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Fianna Fail's actions are tantamount to murder

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    #62
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Aye third level student.... one of those types who gets a heavily subsidised education compared to most other countries. Maybe you should have done your undergraduate in the uk where the average debt a student starts off their career is £20,000. But yeah knock the party that gives you heavily subsidised education.
    The Labour Party brought that in back in 1996, not Fianna Fail. They'd remove the fees in a flash if they thought they could get away with it but they can't afford to lose anymore votes, hence bringing them back in through the back door with the rise in capitation fees and HEA cuts.

    I'm well entitled to knock Fianna Fail for their actions (and in some places lack of action).


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    #63
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    Voltwad wrote: »
    The Labour Party brought that in back in 1996, not Fianna Fail. They'd remove the fees in a flash if they thought they could get away with it but they can't afford to lose anymore votes, hence bringing them back in through the back door with the rise in capitation fees and HEA cuts.

    I'm well entitled to knock Fianna Fail for their actions (and in some places lack of action).

    Can you answer my stamp duty question?
    I'd like to hear your opinion of it.


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    #64
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Denerick wrote: »
    I don't 'forgive' FF, I think their handling of the economy wasn't good, but I also recognise that they merely reflected the will of the people and the political establishment. If FG were elected at the last election, I can guarantee you the economic crash would have hit us just as bad, so blaming FF for the cancer in our political culture is simply lazy.

    BULLS***.
    I have avoided posting inthis thread so far, but this deserves comment.

    If you think that the real damage was done post 2007 it shows how little you know about the reasons why we are so f***ed or how much you actually want to try and convince others that it had f***all to do with the ff party.


    No matter who got elected in 2007 the die had been cast as far back as 2001 when the property bubble (yes it was a bubble not a fecking boom) was inflated by section grants for development, by allowing banks lend 100% plus mortgages, by initiating no tax measures to curb flipping or short term speculation or increasing taxes on landlords.
    Public sector psending had been ramped up coutesy of the ff bertie led governments and before you mouth off that FG would have done the same, Bruton was warning that benchmarking was ill advised.

    Who was the major party in government from 2001 onwards ? ff
    Who was the major party in power when the economy become one where we borrowed money to buy houses from each other, competition went out the window and we lost productive jobs ? ff
    Who was the major party in power when the a huge proportion of our young male population ended up working in a short term construciton bubble ? ff

    I believe the big difference that would have occurred if FG/Lab had been in power post 2007 is that we may not have had €22,000,000,000 and possibly more pis*** down the Anglo drain.
    Also we would have had transparency and not private enquiries behind closed doors to hide what really went on in the banks.

    As regards which party created the cancerous political system, can you answer what the following infamous tramps have added to ethical moral public representation in this country: charlie haughey, ray burke, liam lawlor, bertie ahern, padraig flynn, bevelry cooper flynn, willie o'dea, frank fahey, stroke fahy ?
    Denerick wrote: »
    You seem to be blaming FF for creating a political culture the rest of the political world in this country, and the voters followed. Personally, I think that's dishonest and that the people you should be angry with is your local FF election volunteer for partaking in such an Orwellian scheme.

    ff members are equally to blame since they have joined and supported an organisation that is led by morally, ethically corrupt leaders that tolerates liars and theives in high office.

    rightwingdub wrote: »
    I voted FF-PDS in 2002 and again in 2007, FF are a cultural sympthom of a society that has felexible attitude towards rules in Irelland, there has always been a cultural tolerance of corruption within the FF parliamentary party, most FF TDS are not corrupt, Irish people alsd to take ahard look at themselves and assess their own attitudes towards rules.

    BTW, FF deserve to be in opoosition for the next 20 years.

    So if you voted for a party led by bertie, that had promoted one ray burke to high office, had welcomed back into the party a tax cheat facilitator, had refused to adequately cooperate with tribunals does that not also mean you have a flexible attitude to rules, corruption and ethics in public life ?

    BTW before you fire it back, I have never voted ff since I remember the days when charlie scumbag was in power.
    I don't need to take a hard look at myself, but I think you do.


