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All TV channels missing, but radio is fine - any ideas?

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    #152
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    Hi all,

    Email sent this morning, so we'll see if anything happens.

    "Good Morning,


    I am the owner of a TX32LZD81 TV and I refer to your LCD Freesat Tv’s particularly the operation of same in the Irish Republic and the RTE DVB-T service.


    As you have recently been made aware by many Republic of Ireland owners of these TV’s, both LCD and Plasma, who until recently were able to decode the RTE DVB-T Mpeg4 transmission that due to a firmware limitation the ability to store the Channel data as set out in the DVB-T specifications has been lost.

    “It appears that the reason that the TV no longer works is because it does not recognise the service type which has been changed from 0x01 to 0x16 ,22(0x16) = Advanced Codec SD Digital Television Service, which does not appear to be defined in the firmware ..”

    In a recent reply to a complaint made by another ROI Panasonic customer the following statement was made:-

    “It is purely down to good luck that DVB-T channels prior to changes RTE made that now prevents DVB-T reception on the new MPEG 4 system.

    We would recommend you purchase a set top box designed for Ireland’s MPEG 4 broadcast system and use that with the TV for the new channels in Ireland.”

    Such a response is totally unacceptable from what is a after all a “Premium” brand when a “fix” should be possible with a little effort from your engineering department especially as there are a considerable number of Panasonic customers in the ROI who have been affected by this problem.

    The refusal of Panasonic so far to even attempt to provide a solution will undoubtedly affect future purchasing decisions of ROI customers.

    May I also suggest that the following link is investigated by your Engineering support division;

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542668

    I must refer also to an email sent to you by another unhappy customer Ticket Number PHAD-7RLFXL who sets out the problem in great detail.

    Please ensure that this email is forwarded to the relevent engineering department.

    I would very much appreciate you following up this issue for me and I look forward to your response,

    Regards"


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    #153
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,631 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    I uploaded the TX-32LZD81 channel file data to my 37" LZD81. It uploaded no problem however, the stations in these data files are on Channel 54. I'm receiving from Greystones, and the stations are broadcast on Channel 52.

    FYI, I attempted an upload of the Version 2 file for the PZ81's...but incorrect model came up and an error....so only use LZD81 file for LZD81's and PZ81 file for PZ81's.

    Anyone here receiving from Greystones and has an LZD channel data file still active to send onto us?

    Thanks, Astro.

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



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    #154
    Hissing Sideban
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Hissing Sideban


    Firstly, has anyone PZ81 channel list for Mt Leinster?

    Regarding the reasons for this happening, I can confirm that RTE have done this for compatability issues in the border counties, and are unlikely to go back to the previous settings. It is a strict application of the protocol, to the 'Noirdic standard'. Panasonic habeve not implemented the standard correctly

    As far as I know multiplex generator is up at Montrose, not on TX sites, so changes will affect all sites. I could see nothing in the racks or DTV TX's that would indicate local data modulation on site last time I was there, but I could be wrong.

    Rgarding Panasonic's reluctance to do anything, peaking to someone with legal knowledge indicated that there are several possible ways to pursue Panasonic over this.

    'Not fit for purpose' is one, especially since many sets were sold in the Republic, not Grey imported. However, you woudl have to pursue the retailer, not the manufacturer.

    Perhaps Panasonic may act if ther was more widespread bad publicity over their sets, and worries about future compatability and upgrade issues.

    In the USA Panasonic offers firmware downloads for it's sets on it's website, probably because the larger market demands it, and there is more competition


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    #155
    Ninjakettle
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Ninjakettle


    This is probably ≥ a dumb question

    I'm not in Eire at the moment to try this, but given that the panasonics have a CAM slot, could there be any way of putting a NEOTION cam in there and tuning the DTT channels and then saving those (to favourites?)

    not even sure the Neotion cams would work in a Tv that already decodes MPEG4, but just thought i'd ask the question. Also, i've had no reply from panasonic yet since my email.

    I wonder (as Hissing has implied) if playing the not fit for purpose card might be worth a shot as the TV is under a 5 year warranty!?


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    #156
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    The problem is not mpeg decoding. The new service type is not defined in the firmware and the channel scan therefore see such channels as none valid and ignore them. Thats the problem.
    The value 0x16 for the service type has to be added to 1 or 2 selection tables at the dvb-t part of the firmware. That would be the whole fix.


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    #157
    SRB
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Hissing Sideban wrote: »

    Regarding the reasons for this happening, I can confirm that RTE have done this for compatability issues in the border counties, and are unlikely to go back to the previous settings.


    Given the impending switchover in NI and the slow take up of DTT, this seems an odd route to take, as newer boxes will be bought as the switchover approaches and these will be capable of showing the Irish DTT channels, as mentioned before and on other forums, BT Vision boxes already do so.


