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All TV channels missing, but radio is fine - any ideas?

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    #182
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    Dear Mr.....

    Mr Cowmeadow our head of Panasonic European logistics has forwarded your e-mail to me for answering.
    I have read your correspondence and the discussion forums you have referred too, I would make the following
    comments related to this issue:

    Panasonic have not marketed the Freesat model's in Southern Ireland and only supply this product into the
    North of Ireland market for two reason one being the Freesat product is focused on the UK market and the other due to the
    Freeview digital tuner is design for the UK digital broadcast network, it is not compliant with the planned RTE transmission
    format they have selected to adopt.

    Whilst conducting their transmission tests RTE have use the format which can be received by equipment which can receive
    the UK digital broadcast signal, this however would not be the long term format to be used by RTE. I understand from the forums
    that a number of people have purchase this unit on the understand that it can receive the RTE digital signal.

    Since the changes they have applied in there test transmission single the effect you have described is the complaint we
    are receiving from Panasonic Customer who purchased the PZ81 models from the North of Ireland and are then using
    in the South of Ireland. The changes required to make this model receive the signal are more significant than just a software
    change and unfortunately we have no modification available to customer who find themselves in this position.

    I would agree with you entirely that we would have a responsibility to ensure continued functionality if we had produced and
    marketed the product for the Southern Irish market, but we have not. The hardware and software have been design for operation
    in the Northern Irish, and mainland UK markets. We therefore are not in a position where we are able to support our customers
    in the South of Ireland who have purchased these products from the north.

    If the users have purchase these units only for this functionality and it was marketed to them by the retail from whom they
    purchased the unit on this basis alone, I would suggest they contact these retailers to address their issues. We have notified the dealers
    in the north of Ireland about our opinion on this issue and the fact that product can not be sold to customers in southern
    Ireland for Free to area digital TV transmission use, as RTE do not support the format required.

    I am sorry I can not provide a complete resolution to your problem, and apologise for any confusion our original response may have caused.


    Regards



    Stuart Mckay
    Head of Service Group
    Panasonic UK Ltd.


    Any comments???

    Ae


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    #183
    SRB
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    "it is not compliant with the planned RTE transmission", given this is an agreed international DVB DTT format, why not ? I'd send him an e-mail explaining the SD Card solution and then ask why, if customers can solve the problem themselves, they can't. I'd also point out the TV's weren't bought in "the North".


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    #184
    Ninjakettle
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Ninjakettle


    The changes required to make this model receive the signal are more significant than just a software
    change and unfortunately we have no modification available to customer who find themselves in this position.

    But given the info expounded on this thread - this statement is surely wrong? It is precisely just a tiny software change that is required.


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    #185
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    Mr. Stuart Mckay didn't understand the problem.
    There is 1 (in words one) additional byte in the firmware needed to let the channel scan accept the irish tv channels.
    The rest of the firmware is following the dvb standards and following the dvb standards also means the firmware is able to handle mpeg4.
    The problem is not mpeg2 against mpeg4. The problem is the channel scan is not willing to accept irish TV channels with service type 0x16 in the service description data.


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    #186
    Ninjakettle
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Ninjakettle


    Stuart Mckay: I have read your correspondence and the discussion forums you have referred too

    For the attention of Stuart Mckay,

    On the off chance that you will be following up on your recent correspondence and revisiting this thread; i'd like to firstly thank you for taking the time to reply to your Irish customers regarding this issue.

    Secondly i would like to say that although these TVs were not marketed in the Republic of Ireland, there are nonetheless many customers who bought the TVs here and indeed more living in the border areas that purchased their sets in the North but use them in the South.

    I'd like to state that the TVs we own will work with the Irish DVB-T standard without any hardware modifications. This much we know for certain. We also know precisely what is preventing the sets from receiving the signal at this time. To paraphrase some of our learned members here:
    RTE changed the TV channel service type from 0x01 to 0x16 in the service description data. The problem arises when performing a channel scan after this change. Owners have found that the TV is not willing to store the tv channels which are now marked with service type 0x16 in the service description data.