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    #65
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Chill out. I'm only saying that FF followed the policies the people and the establishment wanted. Are you denying that? Can you really deny history just because you're angry and pissed off?


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    #66
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Denerick wrote: »
    Chill out. I'm only saying that FF followed the policies the people and the establishment wanted. Are you denying that? Can you really deny history just because you're angry and pissed off?

    Again BS grade 1.
    They followed the policies that certain connected supporters wanted, not policies that the people wanted.
    People may have wanted descreased taxes, the ones who did not want to work wanted increased dole, the unlucky and sick wanted increased welfare, but I don't think the people ever wanted a home to cost them 10 or 12 times their anual salary, or to have to take out a 40 year mortgage to buy a home.

    Then when some of the crumbs began to fall down to the ordinary voters they thought it was great.
    bertie decided to shaft his finance minister because he wasn't social enough i.e. buying more votes with some policies.

    Who are the establishment ?
    Would that be the bankers, the developers, the builders, the legal system, the public servants, especially the top public servants and the union leaders who got onto state boards ?

    If you notice these were the biggest gainers in the bertie era.

    So stop the usual sh*** about how we all gained so much during the bubble and thus how we all are equally guilty now.


    BTW why should I chill out now that my family's future is put at great risk and my kids will have to emigrate like their grandfather, grand uncles and grand aunts before them.


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    #67
    paddyland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    Denerick wrote: »
    Chill out. I'm only saying that FF followed the policies the people and the establishment wanted. Are you denying that? Can you really deny history just because you're angry and pissed off?

    That's a wrong twist to take. People voted for the sham that FF offered them, a land of milk and honey, where taxes were low, public service high, everything was for sale, and anyone could have anything they ever dreamed, at no long term cost to themselves or society.

    People who were conscious of the world around them, who understood some modicum of politics or economics, could see that this was an utter sham, an utterly unsustainable sham. But most ordinary people have no interest in politics or economics, and should have no need to. They just want to get on with their lives as best they can, and elect leaders who they trust not to lead them up the creek.

    The FF apologists are shamelessly trying to blame 'de people' for their own problems. We should all take responsibility, yadda yadda. And fair enough. Except that 'de people' put faith in the elected FF government of the day to at least keep a handle on things, and that FF government betrayed that trust badly.

    When someone betrays a trust so deeply and so profoundly, it should be a long rainy twenty years of humility before they are ever given consideration again.

    FF have proven one thing. They cannot be trusted. Their word is worthless. And that is more than enough not to vote for them under any condition. Regardless who the opposition is. Fianna Fáil cannot be trusted. They will let you down, regardless what promises they make.


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    #68
    JohnfromGalway
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭JohnfromGalway


    Didn't the electorate throw out of government the FG-led "Rainbow Coalition" more than a decade ago, for no other reason than they fancied a change & were taken in (yet again) by the promises made by FF?

    We got the government we deserved!

    The question is: Will we ever learn?


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    #69
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,896 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    paddyland wrote: »
    People who were conscious of the world around them, who understood some modicum of politics or economics, could see that this was an utter sham, an utterly unsustainable sham. But most ordinary people have no interest in politics or economics, and should have no need to. They just want to get on with their lives as best they can, and elect leaders who they trust not to lead them up the creek.

    Democracy is government by the people. If you're content to live in ignorance then you'll end up electing the government you deserve.


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    #70
    paddyland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    Stark wrote: »
    Democracy is government by the people. If you're content to live in ignorance then you'll end up electing the government you deserve.

    Human nature is to live in ignorance. At least a large percentage do.

    Is that a carte blanche for a political grouping to move in and take advantage of people's ignorance for corrupt self interest?

    How do we construct a society of honesty and fairness and accountability and responsibility, when human nature is to a large part to live in ignorance?

    Is Fianna Fáil to be the fate of this country then?


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    #71
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,896 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Well who's going to vote them out if the people won't vote them out? Typical Irish, so dependant on the state that we even expect the Government to decide who we're going to vote for.


