Israeli Secret Service asked to inspect Irish passport production facility

RATM · 22-05-2010 11:57am #1

This story just gets more weird. It turns out the Israeli Secret Service asked for an inspection trip to an Irish Passport facility in Balbriggan before they carried out the hit in Dubai.

Full article
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/israelis-asked-to-visit-passport-plant-here-before-dubai-killing-2190468.html

ISRAELI officials asked to inspect the Dublin plant where security-enhanced passports are made -- just a month before a Middle East assassination by agents using forged Irish documents.

A serious diplomatic incident was looming last night after a top-level report concluded that an Israeli intelligence agency forged the Irish passports used in the murder of a Hamas operative in Dubai in January.

The Department of Foreign Affairs believes that an Israeli state agency provided the eight forged Irish passports used by agents involved in the assassination of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh.

The sensational charges against the Israelis are understood to be detailed in a report submitted earlier this week by the Irish Passport Service to Minister Micheal Martin.

However, it is also understood that none of the findings could be proven beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law.

Up to 27 people were suspected of involvement in the murder of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel on January 19. Three fraudulent Australian passports, four French, 12 British, one German and eight Irish passports were used in the killing.

The genuine Irish passports -- whose numbers had been used in the forged passports -- had been though frontiers in Europe and the United States, but not in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, it emerged last night that the Israeli Foreign Service approached the Department of Foreign Affairs in the run-up to Christmas to say it was very impressed by the sophistication of the new Irish passports and their in-built biometric components.

The Israelis asked if they could send a small team to examine the DFA's manufacturing plant in Balbriggan, Co Dublin, where a new biometric security feature was built into the passports.

The request was refused.

"After the killing in Dubai, one of the bosses here said whoever refused the Israelis getting into the passport plant should be promoted," a source within the department said yesterday.

A spokesman for Micheal Martin declined to comment.

However, a senior and reliable source in the department said: "Our conclusion is much the same as that of the British. We're not looking for anybody else."

Overheal · 22-05-2010 12:11pm

Mr Burns: See with your eyes, not with your hands!
Fidel Castro: Please! We are all amigos here!
Homer: Mr. Burns, I think we can trust the President of Cuba!
(Mr. Burns reluctantly hands over the $1 Trillion bill)
Mr. Burns: Now give it back.
Fidel Castro: Give what back?

UltimateMale · 22-05-2010 12:53pm

RATM wrote: »

This story just gets more weird. It turns out the Israeli Secret Service asked for an inspection trip to an Irish Passport facility in Balbriggan before they carried out the hit in Dubai.

Full article
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/israelis-asked-to-visit-passport-plant-here-before-dubai-killing-2190468.html

We should expel those bums the Isreali's. Their only parasites and murderers.

Nodin · 22-05-2010 2:51pm

UltimateMale wrote: »

We should expel those bums the Isreali's. Their only parasites and murderers.

...doesn't really further the debate, tbh. Not all Israelis support the activities of their state.

gizmo555 · 22-05-2010 5:01pm

UltimateMale wrote: »

We should expel those bums the Isreali's. Their only parasites and murderers.

Nodin wrote: »

...doesn't really further the debate, tbh. Not all Israelis support the activities of their state.

OK, how about we should expel those bums, the diplomatic representatives of the murdering Israeli state which put our citizens at risk throughout the Middle East by forging our passports for use in an assasination?

Nodin · 22-05-2010 7:02pm

Thats fair enough.

FlutterinBantam · 22-05-2010 7:08pm

gizmo555 wrote: »

OK, how about we should expel those bums, the diplomatic representatives of the murdering Israeli state which put our citizens at risk throughout the Middle East by forging our passports for use in an assasination?

Who would you take along with them?

Iran?
Syria?

Qualitymark · 22-05-2010 7:11pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Who would you take along with them?

Iran?
Syria?