    If an owner chooses not to perform a new channel scan, their channels remain unaffected and fully working. Furthermore, if affected owners upload a backup channel list via the hotel.pwd method, the irish tv channels can be restored.

    The problem in short, is that the channel scan is unable to store tv channels marked with service type 0x16 because the value 0x16 is not defined in 1 or 2 selection table(s).

    I respectfully ask that you raise the matter with your firmware/technical team and given that the precise problem is known already, it should surely be a simple matter of releasing an updated version of the firmware which we can apply ourselves?

    Thank you.


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    #187
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    Yet another email sent to Panasonic,


    "Good Morning Mr McKay,

    Thank you for your prompt reply the content of which is noted.

    However I posted your reply on the boards.ie forum and the following comment was made by a member:-


    “Mr. Stuart Mckay didn't understand the problem.

    There is 1 (in words one) additional byte in the firmware needed to let the channel scan accept the irish tv channels.
    The rest of the firmware is following the dvb standards and following the dvb standards also means the firmware is able to handle mpeg4.
    The problem is not mpeg2 against mpeg4. The problem is the channel scan is not willing to accept irish TV channels with service type 0x16 in the service description data.”


    I must also point out that the following course of action has been taken by some owners of this series of TV’s (including myself) to restore the reception of RTE’s DVB transmissions:-

    “Got my TV channels back!
    ________________________________________
    Thanks to all your advice ( particularly maxg an Apogee) I got my TV channels back. I have two Panasonic TX32LZD81 TVs. I used the Auto Setup on one of them and lost the TV channels but used the DVB manual tuning option on the other thereby not overwriting the TV channels. So, here's how I transferred the channel data between sets. DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!

    1. Format an SD card on a PC.

    Insert SD card into PC. Right-click on SD card in MyComputer, then select FORMAT and press OK.

    2. Set up hotel.pwd file on SD card.

    Open MyComputer and double click on SD card (Removeable Disk). Go to Tools, Folder Options and select the VIEW tab. Then unclick the "Hide extensions for known file types" option and apply the change. Right click and select New and Text Document to create an empty text file. Name it "hotel.pwd" ( Note that there is no .txt file extension added because of option selected above). Remove SD card.

    3. Copy all channels from TV1 to SD card.

    Turn on TV. Insert SD card. The process starts automatically. Enter the code 4850 when requested. The copy is made to the SD card. Remove the SD card.

    4. Copy channels from SD card to TV2.

    Turn on TV. Insert SD card. The process starts automatically. Enter the code 4851 when requested. The copy is made to the TV.
    Turn off the TV and then turn it on again. The channels are copied! There's no EPG info for the TV channels.

    I tried unsuccessfully to attach a compressed copy of the "hotel.pwd" file that was created on my SD card. It's for the Dublin Three Rock Mountain area channels. I'll try again if I can figure out how to do it.

    EDIT: Only copy between identical models! “


    While not a very elegant or permanent solution it works for the moment and it proves beyond any doubt the capability of these sets to function with RTE’s DVB transmission type.

    Surely if a few of your customers can isolate the problem and provide a temporary fix, then it is not beyond the capabilities of Panasonic to engineer a more elegant and permanent solution to the problem thus expanding the use and functionality of what is after all a really good range of TV’s to a larger user base.


    Your comments would be appreciated,


    Regards"

    We will see what happens now,


    Ae


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    #188
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    Just in case anyone wants to follow up with an email of their own the email address for Stuart McKay is:-

    FAO Stuart Mckay customer.care@panasonic.co.uk

    It might be a good idea to keep the pot boiling!!

    Ae


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    #189
    Ninjakettle
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Ninjakettle


    Thanks for the address, I've mailed Mr Mckay also with what I posted above.

    Say Panasonic release a new version of the firmware with the Selection Tables fixed. Is this something that we could then apply via the SD card slot ourselves?


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    #190
    MPEG4
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭MPEG4


    Got a PZ800 a week or so ago and have the same problem, but wanted to know if anyone else had actually seen them working? i.e. if they know they have the MPEG4 decoders.
    Thanks


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    #191
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    Ninjakettle wrote: »
    Thanks for the address, I've mailed Mr Mckay also with what I posted above.