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    #72
    scr123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    Wasnt aware till last November sites like Politics.ie and Boards.ie existed. Logged on as user to P.ie and had three great months taunting the ABFF till they ganged up on had me banned. They give but cannot take it. Then logged on here and made a few posts but was threatened by a Mod for no reason other than retaliating to personal abuse. Have not bothered for a while now as its the same old crapology from people with nothing else but a chronic addiction to hatred of FF. Anyway it get boring boring talking to the wall.
    However, this thread is the most disgusting I have come across anywhere in the hatred of FF. Its pointless attacking the ABFF as in the case of P.ie I would surely be banned. Can get around the banning but for goodness sake if free speech is denied to one section of political life whats the point.

    Anyway, can I just say I get down on my knees every day and thank the lord the ABFF did not win the 2007 election because for certain we would have 700000 to 800000 unemployed now and the soup kitchens would be all over the country !!


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    #73
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    scr123 wrote: »
    Wasnt aware till last November sites like Politics.ie and Boards.ie existed. Logged on as user to P.ie and had three great months taunting the ABFF till they ganged up on had me banned. They give but cannot take it. Then logged on here and made a few posts but was threatened by a Mod for no reason other than retaliating to personal abuse. Have not bothered for a while now as its the same old crapology from people with nothing else but a chronic addiction to hatred of FF. Anyway it get boring boring talking to the wall.
    However, this thread is the most disgusting I have come across anywhere in the hatred of FF. Its pointless attacking the ABFF as in the case of P.ie I would surely be banned. Can get around the banning but for goodness sake if free speech is denied to one section of political life whats the point.

    Anyway, can I just say I get down on my knees every day and thank the lord the ABFF did not win the 2007 election because for certain we would have 700000 to 800000 unemployed now and the soup kitchens would be all over the country !!
    So they didn't ban you until you taunted them? That's called flaming, welcome to the internet :)


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    #74
    paddyland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    scr123 wrote: »
    Wasnt aware till last November sites like Politics.ie and Boards.ie existed. Logged on as user to P.ie and had three great months taunting the ABFF till they ganged up on had me banned. They give but cannot take it. Then logged on here and made a few posts but was threatened by a Mod for no reason other than retaliating to personal abuse. Have not bothered for a while now as its the same old crapology from people with nothing else but a chronic addiction to hatred of FF. Anyway it get boring boring talking to the wall.
    However, this thread is the most disgusting I have come across anywhere in the hatred of FF. Its pointless attacking the ABFF as in the case of P.ie I would surely be banned. Can get around the banning but for goodness sake if free speech is denied to one section of political life whats the point.

    Anyway, can I just say I get down on my knees every day and thank the lord the ABFF did not win the 2007 election because for certain we would have 700000 to 800000 unemployed now and the soup kitchens would be all over the country !!

    In actual fact, you can post any old trash you like about Fianna Fáil. Whatever you post will speak for itself. We had ten years of boom, we never had it so good, yadda yadda. Funny thing is, whenever anyone posts a particularly incisive demolition of your viewpoint, you seem to disappear...


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    #75
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Voltwad wrote: »
    So they didn't ban you until you taunted them? That's called flaming, welcome to the internet :)

    Well to get banned over on politics.ie you have to really act the tool.
    I mean personal abuse is the order of the day, where you can really tell mindless eejits that spout pure drivel, contort history to suit their needs what you think of them unlike here where we are ever so nice.
    (as he watches over his shoulder for scofflaw and sceptre :o)

    Ah but poor ould mr/ms scr123 got banned for no reason, except telling the anti ff brigade they were wrong and should see the error of their ways.
    Yeah right. :rolleyes:


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    #76
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Please don't take the grievance high ground, we all have to live by the excesses of the last twenty years. I'm in my early 20s, where do you think I'll be in ten years time? London, probably. I'm just as pissed off with the country as anyone else, but the whole simplistic narrative BS is tiresome. I remember before the last election that Willy O Dea was getting crucified on Questions and Answers by the FG panelist demanding that he scrap Stamp Duty.