Iran and Syria have forged our passports too? Really?

anymore · 22-05-2010 7:16pm

gizmo555 wrote: »

OK, how about we should expel those bums, the diplomatic representatives of the murdering Israeli state which put our citizens at risk throughout the Middle East by forging our passports for use in an assasination?

As opposed to our Government which has Shannon airport used as a transit point for both the US military and for CIA flights !

FlutterinBantam · 22-05-2010 7:23pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

Iran and Syria have forged our passports too? Really?

Well, maybe not, they wouldn't have the intelligence.

But they have murdered plenty of people:cool:

Amalgam · 22-05-2010 7:24pm

You're all getting upset over nothing. A film on the telly taught me the following..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX-J6lcZZw4

Riddle101 · 22-05-2010 10:17pm

What I want to know is how have the other countries reacted to this? Ireland only had eight passports forged, but you've also got the ones from Germany, Austria, Britian, France etc.

digme · 22-05-2010 11:35pm

I hate the Israeli government,sick ****ers.
To forge our nation passports like that and kill another human is pretty bloody serious,fair play to the person who refused their sneaky trip.

Elevator · 23-05-2010 12:09am

*queues ryanair offering 90k cheap seat to israel, oh wait sure we can't get a passport in this country right now...

gizmo555 · 23-05-2010 8:05am

Riddle101 wrote: »

What I want to know is how have the other countries reacted to this? Ireland only had eight passports forged, but you've also got the ones from Germany, Austria, Britian, France etc.

Britain expelled an Israeli diplomat, who according to this report in The Times, was actually a resident Mossad agent in London, working there with the knowledge and cooperation of the British.

wes · 23-05-2010 8:25am

The Israeli gov looking more and more guilty. We should follow the British, and expel a diplomat.

Nodin · 23-05-2010 8:59am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Well, maybe not, they wouldn't have the intelligence.

But they have murdered plenty of people:cool:

I'm sorry, but are you implying Syrians and Iranians are somehow below normal in intellectual ability? Please explain.

DeVore · 23-05-2010 9:16am

I'm presuming he means the intelligence operatives etc.

I think we should expel a few diplomats just to shake a stick at the Israelis.

DeV.

anymore · 23-05-2010 11:36am

DeVore wrote: »

I'm presuming he means the intelligence operatives etc.

I think we should expel a few diplomats just to shake a stick at the Israelis.

DeV.

The reason Irish passports are so useful to foreign governments is that Minister martin refuses to make our passports more difficult to forge according to a report by Phoenix a few months ago.

Apart from forgery anyway Irish Governments sell irish passports to wealthy foreigners anyway so Irish Citizenship is a commodity like anyother - hard to see why foreign governments would have any respect for irish passports - we obivously dont.-

FlutterinBantam · 23-05-2010 12:02pm

DeVore wrote: »

I'm presuming he means the intelligence operatives etc.

I think we should expel a few diplomats just to shake a stick at the Israelis.

DeV.

Exactly!

Sorry you had to waste your time spelling it out for these guys D.

You must be a busy man.

Appreciate that.

anymore · 23-05-2010 12:09pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Exactly!

Sorry you had to waste your time spelling it out for these guys D.

You must be a busy man.

Appreciate that.

Ahem ! we didnt vote to refuse Israel entry into the OECD recently

FlutterinBantam · 23-05-2010 12:28pm

anymore wrote: »

Ahem ! we didnt vote to refuse Israel entry into the OECD recently

It was the intelligence bit I was referring to......:D

I don't condone the other sentiments.

Careless of me sorry.

IH77 · 24-05-2010 7:04am

Riddle101 wrote: »

What I want to know is how have the other countries reacted to this? Ireland only had eight passports forged, but you've also got the ones from Germany, Austria, Britian, France etc.

The Australian's have now expelled a diplomat:

Israeli diplomat expelled over fake passport affair

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/24/2907598.htm

The Federal Government is expelling an Israeli diplomat after it found Israel faked Australian passports that were used in a hit on a top Hamas leader in Dubai.