    Say Panasonic release a new version of the firmware with the Selection Tables fixed. Is this something that we could then apply via the SD card slot ourselves?

    The panasonic freesat range has an upgrade path via satellite and got already 1 or 2 updates.
    A sd card is a second alternative.


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    #192
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    MPEG4 wrote: »
    Got a PZ800 a week or so ago and have the same problem, but wanted to know if anyone else had actually seen them working? i.e. if they know they have the MPEG4 decoders.
    Thanks

    The european model PZ800E got an mpeg4 decoder.
    The situation about the uk model PZ800B is not so clear. 1 or 2 reported last year irish dtt is not working.


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    #193
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    @Aepos

    Maybe Mr. McKay need a few additional hints:.

    - the pz81B/lzd81B TV's have an mpeg2/mpeg4 decoder on board
    - the mpeg decoder doesn't care about if the sat (freesat) tuner or the dvb-t (freeview) tuner is sending mpeg data for decoding.
    - the tuner has no affiliation to mpeg decoding
    - there is bog standard DVB-T in use in ROI and not DVB-T2
    - due to the dvb standard a receiving device which has an mpeg4 decoder on board has to accept service type 0x16
    - Panasonic promised in the declaration of conformity to fully following the DVB standards.


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    #194
    Barryo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Barryo


    Hi Anthony

    Thanks for your reply which is essentially a copy and paste of e-mail response I've already read - sent to someone querying the same issue in ROI.

    I think that you are missing the point of my e-mail. You're advising that this tv was only ever intended for use in the UK and to quote "The UK does not use such a system. So these TVs were never sold as capable of working with MPEG 4 DVB-T transmissions"

    Northern Ireland is part of the UK and we are using MPEG4 for RTE transmissions. I don't feel it's unreasonable for a UK customer (in region where this product is aimed at) should expect an upgrade to receive transmissions on TV he/she was previously recieving.

    Again i don't think that the resonse of "only intended for use in the UK market" is helpful especially for those who bought this tv in good faith. I AM IN THE UK and this tv has stopped receving transmissions that I am entitled to receive and which the TV was happy to receive until recently.

    Can you please look at this issue again as I see from Panasonic websites in the USA etc that online upgrades for TVs are possible. If as you are saying that the TVs are intended for UK only then an OTA upgrade from transmitters in Northern Ireland would ensure then that the upgrade is only received there.

    Kind Regards

    Barry O'Brien


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    #195
    yel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭yel


    Hi Lads,
    Has anyone got the SD Cards channels for Kippure?


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    #196
    SRB
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Barryo wrote: »

    Northern Ireland is part of the UK and we are using MPEG4 for RTE transmissions.......

    I AM IN THE UK and this tv has stopped receving transmissions that I am entitled to receive and which the TV was happy to receive until recently.

    Can you please look at this issue again as I see from Panasonic websites in the USA etc that online upgrades for TVs are possible. If as you are saying that the TVs are intended for UK only then an OTA upgrade from transmitters in Northern Ireland would ensure then that the upgrade is only received there.

    Barry, Northern Ireland isn't using MPEG4 for RTE.
    Kippure, Three Rock, Holywell Hill and Clermont Carn will, in all probability, be heavily nulled towards the North NW England/Wales. Kippure for example, has dropped drastically in signal strength after almost a month of perfect reception - from Easter Sunday until about a week ago it was actually stronger than some of the MUXES from Divis in and around Portaferry, Co Down.
    Someone posted to say the service descriptor change was a move by RTE to stop Freeview boxes storing the RTE TV channels, which they couldn't display anyway - if that is the case, then it's unlikely Panasonic will do anything to help viewers in NI.
    On the other hand, these are still tests and as RTE NL have said, settings being tested may not be the settings the service "goes live" with. It's quite possible once the tests are over, the TX's will all go off anyway, as no one is footing the bill other than RTE NL.


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    #197
    bob11
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭bob11


    Interesting article here on RTE's desire to continue it's broadcast services in Northern Ireland:

    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/dttfuture/responses/rte.pdf

    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/psb2_phase2/responses/rte.pdf

    Found the highlighted portion interesting ...