    You wanna talk about politics? Look in the mirror next time and ask yourself whether you can really claim to be innocent of the populist claptrash the political establishment pushed down your throats. Either that or be willing to debate the reality of the last 20 years (WHEN EVERY SINGLE PARTY EFFECTIVELY SUPPORTED FF POLICIES)

    Grow up and smell the bull****, politics is bull****, get over it.


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    #77
    Fr0g
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fr0g


    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    But ..Lenihan apart - this Govt is mad up of the same arseholes who subscribe to the nod and wink way of doing things - who were bosom buddies with Seanie and Fingers and who sucked up to the hard hats at the Galway tent.

    Lenihan apart?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-says-house-prices-now-at-bottom-2124724.html

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nama-is-winning-public-respect-lenihan-2145269.html

    Lenihan is spiv and a chancer like all the rest. He has turned a disaster into a catastrophe.

    I do not understand where the adoration of Brian Lenihan comes from. The bank guarantee was a mistake. The nationalization of Anglo dragged the entire banking system down with it. The situation would have been rescuable if Anglo had been cut loose. NAMA is a fudge to fix the original mistake of the the bank guarantee. For the past 18 months we have had a drip feed of banking scandal after banking scandal. The bailout started out with figures being quoted in the millions, then tens of millions, then 100s of millions, billions and now tens of billions. Be in no doubt that they have known from the outset how much this was going to cost but they couldn't have released the info all at once. It is easier to get the public to accept it in small doses. Be assured that there is worse to come.


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    #78
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    The alternative to granting a bank guarantee was allowing the banking system to effectively collapse. I don't see how any other policy would have worked. I'm as economically Liberal as the next man but sometimes the government has to intervene, in cases where everyone stands to lose out.

    I really wish someone could draw up a hypothetical model for how the economic crisis could have been handled differently... Because its very easy to condemn, even though the alternatives seem much darker.


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    #79
    Fulton Crown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭Fulton Crown


    Fr0g wrote: »
    Lenihan apart?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-says-house-prices-now-at-bottom-2124724.html

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nama-is-winning-public-respect-lenihan-2145269.html

    Lenihan is spiv and a chancer like all the rest. He has turned a disaster into a catastrophe.

    I do not understand where the adoration of Brian Lenihan comes from. The bank guarantee was a mistake. The nationalization of Anglo dragged the entire banking system down with it. The situation would have been rescuable if Anglo had been cut loose. NAMA is a fudge to fix the original mistake of the the bank guarantee. For the past 18 months we have had a drip feed of banking scandal after banking scandal. The bailout started out with figures being quoted in the millions, then tens of millions, then 100s of millions, billions and now tens of billions. Be in no doubt that they have known from the outset how much this was going to cost but they couldn't have released the info all at once. It is easier to get the public to accept it in small doses. Be assured that there is worse to come.

    You may very well be right but from where I sit he does not seem to have the same gombeen stamp of the rest of them.

    I'm not saying that the decisions he made were right or wrong - only that he seemed to make them for the good of the country rather than his own agrandisment or that of his cronies.

    The guy is a highly qualified barrister - I imagine he could make a hell of a lot more money at that with a lot less pressure.


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    #80
    Fr0g
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fr0g


    Denerick wrote: »
    The alternative to granting a bank guarantee was allowing the banking system to effectively collapse. I don't see how any other policy would have worked. I'm as economically Liberal as the next man but sometimes the government has to intervene, in cases where everyone stands to lose out.

    I really wish someone could draw up a hypothetical model for how the economic crisis could have been handled differently... Because its very easy to condemn, even though the alternatives seem much darker.

    Allowing one bank to fail (i.e. Anglo) would not have been a bad thing. It would have put manners on the other banking officials and we wouldn't have had to take on the crucifying burden of anglo debt. we could have put up a limited guarantee not 400 billion of deposits AND debt. We could have done a deal with the bondholders. We could have set up a good bank with the 25 billion we threw away propping up anglo. What makes you think the alternatives are darker? "There's no alternative" , "The only game in town" does not a debate make. Pure spivery to hide the potentially damaging information no doubt hidden in anglo.