Foreign Minister Stephen Smith today condemned the fraud as "not the act of a friend" and a clear affront to Australia that cannot be tolerated.

"This is not what we expect from a nation with whom we have had such a close, friendly and supportive relationship," he said.

In February several forged Australian passports were used in the assassination of Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Mabhouh.

Mr Smith confirmed investigations by Australian Federal Police, ASIO and ASIS showed Israel fabricated the passports of four Australians who also had Israeli nationality.

"The high quality of these counterfeited passports points to involvement of a state intelligence service," he said.

"These investigations and advice have left the Australian Government in no doubt that Israel was responsible for the abuse and counterfeiting of these passports."

The Department of Foreign Affairs summoned the Charge D'affairs to request that it remove one of its diplomats within the week.

"The Government takes this step much more in sorrow than anger or retaliation," Mr Smith said.

"It is a decision taken in our national security interest.

"The department conveyed the Government's deep disappointment over Israel's involvement in this affair."

The diplomat who has been expelled has not been named and it is not known whether they will return or be replaced at a later stage.

Mr Smith said Australia would now work on rebuilding its relationship and reminded Israel friendship was a "two-way street".

He also said Israel should realise it is on notice that if it again fabricates Australian passports similar or stronger action would be taken.

When asked if Israel had acknowledged its part in the affair or had apologised, Mr Smith replied: "In terms of the substance of these matters Israel has not been drawn in those conversations or drawn on those matters."

Consular assistance

Nicole McCabe, Joshua Bruce, Adam Korman and Joshua Krycer have been named as the Australians whose passports were forged. All four live in Israel.

Mr Smith says replacement passports have been issued and consular assistance is still being provided to the four Australians.

An Australian Federal Police (AFP) team travelled to Israel to investigate the matter as well as the director-general of ASIO earlier this month.

Dubai authorities had said they were almost 100 per cent certain the Israeli spy agency, Mossad, was responsible for the hit.

Dubai claimed the assassins also used Irish, French and German passports to travel through the state.

Israel has maintained there is no proof it was behind the assassination.

Earlier this year, Britain expelled an Israeli diplomat after an investigation by its Serious Organised Crime Agency found that 12 forged British passports used in the assassination were copied from real documents.

It said the copies were made after the passports were handed over for inspection "to individuals linked to Israel"

.

Pittens · 24-05-2010 8:44am

Its the whole Israeli diplomats are Mossad which ha SHOCKED me!

anymore · 24-05-2010 9:33am

Let me ask a question(s) ;

how many people are subject to rigorous scrutiny at irish airports because of the danger they might be israeli terrorists plotting to blow up the plane ?
How many of us are subject to rigorous scrutiny at Irish Airports becasue of the danger we might be Islamic terrorists plotting to blow up the plane ?

Answer to one is zero
Answer to two is all of us
So which should we be most concerned about: passports or terrorism ?

BluePlanet · 24-05-2010 9:47am

I vote to Expel a Diplomat.
Preferrably the highest one.

anymore · 24-05-2010 10:24am

BluePlanet wrote: »

I vote to Expel a Diplomat.
Preferrably the highest one.

Why would we expel a diplomat from a country which we allowed to just join the OECD ? We had a veto which we didnt exercise

:p

Lets start getting some connection with reality here !

gandalf · 24-05-2010 10:25am

anymore wrote: »

Let me ask a question(s) ;
how many people are subject to rigorous scrutiny at irish airports because of the danger they might be israeli terrorists plotting to blow up the plane ?

How many of us are subject to rigorous scrutiny at Irish Airports becasue of the danger we might be Islamic terrorists plotting to blow up the plane ?

Answer to one is zero
Answer to two is all of us
So which should we be most concerned about: passports or terrorism ?

Let me respond with travelling on an Irish passport is a privilege open only to Irish Citizens. Israeli actions by forging Irish passports puts our citizens in danger when they shouldn't be.

