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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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    #2882
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    rounders wrote: »
    Do you have anything link to more info on this? All i could find was a article on C103 from a few weeks back

    There's a VMS on the approach to the town displaying the notification.


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    #2883
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Actual construction:

    The roundabout proposed as part of the M20 scheme at O'Rourke's Cross looks likely to go ahead.

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/242880/road-designs-to-improve-dangerous-limerick-junctions.html


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    #2884
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    marno21 wrote: »
    Actual construction:

    The roundabout proposed as part of the M20 scheme at O'Rourke's Cross looks likely to go ahead.

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/242880/road-designs-to-improve-dangerous-limerick-junctions.html

    This is simply a road safety improvement on the N20 rather than anything to do with the M20. The article says there's also one being built at Brearys Crosss on the N24.


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    #2885
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MOD: I have moved the current discussion about how the M20 will effect services/airports in the two cities to a new thread. Please continue the discussion there.

    I'll leave this thread then for updates on how the project is progressing, rather than a debate about the effects of the road on the cities.


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    #2886
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    This is simply a road safety improvement on the N20 rather than anything to do with the M20. The article says there's also one being built at Brearys Crosss on the N24.
    Yes, I am aware of that.

    In my post I mentioned that a roundabout was to be constructed at O'Rourkes Cross as part of the M20 scheme. This roundabout is now going ahead independent of the M20 scheme.


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    #2887
    BlinkingLights
    Closed Accounts Posts: 910 ✭✭✭BlinkingLights


    marno21 wrote: »
    MOD: I have moved the current discussion about how the M20 will effect services/airports in the two cities to a new thread. Please continue the discussion there.

    I'll leave this thread then for updates on how the project is progressing, rather than a debate about the effects of the road on the cities.

    Is there a link to that thread ? It might help avoid posting confusion.


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    #2888
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    BlinkingLights wrote: »
    Is there a link to that thread ? It might help avoid posting confusion.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057724528


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    #2889
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Donohue welcoming M20 submissions for Capital Plan Midterm Review

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/244360/views-sought-on-limerick-cork-m20-as-public-consultation-process-opens.html


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    #2890
    Mc Love
    Registered Users Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love


    marno21 wrote: »
    Donohue welcoming M20 submissions for Capital Plan Midterm Review

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/244360/views-sought-on-limerick-cork-m20-as-public-consultation-process-opens.html

    Is there something uniform we should be sending them? I dont use the road a whole lot but if I was and when I did it would have been an absolute blessing to have a motorway and I would definitely travel a lot more to Cork should there be a motorway


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    #2891
    cjpm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭cjpm


    marno21 wrote: »
    Donohue welcoming M20 submissions for Capital Plan Midterm Review

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/244360/views-sought-on-limerick-cork-m20-as-public-consultation-process-opens.html



    If you don't want to read the full article....


    Submissions should be emailed to capitalreview2017@per.gov.ie

    Take the time to send an e-mail, might be a good idea to CC your local TD to let them know who badly this is needed too.


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    #2892
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    marno21 wrote: »
    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/244360/views-sought-on-limerick-cork-m20-as-public-consultation-process-opens.html
    The Limerick Leader wrote:
    Plans to upgrade the existing N20 were shelved in October 2013 by the then Transport minister, Leo Varadakar, who said the cost – likely to be around €1bn - was “not feasible†given the state of the country’s finances.
    As I said before, this has always struck me as a bullsh1t excuse - motorways are never built in one fell swoop - and if you split the M20 into small enough pieces (town-to-town), you could get it done over a number of years, and at least make a start on the most dangerous stretch south of Buttevant.

    A Mallow to Buttevant link would be about 11km of road - how much would that cost?


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    #2893
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    serfboard wrote: »
    As I said before, this has always struck me as a bullsh1t excuse - motorways are never built in one fell swoop - and if you split the M20 into small enough pieces (town-to-town), you could get it done over a number of years, and at least make a start on the most dangerous stretch south of Buttevant.

    A Mallow to Buttevant link would be about 11km of road - how much would that cost?

    Roughly €100 million


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    #2894
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    serfboard wrote: »
    As I said before, this has always struck me as a bullsh1t excuse - motorways are never built in one fell swoop - and if you split the M20 into small enough pieces (town-to-town), you could get it done over a number of years, and at least make a start on the most dangerous stretch south of Buttevant.

    A Mallow to Buttevant link would be about 11km of road - how much would that cost?

    It's all an excuse. The M20 isn't ready to be built, far from it in fact and money has to be spent on planning it, land purchase etc. If they spent that money today (maybe 12-15m between now and 2019 end) the M20 would be ready to go in 2021 or so. At the moment we are at least 4/5 years away from the project starting because it's nothing more than a concept at present. No one is asking the government to stump up 1bn, even if they had it they couldn't because the scheme doesn't have planning yet.

    Bull**** excuses.


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    #2895
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    More guff
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/cork-limerick-motorway-viable-says-michael-noonan-785757.html


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    #2896
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭Limerick74


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    More guff
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/cork-limerick-motorway-viable-says-michael-noonan-785757.html

    Tolls would be a disaster for the M20 with a decent toll free route beside it. Would definitely hurt the cost benefit with lower usage.