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    #158
    stephene
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭stephene


    Satfinder wrote: »
    The attached data was taken from a 50PZ81 and applied successfully (phew!) to restore the TV channels on a 46PZ81.

    I used this data to successfully update my 46PZ81 yesterday. Should keep me going for a while anyway.

    Many thanks Satfinder


    Stephen.


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    #159
    pipkato
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭pipkato


    From the above reports, do the experts in this thread think it's safe to apply the data from Satfinder (PZ81_data_Three_Rock_V2.zip) to update a 42PZ81 receiving DTT from Three Rock?

    Has anyone successfully updated this model?


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    #160
    steveq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭steveq


    I also sent an email to Panasonic Support as a disappointed LZD81 owner. No response from them yet though.


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    #161
    Satfinder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭Satfinder


    pipkato wrote: »
    From the above reports, do the experts in this thread think it's safe to apply the data from Satfinder (PZ81_data_Three_Rock_V2.zip) to update a 42PZ81 receiving DTT from Three Rock?
    I'm claiming no expertise, but here is the evidence:
    1. V1 of the data I posted was unedited data from a 50PZ81, which I successfully applied to a 46PZ81;
    2. V2 was an edited version of V1, edited on a 46PZ81 to get the non-channel settings closer to the factory defaults. Stephene has just confirmed that this worked on another 46PZ81;
    3. Astrofluff reported an error message (and not anything more alarming) when trying the PZ81 data on a TX-37LZD81.
    As the person who started this thread, if anyone can confirm that the "PZ81" data works on a 42PZ81, pipkato deserves to know.


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    #162
    Peter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭Peter


    Another email sent here.


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    #163
    bob11
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭bob11


    I received another reply from Panasonic, See below :
    I get the feeling that they are not even reading my emails ..

    I think this response is crap ... Are RTE broadcasting DVB-T2 coding ??
    If the TV can't decode it, why can I receive the channels when I copy someone else's old channel list via SD card ?

    Maybe someone smarter that me can draft another response for me ...

    Ticket number: PHAD-7S7DGR

    ISSUE RESOLUTION: Dear Mr

    Thank you for your further e-mail

    Accordingly I have taken the opportunity to consult our Technical Support Team. They have confirmed that the PZ81 and LZD81 sets were designed for the UK market and as such conform to the DVB-T MPEG 2 specification. The recent test signals from RTE you were able to receive were broadcast on this system.

    It has emerged that the more recent test signals from RTE use MPEG 4 DVB-T2 coding. As such, the television is unable to decode these broadcasts. Regrettably, there are no planned firmware upgrades for these models, as they were never designed for use outside of the UK.

    I trust this clarifies the company’s position on this matter.

    Kind Regards
    Anthony Clarke
    Dealer Support / Correspondence Team
    Panasonic UK Ltd


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    #164
    SRB
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    No, they aren't, they are using DVB-T, MPEG4, and the TV is very obviously able to display this as it did so before. The problem is the service descriptor RTE NL are now using, the TV doesn't "know" what to do with the channels. The service is now flagged as "advanced codec SD digital television service". That the TV doesn't know what to do with a service flagged as such is Panasonic's problem.
    Has anyone e-mailed RTE NL about this ? They may ignore the e-mail or give the "it's a test, not a live service" line, but it may be worth trying.
    Might also be worth sending a sample Transport Stream to Panasonic - let them see for themselves.....


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    #165
    bob11
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭bob11


    Thanks STB ...

    I will email Panasonic back, but I don't fancy my chances ...

    I did email RTE NL a few weeks ago, but no response:

    to rtenl@rte.ie

    date Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:20 PM
    subject Digital TV Engineering Trial


    Hi There,

    I have a query relating to the current DTT engineering trial that is ongoing. Can you please forward this email on to the appropriate department please ?

    I realise that the current Engineering trial is not a guaranteed service, but I just want some clarificaction around a particular issue that I have noticed ..

    I have recently purchase a TX-37LZX81 Panasonic TV that I am using in Dublin.

    I purchased this TV as I was informed that it was compatible with the new Digital TV broadcast format (MPEG-4).

    My TV had been working fine picking up the 4 TV and 4 Radio channels available from ThreeRock, but recently I was prompted to do a rescan for new channels which has now disabled my TV from receiving the 4 TV channels. The Radio Channels are still available.

    It appears that the reason that the TV no longer works is because it does not recognise the service type which has been changed from 0x01 to 0x16 ,22(0x16) = Advanced Codec SD Digital Television Service.

    There is a detailed discussion on this issue on boards.ie http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542668&page=3

    Would it be possible for RTE NL experts to look into this issue and advise if this is something that may be changed back, or if this Service Type change is here to stay.

    I realise that this may be a problem in the way that the Panasonic TV has interpreted the standards, but I'm sure this issue will have an impact on quite a lot of users who have purchased these particular models because of the MPEG4 tuners.