The only course of action is to expel a diplomat from the Israeli embassy and look at additional sanctions to let them know they cannot cheapen the protection an Irish Passport provides.

If we do nothing it will happen again.

anymore · 24-05-2010 10:29am

deadtiger wrote: »

Let me respond with travelling on an Irish passport is a privilege open only to Irish Citizens. Israeli actions by forging Irish passports puts our citizens in danger when they shouldn't be.

The only course of action is to expel a diplomat from the Israeli embassy and look at additional sanctions to let them know they cannot cheapen the protection an Irish Passport provides.

If we do nothing it will happen again.

Let me respond;Ireland puts its passports up for sale - Lets expel the Politicians who have prostituted irish citizenship !

gandalf · 24-05-2010 10:34am

anymore wrote: »

Let me respond;Ireland puts its passports up for sale - Lets expel the Politicians who have prostituted irish citizenship !

Nice sound bite. It still doesn't excuse Israel from the crime that they have committed.

If this situation was reversed can you even imagine what the response from Tel Aviv would be?

anymore · 24-05-2010 10:46am

deadtiger wrote: »

Nice sound bite. It still doesn't excuse Israel from the crime that they have committed.

If this situation was reversed can you even imagine what the response from Tel Aviv would be?

What crime - killing a terrorist ?

gandalf · 24-05-2010 11:07am

anymore wrote: »

What crime - killing a terrorist ?

Lets list them.

Creating Forged Irish Passports.

Using the forged passports to gain entry to another country.

Murdering someone in a hotel room.

Several Crimes for the price of one.

Did I miss any?

nacho libre · 24-05-2010 11:13am

anymore wrote: »

What crime - killing a terrorist ?

would you be posing this same question if the Lebanese or Iranian intelligence services had killed a senior figure in a terrorist organisation, in another country, while using Irish passports as part of the operation?

OhNoYouDidn't · 24-05-2010 11:14am

anymore wrote: »

Let me ask a question(s) ;
how many people are subject to rigorous scrutiny at irish airports because of the danger they might be israeli terrorists plotting to blow up the plane ?

How many of us are subject to rigorous scrutiny at Irish Airports becasue of the danger we might be Islamic terrorists plotting to blow up the plane ?

Answer to one is zero
Answer to two is all of us
So which should we be most concerned about: passports or terrorism ?

A complete strawman.

anymore · 24-05-2010 11:18am

nacho libre wrote: »

would you be posing this same question if the Lebanese or Iranian intelligence services had killed a senior figure in a terrorist organisation, in another country, while using Irish passports as part of the operation?

It would probably raise the same level of interest as in this case - as i say israel has not caused me to be treated like an Islamic terorist everytime i pass through an airport, anywhere in the world.
I am sure israel is not the only country which uses irish passports - Phoenix magazine has previousuly outlined how relatively easy Irish passports are to forge and how thje Gov has ignored this.
Indeed i am sure that there a few intellignce agencies have people who legitimately can clim irish passportd because of ancestry provisions - whoi knows what they do with them ?

OhNoYouDidn't · 24-05-2010 11:19am

anymore wrote: »

It would probably raise the same level of interest as in this case - as i say israel has not caused me to be treated like an Islamic terorist everytime i pass through an airport, anywhere in the world.
I am sure israel is not the only country which uses irish passports - Phoenix magazine has previousuly outlined how relatively easy Irish passports are to forge and how thje Gov has ignored this.
Indeed i am sure that there a few intellignce agencies have people who legitimately can clim irish passportd because of ancestry provisions - whoi knows what they do with them ?

So what? What happened here was still wrong, and Britain, Australia and France have all reacted. So should we.

anymore · 24-05-2010 11:20am

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

A complete strawman.

I dont think the increasing hassle going through airports and the punitive prohibitions are strawmen - do you ?

gandalf · 24-05-2010 11:25am

anymore wrote: »

Indeed i am sure that there a few intellignce agencies have people who legitimately can clim irish passportd because of ancestry provisions - whoi knows what they do with them ?