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    #81
    Fr0g
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fr0g


    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    You may very well be right but from where I sit he does not seem to have the same gombeen stamp of the rest of them.

    I'm not saying that the decisions he made were right or wrong - only that he seemed to make them for the good of the country rather than his own agrandisment or that of his cronies.

    The guy is a highly qualified barrister - I imagine he could make a hell of a lot more money at that with a lot less pressure.

    A slavish devotion to FF and power. The Lenihan family are career FF politicians. There was no clear reason to nationalize Anglo except to protect FF and their cronies at the expense of the taxpayer. BL is no different to any of them.


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    #82
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    I don't know, but personally I would rather have seen Anglo wind down gradually rather than propping up an obviously inefficient bank. But thats just me. At the end of the day I'm not the man in the department of Finance and I really couldn't tell you what the best course of action would be. But the constant condemnation makes me dizzy, perhaps there are good alternatives that weren't persued but 'doing a deal with x, y, z' doesn't seem to me like good government policy.


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    #83
    Fr0g
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fr0g


    Denerick wrote: »
    'doing a deal with x, y, z' doesn't seem to me like good government policy.

    Why not? Government is all about doing deals and reaching compromises. The alternative is a dictatorship.


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    #84
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Fr0g wrote: »
    Why not? Government is all about doing deals and reaching compromises. The alternative is a dictatorship.

    I'm referring to this supposed dealmaking on the international bondmarket.


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    #85
    Fr0g
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fr0g


    Denerick wrote: »
    I'm referring to this supposed dealmaking on the international bondmarket.

    Yes I know. Why would it be bad government policy? Besides these are bank debts are not ours no need for gov. to get involved. Anglo was not "our" bank it was a private business like all the other banks. the spiv lenihan keeps referring to them as "ours", they are not. Not our (i.e. the taxpayers) banks not our debts. Why when they face bankruptcy are they suddenly "ours" four years ago they were gouging the general public trying to make as much profit from us as they could on a fake boom that they created.


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    #86
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    Fr0g wrote: »
    Why not? Government is all about doing deals and reaching compromises. The alternative is a dictatorship.

    Haven't we effectively let a dictatorship in disguise of FF run the country for years. The only differnce than a coup is that they were democrately voted in.


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    #87
    Scram
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭Scram


    Voltwad wrote: »
    It's time for this shower to clear out. More and more they're turning ordinary working people against each other. Some have even taken their own lives due to their inability to cope without a home or a job. The decision to bail out the banks rather than going back to the basics of human agency is a prime reason why less and less, people are patriotic. Fianna Fail have ruined this country and they must go. Murderers, they've done some damage.

    If somebody marched into their offices tomorrow and shot the whole lot of them, I wouldn't even attend the state funeral and to be honest I'd rather sit on the side of the road in the freezing cold and pissings of rain in a decrepit sleeping bag than sit in a pub with a Fianna Fail minister. They disgust me. The people of this country have been robbed blind and blinded by lies and remain infected by an apathy that needs to be cured.

    Their refusal to hold an open enquiry into the banking system, the way in which they have looked after their own cronies with golden handshakes etc, the closure of special needs schools, the cuts to education, the proposed bulldozing of all of the ghost buildings, the destroying of small businesses such as honest, hard working hotel owners, etc, etc, etc. Where does it end? How much are people willing to stand for? The U.S. and the U.K. have already imprisoned the wrong-doers, why not us?

    They try to shy away from all of this by saying it's in the past and that we need to look forward. If history has thought us anything it's that we need to re-visit the past in order to learn from it and to ensure that the same mistakes are not made ever again. Mary Harney once said that the Irish electorate has a memory of a fortnight. This government's arrogance and belief that they possess a god-given right to ru(i)n this country must be turned on its' head.

    Your totaly right. There should be a public enquiry into the banks and people should be jailed. I cant understand how come nobody has been made reponsable for the mess were in.