    Thanks in advance for help with this matter and I do understand that during these Engineering tests, parameters and service may change significantly from time to time.

    I just wanted to know if I will need to look at an alternative means to receive the DTT service,

    Thanks again,


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    #166
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    bob11 wrote: »

    Ticket number: PHAD-7S7DGR

    ISSUE RESOLUTION: Dear Mr

    Thank you for your further e-mail

    Accordingly I have taken the opportunity to consult our Technical Support Team. They have confirmed that the PZ81 and LZD81 sets were designed for the UK market and as such conform to the DVB-T MPEG 2 specification. The recent test signals from RTE you were able to receive were broadcast on this system.

    It has emerged that the more recent test signals from RTE use MPEG 4 DVB-T2 coding. As such, the television is unable to decode these broadcasts. Regrettably, there are no planned firmware upgrades for these models, as they were never designed for use outside of the UK.

    It looks like the technical team from Panasonic mixed up the planed UK freeview HD in DVB-T2 with the irish DTT project.
    Nobody in Ireland is planing to introduce DVB-T2 as modulation method. Mpeg compression and modulation are two pairs of shoes.
    RTE is using MPEG4 with bog standard DVB-T as modulation method since july 2008.
    Beside that the Panasonic team didn't understand that only a simple value is missing in 1 or 2 selection tables to make the new service type valid for the dvb-t part of the TV.
    The service type 0x16 which is now in use is definded in the DVB specs and Panasonic promised to follow the DVB specs at the last page of the owners manual but the value 0x16 for the service type is missing in the firmware.


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    #167
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    Hi all,

    Got a silly reply from Customer support, the usual old rubbish so I sent a very stiff reply and copied it to one of the Directors. (Mr. Turu Kihara)

    It will be interesting to see what that will do....If anything.

    If anyone wants that email contact I'll pm it to them. :D

    Cheers


    Aepos


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    #168
    Ninjakettle
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Ninjakettle


    Hi Guys,

    I got the a very similar response from Panasonic today - some excerpts as follows...

    "MPEG 4 decoding only works via the Freesat (satellite) section of the TV"

    "We would advise that you may pick up the required signals by purchase of a set top box that RTE would be marketing for their MPEG 4 based DVB-T system when it is finalised. It is purely down to the original RTE test signals being broadcast on the MPEG2 system prior to changes RTE made that now prevents DVB-T reception on the new MPEG 4 system."

    I'll reply of course - thanks for the specific info STB\maxg on this.
    will knock off a mail to RTENL too.

    J


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    #169
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Apogee


    I think a few people on here have mentioned that they bought their Panasonics in shops in the Republic? If these were official sales, rather than grey imports, then those buyers are the ones with the strongest case against Panasonic. If you get nowhere, then try sending some emails to Conor Pope at the Irish Times - all these companies hate bad publicity.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/pricewatch/


    As an aside, the latest line-up of Irish Panasonics specifically mentions H264 (mpeg 4) in the specs e.g. TX-P50G10L.
    http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+Plasma+and+LCD+TVs/Irish+Viera+Plasma/TX-P50G10L/Specification/2356286/index.html?trackInfo=true

    It would be very interesting to see if these TVs still have the same problem not recognising the "advanced codec flag" - perhaps someone could drop into a friendly local Pansonic dealer to check? The model code suggests that it's a stripped down version of the Freesat TX-P50G10 sold in the UK, and the firmware is probably quite similar in both.
    http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+Plasma+and+LCD+TVs/VIERA+Plasma+TV/TX-P50G10/Specification/2121404/index.html?trackInfo=true


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    #170
    SRB
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    @bob11, Leaving Panasonic aside, it's pretty poor of RTE NL to ignore that e-mail. Perhaps a personal e-mail to RTENL's individual directors, (cc'd to local TD's) might bring a better response.....


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    #171
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,631 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    So the list of people to email so far are:

    Panasonic.co.uk CustomerCare.Advisor@eu.panasonic.com

    RTENL rtenl@rte.ie

    Should there be someone here which has bought any Panasonic TV in the Republic with this problem could also chase up these guys too?!

    Eamonn Ryan, Minister for Communications customer.Service@dcenr.gov.ie

    RTÉ Authority (http://www.rte.ie/about/authority.html)

    Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (http://www.bci.ie/contact/staff_contacts.html) Declan McLoughlin (Broadcasting Standards)

    National Consumer Agency (http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Working_With_You/Submit_a_Consumer_Complaint/) but only if you haven't had any luck with the TV shop!!!!

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



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    #172
    Slicklink
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Slicklink


    Thats complete nonsense regarding them working at mpeg2 tests only as are most of the so called customer care responses.