That may be true but we know what Israelis did with those passports.

They used them in a assassination operation in another state masquarading as citizens of Ireland and several other countries.

Israel is supposed to be a country that we have good diplomatic relations with and this kind of activity is one I would expect of a rogue state like North Korea with no standing in the International Community.

No matter what way you spin it my friend the actions were wrong and disrespectful of Ireland and its citizens.

OhNoYouDidn't · 24-05-2010 11:29am

anymore wrote: »

I dont think the increasing hassle going through airports and the punitive prohibitions are strawmen - do you ?

No, but they are entirely irrelevant to whether the State should react diplomatically to the incident.

nacho libre · 24-05-2010 11:31am

anymore wrote: »

It would probably raise the same level of interest as in this case - as i say israel has not caused me to be treated like an Islamic terorist everytime i pass through an airport, anywhere in the world.
I am sure israel is not the only country which uses irish passports - Phoenix magazine has previousuly outlined how relatively easy Irish passports are to forge and how thje Gov has ignored this.
Indeed i am sure that there a few intellignce agencies have people who legitimately can clim irish passportd because of ancestry provisions - whoi knows what they do with them ?

so you really don't see a problem with it regardless of which country is doing it. well at least you are being consistent.

i have to laugh at the bare faced cheek of mossad to want to look at the facility in Balbriggan. they'll never be cowered, because if we remember back to the mossad plot to kill two of the palestinians from the siege of the nativity, which was foiled, they gave assurances to the Irish state that they'd behave from them on. so the only lesson they'll take from this current situation, is to be even more efficient in future so as to avoid unwanted scrutiny.

anymore · 24-05-2010 11:33am

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So what? What happened here was still wrong, and Britain, Australia and France have all reacted. So should we.

Yes they have all reacted by welcoming Israel with open arms into the OECD ! Did you not see the thread ?
The UK has provided arms and training to some of the vilest regimes in the world. France delibrately stood by and allowed the denocide in Rwanda to proceed. The UN withdrew UN troops in the full knowledge that the people they were protecting would be slaughtered !
Do you think the public fuss they made over this incident was for any reason other than PR ?
Israel is an ally of the West.

gandalf · 24-05-2010 11:40am

anymore wrote: »

Yes they have all reacted by opening Israel with open arms into the OECD ! Did you not see the thread ?
The UK has provided arms and training to some of the vilest regimes in the world. France delibrately stood by and allowed the denocide in Rwanda to proceed. The UN withdrew UN troops in the full knowledge that the people they were protecting would be slaughtered !
Do you think the public fuss they made over this incident was for any reason other than PR ?

What have these got to do with the topic in hand.

Do you agree that it was wrong for Israel to forge Irish passports yes or no?

Do you agree that it was wrong for Israelis to use forged Irish Passports to gain entrance to another country yes or no?

Do you agree that it was wrong for these people to carry out a murder while pretending to be Irish and citizens from other countries, yes or no?

Everything else you have above is deflecting from the question.

anymore · 24-05-2010 11:45am

nacho libre wrote: »

so you really don't see a problem with it regardless of which country is doing it. well at least you are being consistent.

i have to laugh at the bare faced cheek of mossad to want to look at the facility in Balbriggan. they'll never be cowered, because if we remember back to the mossad plot, to kill two of the palestinians from the siege of the nativity, which was foiled, they gave assurances to the Irish state that they'd behave from them on. so the only lesson they'll take from this current situastion, is to be even more efficient in future so as to avoid unwanted scrutiny.

Dont blame Mossaad because ireland is Governed by idiots !

Nodin · 24-05-2010 11:47am

anymore wrote: »

Dont blame Mossaad because ireland is Governed by idiots !

Why don't you answer the questions put to you above?

anymore · 24-05-2010 11:49am

deadtiger wrote: »

What have these got to do with the topic in hand.