    Based on this view RTÉ believes that there would be significant public value in creating the framework whereby reciprocity of free-to-air terrestrial broadcasting services could be achieved on both sides of the border. The initiation of DTT in the Republic of Ireland now offers this as a real possibility, notwithstanding the political, legal and regulatory issues to be addressed in order to enable this to come into being.
    There are issues of frequency planning to be addressed, as well as the discussion regarding optimal technical standards to be adopted in both jurisdictions. In addition, the regulatory regime would also have to work very closely with the manufacturers in order to ensure a smooth deployment of suitable equipment throughout the island of Ireland.
    RTÉ would welcome the opportunity to engage with Ofcom and the other relevant UK authorities in order to explore the potential of such a reciprocal agreement.

    Free-to-air Digital Terrestrial Television
    The advent of the DTT platform in Britain and Northern Ireland, and soon in the Republic of Ireland, provides a unique opportunity for broadcasters to contribute to the further establishment of peace and reconciliation and play a part in supporting the normalisation of Northern Irish, and indeed Irish, society by allowing for the full expression of ‘all traditions and identities on the island’ free-to-air in both jurisdictions.
    A final point, with regard to digital switchover, concerns the probable loss of RTÉ services in Northern Ireland to many viewers there who will be affected when the switchover happens in 2012. This will have a significant impact on the cultural diversity of the television landscape in Northern Ireland. For this reason RTÉ asks if some way of legitimately providing free-to-air RTÉ services in Northern Ireland could be considered?
    RTÉ looks forward to engaging with Ofcom and all the other stakeholders and interested agencies in Northern Ireland as preparations for the digital future progress.


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    #198
    bob11
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭bob11


    Found some further stats on RTE viewers in NI here also, Do a search on the page for RTE ...
    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/cm/cmrnr08/tv/


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    #199
    Barryo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Barryo


    SRB wrote: »
    Barry, Northern Ireland isn't using MPEG4 for RTE.
    Kippure, Three Rock, Holywell Hill and Clermont Carn will, in all probability, be heavily nulled towards the North NW England/Wales. Kippure for example, has dropped drastically in signal strength after almost a month of perfect reception - from Easter Sunday until about a week ago it was actually stronger than some of the MUXES from Divis in and around Portaferry, Co Down.
    Someone posted to say the service descriptor change was a move by RTE to stop Freeview boxes storing the RTE TV channels, which they couldn't display anyway - if that is the case, then it's unlikely Panasonic will do anything to help viewers in NI.
    On the other hand, these are still tests and as RTE NL have said, settings being tested may not be the settings the service "goes live" with. It's quite possible once the tests are over, the TX's will all go off anyway, as no one is footing the bill other than RTE NL.

    I'm in Fermanagh with perfect reception of both Cairn AND Clermont, I'm just trying to counter the "not aimed at markets outside UK" line Panasonic are touting


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    #200
    Hissing Sideban
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Hissing Sideban


    Barryo wrote: »
    I'm in Fermanagh with perfect reception of both Cairn AND Clermont, I'm just trying to counter the "not aimed at markets outside UK" line Panasonic are touting


    Good point Barryo. I will add my contribution to the emails to Panasonic when I get home next week. It may be better to write a traditional letter to the higher management echelons of Panasonic, rather than an email. It is possible that an email might get caught in an anti-spam filter and never even be read.

    However, as a 'plan B', it might be possible to work out some sort of channel editor, If at least two, (but preferably three or more) different 'hotel' files, each from a set which was tuned successfully to a different different transmitter were compared in a hex editor.
    It should be possble to work out the RF tuning information, edit it and thereby get other sets working for Transmitters for which there were no saved 'hotel' mode files. How many different transmitter profiles have been saved?


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    #201
    keithoh
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭keithoh


    Hissing Sideban wrote: »
    Firstly, has anyone PZ81 channel list for Mt Leinster?

    The data attached is for the Mt. Leinster transmissions from a TH46PZ81B

    Unzip the file and copy the contents onto a SD card and insert into a PZ81B TV

    Use password 4851 when prompted

    PZ81B_data_Mt_Leinster.zip


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    #202
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    This is not the update we are looking for for our LZD81 and PZ81...some of you already have it...