    My 37LZD81 worked during the MPEG4 tests up until a few weeks ago before RTE changed the service type from "digital terrestrial service" to "Advanced codec SD Terrestrial service" as pointed out earlier in this thread. The TVs were not even on the market when RTE stopped the MPEG2 trial in July 2008.

    Surely, the UK do not have a special opt out from following DVB standards ? If panasonic refuse to admit the problem or explain techical detail why it cant be fixed, persist with the its only for the UK approach, and dont roll out a firmware fix for little old Ireland, I will personally post it back to them in small pieces and vow to tell as many people how crap the backup from panasonic is. I mean its not brain surgery. They would had to have defined the firmware for the "E" version of this series of TV for France.

    The French wouldnt put up with this sh*te.


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    #173
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    Maybe the owners of the pz81/lzd81 series should complain again and describe exactly the problem. It looks like the panasonic team is not able to fully understand the problem.
    RTE changed the service type from 0x01 to 0x16 for tv channels in the service description data.
    The exact problem is the channel scan.
    If a automatic setup in dvb mode delete the channel list the following channel scan is not willing to store tv channels which are marked with service type 0x16 in the service description data.
    If someone don't do a new channel scan the irish channels are still fully working.
    If someone upload a backup channel list via the hotel.pwd method the irish tv channels are also fully working.
    The problem is the channel scan which is not able to store tv channel with service type 0x16 because the value 0x16 is not defined in 1 or 2 selection table(s).


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    #174
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    maxg...

    You are perfectly correct they don't have a clue what is wrong. From what I have read in this forum the majority of complainants including myself have directed the support people to this site.

    They either are non technical support staff, can't read English, don't give a hoot or possibly all three!!

    I suggest that all future email complaints are copied to Panasonic UK Directors which is my present modus operandi.

    Interestingly enough my last email was responded to this morning with no comment from the sender...... :confused:

    Cheers Ae


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    #175
    bob11
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭bob11


    I have followed Aepos's lead and I have copied the directors on my latest email ... I have also questioned their ability to read what I have told them numerous times ..
    Let's see if we get anywhere ...


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    #176
    netwhizkid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭netwhizkid


    Panasonic have lost over €1,000 from me over this as I was on the verge of buying a 46" PZ81B with Freesat etc. I now don't know what to do as I want the TV I buy to have an integrated tuner that works! If something like this happened in the UK the BBC's Watchdog would tear Panasonic to shreds over it.


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    #177
    steveq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭steveq


    This is the reply I got this morning. By the way Aepos, the reply was at the bottom of the emails after 2 confidentiality notices and before the last one -- it is hard to find.

    [FONT=&quot]ISSUE RESOLUTION: Dear Mr XXXXX,

    Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

    In response, I would explain that these sets are fully compliant with the UK Standard DVB-T system.

    There are no plans to upgrade these models to receive DVB-T broadcasts not compliant with the UK system.

    I trust this clarifies the company’s position on this matter.


    [/FONT]


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    #178
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    From the owners manual page 68:

    DVB TX-32lzd81 Declaration of Conformity No. 5755, 23 June 2008
    .......TX-37lzd81 Declaration of Conformity No. 5756, 23 June 2008

    Either Panasonic is lying in that declarations or they are not lying.
    Its up to Panasonic now to clarify that point.


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    #179
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    Thanks steveq, I found it buried in the email... It would appear to be an F off we don't give a toss reply. So much for customer support / satisfaction. Still I will persist in sending on the stuff up the chain of command.....

    Ae


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    #180
    Aepos
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Aepos


    Latest Rant to Panasonic Higher echelons:


    Good evening gentlemen,

    I attach a series of emails concerning difficulties involving certain freesat lcd tv models sold in Ireland both North and South.

    It would appear from the negative response contained in replies to these communications that Panasonic does not wish to assist the many customers who own these sets in any way to resolve the problem.

    It is also understood by the many highly qualified technical persons involved in discussions relating to this problem that a simple firmware fix would overcome this issue.


    The following discussion forum may be of interest to you:-

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542668

    All the users who have encountered this difficulty are astounded at the poor response from your company.

    Panasonic is in Ireland considered to be a premium brand and as such purchasers of expensive equipment do expect a more enlightened response to such requests.
    It must also be realised that by attempting a fix for this problem Panasonic will retrieve the goodwill from disappointed customers with a consequent boost to sales and reputation, which I am sure in these austere times would be good for Panasonic.

    I trust the above may be of interest to you, if not then I apologise for wasting your time.

    Regards,


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    #181
    Down Exile
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Down Exile


    I have just uploaded the data from the 32LZD81 onto my 37LZD81 and it has worked! The only downside is that there is no EPG, but I suppose having DTT is better than nothing. The digital teletext works OK.

    The only difference is that the download of my original settings puts the hotel.pwd in the root directory of the SD card and the other files are put in a sub directory.


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