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    #2897
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Tolls would be a disaster for the M20 with a decent toll free route beside it. Would definitely hurt the cost benefit with lower usage.

    Why put tolls on the M20 and not on the M17 or the M18? Oh, yea, the M17 and M18 were not going to get sufficient numbers to even pay the collectors wages.

    The Shannon tunnel does not make the numbers so why would the M20, and where would it be tolled? To make tolling work, there is usually a very long stretch so it cannot be avoided, so where would that be?.

    Nonsense.


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    #2898
    medoc
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭medoc


    While 1 billion euro is a massive amount of money to borrow, in the grand scheme of things it's a no brainer in this instance. We borrowed many multiples of that to bail out banks and even to balance day to day spending. With the benifit to the economy locally and nationally from this road in addition to employing hundreds for years on construction, we should bite the bullit and borrow specially for this project.

    I'd make the same arguments for Dart underground and Metro North and even the NBP. Can exceptions be made to EU budgetary rules for these exceptional projects. Maybe use Brexit negotiations to get exemptions for infrastructure projects. Our borrowing rates are low at the moment.


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    #2899
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    One Billion Euro divided by 5 million population.... it's not a huge sum really and would pay for itself in saved lives/ reduced injuries in a few years.

    As said to toll it you'd need a long stretch, even if you had just exits for Mallow and Charleville, where would you put the toll booths?


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    #2900
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Isambard wrote: »
    One Billion Euro divided by 5 million population.... it's not a huge sum really and would pay for itself in saved lives/ reduced injuries in a few years.

    As said to toll it you'd need a long stretch, even if you had just exits for Mallow and Charleville, where would you put the toll booths?

    The reason the M20 was refused planning permission in 2011 was the lack of a Buttevant junction. There will have to be a junction at Buttevant.


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    #2901
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    marno21 wrote: »
    The reason the M20 was refused planning permission in 2011 was the lack of a Buttevant junction. There will have to be a junction at Buttevant.

    in fairness I wasn't proposing that at all.


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    #2902
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Isambard wrote: »
    in fairness I wasn't proposing that at all.

    No I realise that I was just saying that there will have to be an exit between Mallow and Charleville so it rules it out. The M20 isn't really tollable and when this is actually being ironed out Noonan won't be relevant anymore.


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    #2903
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    marno21 wrote: »
    The reason the M20 was refused planning permission in 2011 was the lack of a Buttevant junction. There will have to be a junction at Buttevant.

    Nah the locals lobbied for a Buttevant junction and they were granted it. It didn't get refused planning permission at all... Varadker, in one of the only stupid things hes ever done I have to say, pulled the planning because the government didn't have the cash to cover the CPOs which they'd have had to pay out straight away IIRC.


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    #2904
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    While I'd obviously prefer no toll, I'd still pay for it if it was there and was the only way of getting the project up and running. To go via Mitchelstown (which I've found to be quicker most of the time than using the N20) you have to pay anyway so it's no big deal really. The time and fuel savings are more than worth it.


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    #2905
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Senator Kieran O'Donnell is hosting a public information meeting on the Capital Plan Review, specifically to do with the M20, on Tueday the 18th at 8pm in the South Court Hotel. Representatives from Engineers Ireland and Limerick Chamber of Commerce will be there.


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    #2906
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    98% of businesses in the Cork/Limerick area support the M20.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/businesses-back-new-cork-limerick-motorway-survey-finds-1.3052549


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    #2907
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    marno21 wrote: »
    98% of businesses in the Cork/Limerick area support the M20.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/businesses-back-new-cork-limerick-motorway-survey-finds-1.3052549

    Now to get the damn thing off the ground.


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    #2908
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    KC161 wrote: »
    marno21 wrote: »
    98% of businesses in the Cork/Limerick area support the M20.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/businesses-back-new-cork-limerick-motorway-survey-finds-1.3052549

    Now to get the damn thing off the ground.
    Like a monorail? Nice
    Why not just toll it in one direction eg Cork to Limerick


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    #2909
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Like a monorail? Nice
    Why not just toll it in one direction eg Cork to Limerick

    A toll has been suggested by Michael Noonan.

    It'll end up being a PPP i reckon.


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    #2910
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Like a monorail? Nice
    Why not just toll it in one direction eg Cork to Limerick

    Why not build it in one direction? :)

    There are tolls that only charge one direction, but they are generally bridges where there in no alternative. Most trucks avoided the M4 toll when it opened but I think they are now using it.


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    #2911
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    If we hadn't inexplicably bailed-out the non-systemic Anglo Irish Bank we would't have the amount of debt we now have and could have borrowed directly for this, and many other projects, at historically low interest rates.

    But we did, and now we can't, so it has to be PPP or nothing.

    Where would you put a toll? On the sh1ttiest and most dangerous section of road - so you have two candidates, IMO:

    1. On the Buttevant bypass, or just south of it.

    2. On the Charleville bypass, or just north of it.


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