    ...there is an update available through Freesat for these Pannies running since the 22nd May.

    Company Models Version PNR Start End
    Humax FOXSAT-HD 1.00.15 N 07-10-2008 Open
    Freesat TECHNISAT HD STB product NA N 20-02-2009 Open
    Alba GOODMANS, BUSH, GRUNDIG SD & HD products SD 1.4.25 HD1.5.46 N 15-04-2009 Open
    Panasonic LZD81B and PZ81B v2.602 v1.616 R 22-05-2009 Open


    http://www.dtg.org.uk/industry/download_schedule.php

    Hopefully there is a future change which will allow a firmware fix for our DTT problem.

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



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    #203
    Hissing Sideban
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Hissing Sideban


    keithoh wrote: »
    The data attached is for the Mt. Leinster transmissions from a TH46PZ81B

    Unzip the file and copy the contents onto a SD card and insert into a PZ81B TV

    Use password 4851 when prompted

    PZ81B_data_Mt_Leinster.zip
    Ta Keith, worked a treat!

    Now to write the letter to Panasonic


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    #204
    keithoh
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭keithoh


    Hissing Sideban wrote: »
    Ta Keith, worked a treat!

    Now to write the letter to Panasonic

    No problem, glad you've got your channels back


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    #205
    antomack
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭antomack


    Anyone out there got a file for Cairn Hill to use on my 42PZ81


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    #206
    Ninjakettle
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Ninjakettle


    +1 Would appreciate the Cairn Hill one too.


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    #207
    Down Exile
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Down Exile


    Tomdub

    I downloaded the file for your 32LZD81 tv and put the data into my 37LZD81 which worked perfectly last week, DTT was restored. On Wednesday night I thought that I would try to tune in the ITV HD channel for the Champions League Final, I got the frequency from somewhere.

    I went into the Other Satellite Services menu and entered the frequency and hit scan. This came up with a lot of channels, but not ITV HD. (by the way, can anybody else get the ITV HD channel to work, I know that is supposed to appear sometimes if you press the red button, but I have had no success so far).

    I went back to DTT and the 4 channels were gone, all I get is "No signal"! After the match I reloaded your data from the SD card but no change. I then went back to Shipping Condition and then reloaded your data, but again no DTT.

    The only thing that I noticed was that the software version is 2602-10100 which would seem to agree with another post re Engineering Channel over-air download schedule updates where the Panasonic LZD81B had a software update to v2.602 on the 22nd May.

    When I go to DTT and channel 54 the signal strength is good, but the quality is zero which is different to what it used to be before. Does you 32LZD81 still work OK? Do you have the same software version as myself.

    Thanks in anticipation


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    #208
    stephene
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭stephene


    Down Exile wrote: »
    Tomdub
    On Wednesday night I thought that I would try to tune in the ITV HD channel for the Champions League Final, I got the frequency from somewhere.

    If you entered a NI postcode in the Freesat setup you will have UTV at channel 103 and you won't have access to the ITV-HD red button.
    However, if you go to channel 977, which is ITV1 London, the red button will pop up there fine - when there is an HD programme on of course :D

    Stephen.


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    #209
    bob11
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭bob11


    Down Exile ...

    It may not be your TV,

    RTE seem to be doing some changes at the moment, I lost all my channels from Three Rock 2 days ago, still not back. Other people have had problems as well, More discussion here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055350262&page=14


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    #210
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    Three Rock DVB fine with me all week. (FreeSat Panny)

    Ae


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    #211
    Fat_Fingers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭Fat_Fingers


    bob11 wrote: »
    Down Exile ...

    It may not be your TV,

    RTE seem to be doing some changes at the moment, I lost all my channels from Three Rock 2 days ago, still not back. Other people have had problems as well, More discussion here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055350262&page=14


    Yes, i noticed 2 days ago it was all gone from Three Rock, It was on channel 54 today i scanned all frequencies and found it all. They stopped broadcasting on 54 and moved to 61 so all channels are back now. I have RTE1, RTE2, TV3 , TNG and RTE Test , haven't had RTE Test channel before. Nothing on it, just a color bars...


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