Third-level fees have to come back

Four billion to be spent on buildings? Seriously? :rolleyes:

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Third level fees do not have to come back. I've benefited from free fees, I'd never be able to afford a university education without free fees. There is a desperate lack of funding in the third level sector. Re-introducing fees and forcing people from poor backgrounds away from University is not the way to go.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Third level fees do not have to come back. I've benefited from free fees, I'd never be able to afford a university education without free fees. There is a desperate lack of funding in the third level sector. Re-introducing fees and forcing people from poor backgrounds away from University is not the way to go.

They can work for a few years, save up quite a bit of money and then go to college say when they are 21 or 23, mature students tend to have more appreciation for the courses they are doing than a lot of 17 or 18 year old kids.

Third level fees should be brought back in some form or another. Though a government sponsored loans system would be a step in the right direction, I would also favour a situation where those who can pay up front should have to do so. Remember that those from the poorest backgrounds won't pay anyway: they are covered by council grants.


As it stands, Irish universities are chronically underfunded. My own, UCC, has a deficit of €13 million. Most of this was incurred in building the new IT centre, which has vastly improved the Departments of Mathematics and Computing, and, as such, the university as a whole.

Without more funding Irish universities will not be able to improve. At the moment UCC is placed in the high 200's in the Times international university rankings. As a future graduate, this worries me. When I move abroad for a job or for a postgrad, interviewers will have no idea what or where UCC is because Irish people are making no attempt to put it on the international stage, instead preferring to be tight-fisted.

The choice we have is clear: continue to spuriously demand we get our third level degrees for free or chip in for our own benefit and receive an education that has the potential to be vastly superior.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have fees. But this isn't a perfect world, and Irish universities are chronically underfunded compared to their international counterparts.

We have a few options:

• Raise taxes for everyone to pay for improvements and keep free fees. (like that'll happen)
• Bring back fees upfront for all.
• Bring back fees upfront, poorer students get grants,etc.
• Student contribution after graduation via a loan system.
• Student contribution after graduation via PRSI.
• Status-quo.

The last option there is the least preferable, and we'll pay for it for years if we don't do anything. My own preferred option (and I say this as a first year student) would be a contribution after graduation via PRSI (as FG proposed last year - policy document), rather than loans since I don't like the idea of being saddled with "debt" (yes, I know that paying it back via tax or a loan is basically the same, but I'd rather pay tax than pay off a debt - it's psychological).

Such a system also removes pressure from the families of students (unless, of course, they want to pay them upfront) and should instil a bit of appreciation among students as to what they're getting.

I also find it a bit of a joke that with "free fees" we still have the €1,500 "registration fee", which is higher than the fees that students have to pay in some German provinces!

Simply taxing the population more, as Pride Fighter has suggested, is only shooting one's self in the foot as investment in the economy will probably go down and there will be less jobs for graduates.

There are pictures, for example, of the current SU President, Keith O'Brien, protesting outside UCC at the lack of jobs available to graduates. As well as being a prime example of unhealthy government dependency, it was also highly ironic: Mr O'Brien has been instrumental in campaigning for the continuation of the free-fees system, which has resulted in higher taxes for everyone, thus impeding job creation, as I said. You can't have your cake and eat it to, eh?


Sulmac: there are some problems with loans' systems. Firstly, they will deliver little in the way of investment to universities now, although universities can borrow if they are guaranteed future income. Secondly, I have yet to think of a good way to police the system. What happens to those graduates who leave Ireland, for example?

Fees that address cost; not profit.

Thats where the US has gone wrong, and to be frank, has retarded the population to a woeful shambles.

I'm currently working at one of the top rated schools in the US and the tuition fees are in the region of $40,000 a year. For a four year degree that's a $160,000 bill. I know for a fact that there's no way I would have gone to University if I had to pay that much, I simply don't place that much value on the education I've received.

While I acknowledge that fees would more than likely sort the grain from the chaff as regards people who appreciate their education, the question remains (to continue the metaphor) how much of the grain can we afford to lose and at what cost. In my opinion education should be provided by the state and should be free, I like the Irish system where the government will only pay for your education the first time around. This in turn should provide for a greater return to the state as an educated workforce will generally have more stable employment and higher income thus paying more in tax and indirectly paying for their own education.

That being said as it stands, unfortunately Ireland can no longer provide employment for many of the graduates and so we have huge emmigration and a major brain-drain. Of my engineering class that graduated last year I think only 30% are working in Ireland while 30% are working overseas. The remainder have either returned to education or gone travelling (due to circumstance rather than desire). So where is the point in subsidising education for foreign countries? Unless we can get our act together and provide employment for the educated people we do have, why spend our money educating more with no return for it.

I don't agree with paying a tax to repay your loans as I think one should only have to pay for exactly what they've spent. Interest free loans for graduates is the way to go and if I take out a loan from a bank and then leave the country they're still going to want it back and I'll probably receive a summons upon my return, so saying people could easily run away from their loans is plain foolish.

Another thing we don't have in Ireland that could be a huge benefit if fees return is scholarships, there is little or no recognition for those who put in a lot of work and achieve highly, yet these are the ones who will more than likely create a good name for the University both here and abroad. I think if fees return (which they should as things stand) then this achievement should be rewarded and those students acknowledged.