Do you agree that it was wrong for Israel to forge Irish passports yes or no?

Do you agree that it was wrong for Israelis to use forged Irish Passports to gain entrance to another country yes or no?

Do you agree that it was wrong for these people to carry out a murder while pretending to be Irish and citizens from other countries, yes or no?

Everything else you have above is deflecting from the question.

Yes Israel was very naughty to use irish passports in the same as UK intelligence and CIA etc use them !:eek:
However unlike her Majesty's Secret Service, Israel has not as far as I am aware colluded in terrorist attacks in the Republic, it has not colluded with Loyalist terrorist organiastaions to assist them to assassinate irish passport holders.
It is a matter of perspective.

alastair · 24-05-2010 11:55am

anymore wrote: »

Israel is an ally of the West.

Allied against whom exactly?

It's worth pointing out that Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, etc are all allies of the west, or have been in recent history. Syria was a western ally in GW1, and looks like being back in US favour, now that Iran is once again the prime designated enemy. Israel isn't any sort of ally in this whole passport affair - undermining the accreditation of other nation's citizens to commit murder is just inexcusable.

gandalf · 24-05-2010 12:05pm

anymore wrote: »

Yes Israel was very naughty to use irish passports in the same as UK intelligence and CIA etc use them !:eek:
However unlike her Majesty's Secret Service, Israel has not as far as I am aware colluded in terrorist attacks in the Republic, it has not colluded with Loyalist terrorist organiastaions to assist them to assassinate irish passport holders.
It is a matter of perspective.

Again not answering the questions just deflecting.

I never asked about the CIA, UK intelligence, Loyalists, or any other organisation you care to throw into the mix.

I asked you direct questions on whether it was right for Israel to use forged Irish Passports in a different country to murder someone. All I can do is judge from your unwillingness to respond properly is you do realise that it was wrong but it doesn't suit your position or purposes to concede this.

anymore · 24-05-2010 12:08pm

alastair wrote: »

Allied against whom exactly?

It's worth pointing out that Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, etc are all allies of the west, or have been in recent history. Syria was a western ally in GW1, and looks like being back in US favour, now that Iran is once again the prime designated enemy. Israel isn't any sort of ally in this whole passport affair - undermining the accreditation of other nation's citizens to commit murder is just inexcusable.

Are or have been ?
What does that mean - ?
Germany is and/or was an ally of other european countries but that didnt stop her march off to invade and starting two world wars, did it ?

anymore · 24-05-2010 12:15pm

deadtiger wrote: »

Again not answering the questions just deflecting.

I never asked about the CIA, UK intelligence, Loyalists, or any other organisation you care to throw into the mix.

I asked you direct questions on whether it was right for Israel to use forged Irish Passports in a different country to murder someone. All I can do is judge from your unwillingness to respond properly is you do realise that it was wrong but it doesn't suit your position or purposes to concede this.

pardon me ! I am not saying that isnt wrong; I am putting it into perspective.
Has Mossad done more damage to Irelands reputation that the honourable Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness ?

wes · 24-05-2010 12:21pm

So the Australians have expelled a diplomat as well. I think we need follow suit asap. What Israel did, needs a response.

gandalf · 24-05-2010 12:25pm

anymore wrote: »

pardon me ! I am not saying that isnt wrong; I am putting it into perspective.
Has Mossad done more damage to Irelands reputation that the honourable Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness ?

Again deflection.

What Mossad has done along with Israel is devalue the integrity of Irish Passports in countries that we as an international entity have good relationships.

Yes Ireland has sold passports to individuals in the past but least we know who they are. We did not however give Israel carte blanch permission to duplicate our legal documents to carry out whatever grubby illegal operations they feel they need to carry out across the world.

No amount of feeble attempts from you deflect from this fact.

(btw nice Godwinism in that response to alastair)

Israeli Secret Service asked to inspect Irish passport production facility

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