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    #88
    Fr0g
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fr0g


    femur61 wrote: »
    Haven't we effectively let a dictatorship in disguise of FF run the country for years. The only difference than a coup is that they were democrately voted in.

    Our president was not elected. Somebody decided we did not need a presidential election last time out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_presidential_election,_2004
    From Wikipedia wrote:
    Criticism of the election

    In the event of a public vote, it is likely that some of the public would have voted against the incumbent, although there is no firm guideline as to how much support would have remained for McAleese, as this would have depended on what other candidates were presented. (As mentioned earlier, McAleese's support was however, exceedingly high). For those who desired a public vote, the main culprits in defeating efforts to nominate other candidates were the main parties, who blocked any support from county councils. In particular, Fine Gael's alliance with Fianna Fáil was instrumental in blocking candidates such as Dana Rosemary Scallon.

    No election, no democracy.

    Here is the master of spivvery ahearn congratulation mcaleese on her "Re-Election" in 2004
    http://taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/Government_Press_Office/Taoiseach%27s_Press_Releases_2004/Taoiseach_congratulates_President_McAleese_on_Re-Election.html



    Brian Cowen was not elected leader of FF and therefore not elected as Taoiseach.

    Here is the pravda/rte take on it
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0409/fiannafail.html
    Brian Cowen was elected unopposed as the seventh leader of Fianna Fáil at a special meeting of the parliamentary party this morning.

    How can anyone be elected unopposed? An election implies taking a poll to decide between two or more candidates. There was no challenge therefore he became leader by default, but there was no election, no democracy.


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    #89
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    Scram wrote: »
    Your totaly right. There should be a public enquiry into the banks and people should be jailed. I cant understand how come nobody has been made reponsable for the mess were in.


    Ireland, heading on thread says it all,


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    #90
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    Fr0g wrote: »
    Our president was not elected. Somebody decided we did not need a presidential election last time out.

    no election, no democracy.

    Thats true, forgot about that (should be in FF with my memory, "what brown envelopes)


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    #91
    MaceFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    Fr0g wrote: »
    Allowing one bank to fail (i.e. Anglo) would not have been a bad thing. It would have put manners on the other banking officials and we wouldn't have had to take on the crucifying burden of anglo debt. we could have put up a limited guarantee not 400 billion of deposits AND debt. We could have done a deal with the bondholders. We could have set up a good bank with the 25 billion we threw away propping up anglo. What makes you think the alternatives are darker? "There's no alternative" , "The only game in town" does not a debate make. Pure spivery to hide the potentially damaging information no doubt hidden in anglo.

    Even now looking back we still don't know the potential impact of allowing Anglo to fail. The reasoning is that it was of systemic importance meaning it could have brought down the entire banking system.
    Very few people know why the decision to save Anglo was made, so saying it was wrong is just like BL saying it was right. We simply don't know.
    I think BL is in a very difficult position. Even if he put all the facts out there today and no matter what those facts say, you would still have people arguing both ways.
    Fr0g wrote: »
    A slavish devotion to FF and power. The Lenihan family are career FF politicians. There was no clear reason to nationalize Anglo except to protect FF and their cronies at the expense of the taxpayer. BL is no different to any of them.

    Again, if Anglo failed, the argument says it could have brought down the entire banking system?
    Also, I certainly do not buy for a second that FF decided to bet the entire country just to do their mates a favour. What do they get in return?
    Fr0g wrote: »
    Yes I know. Why would it be bad government policy? Besides these are bank debts are not ours no need for gov. to get involved. Anglo was not "our" bank it was a private business like all the other banks. the spiv lenihan keeps referring to them as "ours", they are not. Not our (i.e. the taxpayers) banks not our debts. Why when they face bankruptcy are they suddenly "ours" four years ago they were gouging the general public trying to make as much profit from us as they could on a fake boom that they created.

    Unfortunately they are out debts. I just don't get the people who say that this is not our debt. We took it on through the guarantee and the nationalisation. If we renage on those debts it is the State who is deciding that. The reasoning is that if the State starts renaging on debts it has assumed on behalf of Anlog, will it start renaging on debt it has to run the actual country?


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