or so.

But how does she get out of the country with no money and support? She said that they wont just deport her. Anywhere here shed some light?

troposphere

If she was in the Boston area there is the Irish Pastoral Center that would give her advice. Probably would be able to give advice over the phone or email even if she was somewhere else.

Deportation is a legal process, it is not like you show up and say you want to go home. There is the Scheduled Departure Program but that is for people who have already received orders to leave the country to show up and be deported without getting locked up.

My advice would be for her to get her family or friends to buy her a ticket home or for her to find a job as a live in nanny or something and stay for a few months and then purchase her own ticket home.

If she was really in fear for her safety she could contact a domesic violence group and many of them groups have temporary accomodation

metrovelvet

Nirnias wrote: »

Maybe someone here can help me.

Friend of mine moved over to the US with some guy, she was supposed to only stay there for 2 months but she stayed longer and her passport and visa have both expired, things didnt work out with the guy and he is ruining her life according to her, taking her suitcase and stuff and her money and trying to control where she goes.

She wants to move back to here to Ireland but has no money, the guy is appearently manipulating her and abusing her (dunno if this is physically or anything). Anyway she talked to the embassy over their but they were not willing to pay for her flight home.

Now i was thinking to myself, surely if she is an illegal immigrant in the US, she will get deported once she declares herself, i know that if she declares herself before 180 days have passed since her visa expiration she will only be banned from entering the US for 3 years or so.

But how does she get out of the country with no money and support? She said that they wont just deport her. Anywhere here shed some light?

If she is in Boston or NY there are lots of irish immigrant centres for illegals who can help her.

Can you pay for her ticket? One ways are not expensive.

Nirnias

Actually she is in the Boston area. thats weird what are the chances of that. She said she was an hour or two outside Boston.

Me and my friend dont have a problem paying for her ticket home. But were not gunna send it to her. Reason why her mother wont help her is cause she asked for 500 euro off her mother and she then loaned it to this guy who now refuses to give it back to her as well as her stuff. (stupid i know)

The only way me and my friend are willing to bring her back is if we go over and bring her back ourselves. That way we know she is coming back and not being manipulated by this guy.

Being a student im reluctant to buy a return trip to Boston for 24 hours ha. but if worse comes to worse we will do it. Im always hearing about people getting deported, and iv known people from my time in London that got deported so i thought if she declared herself they would ship her out, but what you said makes sense. Cant expect them to just ship her out free.

troposphere

Her parents could also call the local police station where she is living and tell them the situation and that they are worried that the guy is taking advantage of her.

They would go out and do a well-being check on your friend. Nobody gets arrested or anything they just talk and normally the guy gets scared. He might even buy the ticket for her after that.

caseyann

Nirnias wrote: »

Actually she is in the Boston area. thats weird what are the chances of that. She said she was an hour or two outside Boston.

Me and my friend dont have a problem paying for her ticket home. But were not gunna send it to her. Reason why her mother wont help her is cause she asked for 500 euro off her mother and she then loaned it to this guy who now refuses to give it back to her as well as her stuff. (stupid i know)

The only way me and my friend are willing to bring her back is if we go over and bring her back ourselves. That way we know she is coming back and not being manipulated by this guy.

Being a student im reluctant to buy a return trip to Boston for 24 hours ha. but if worse comes to worse we will do it. Im always hearing about people getting deported, and iv known people from my time in London that got deported so i thought if she declared herself they would ship her out, but what you said makes sense. Cant expect them to just ship her out free.

From what i know,they will give her a ticket and she has to pay them back if she declares stranded,or else you can buy the ticket and have it at desk when she gets there to airport.

southsiderosie

Estimates for illegal Irish in the US vary from around 25,000 to 50,000. (and the hyperlinked article for the 50,000 figure gives an interesting perspective on Irish vs. Hispanic illegal immigrants).

ToniTuddle wrote: »

This is most definitely true.

So why don't they change the law or have some clause in it that allows them to enter the property and question folks? What reason would qualify? They must not be that concerned with illegals.....

troposphere wrote: »

One thing to also consider is that there is even a debate about using road checkpoints here to check for drunk drivers. People start taking about the Nazi's and Gestapo, so while lots of people would not care if illegals were asked for papers, if they started getting asked there would be a big backlash.

Because the US does not have a national ID card system, and some states allow (or used to allow) undocumented immigrants to get a drivers license, it is very hard to have a system that relies on on-demand proof of documentation.

Zambia232 wrote: »

Tropo/Anyone does a child born in the US instantly have the right to stay?

Any child born in US territory automatically gets US citizenship. This has nothing to do with the parents, although many pro-immigration groups claim that the parents should be entitled to stay because deporting them would be denying US citizens the right to grow up there; in essence, the US would be deporting its own (minor) citizens by sending the parents home.

troposphere wrote: »

Her parents could also call the local police station where she is living and tell them the situation and that they are worried that the guy is taking advantage of her.

They would go out and do a well-being check on your friend. Nobody gets arrested or anything they just talk and normally the guy gets scared. He might even buy the ticket for her after that.

This is basically why local police officers do not ask about immigration status in most cities - because they want immigrants to call them if there is a problem. If people are worried that they are going to be deported for calling the police, they are less likely to report crime.