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Your favourite unsolved mystery?

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    #2192
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,869 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    goose2005 wrote: »
    The Isdal Woman. Reads like the opening of a John le Carré novel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isdal_Woman
    Never heard that one before. It almost reads like a pisstake of those kinds of novels, how many obscure details can you fit in one Wikipedia article? A silver spoon with the monogram filed off? South American dentistry?


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    #2193
    CINCLANTFLT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭CINCLANTFLT


    goose2005 wrote: »
    The Isdal Woman. Reads like the opening of a John le Carré novel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isdal_Woman

    And as a link from this article.... an Irish mystery! Sorry if anyone else has posted it before, but it's new to me!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Bergmann_Case


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    #2194
    sashafierce
    Registered Users Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭sashafierce


    This post has been deleted.


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    #2195
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,044 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    CINCLANTFLT wrote: »
    And as a link from this article.... an Irish mystery! Sorry if anyone else has posted it before, but it's new to me!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Bergmann_Case

    The Gardai have lot to answer for if what it says is true.

    Surely they should have appealed to the German , Austrian and even Swiss Police


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    #2196
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    If the McCann's were from Ballymun, they would have been prosecuted for leaving the children unsupervised.

    Is that a crime?


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    #2197
    KKkitty
    Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭KKkitty


    Maddie's mother allegedly didn't answer important questions when asked. If any of my children went missing I'd answer each question no matter what.


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    #2198
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I don't think it is silly. Yes, they lost their child but that doesn't take away from the fact that they weren't showing the appropriate level of care that is required under law.

    If I was p1ssed drunk and crashed my car killing my child, do you think I should get a lighter sentence? No would be my thinking. It should have been the same for them. They should have been prosecuted for leaving their children unattended while they enjoyed themselves with their friends.

    I think they probably got off lightly because of their profession, their high ranking contacts etc.

    Your question is one I can't answer and I'm not sure about prosecuting the McCann's for leaving Madeline and the other children alone. They are already in a living nightmare and no prison sentence will change that.

    Of course that's if they weren't involved directly in her disappearance. My feeling is they weren't but like I said I'm open to other viewpoints.


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    #2199
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Deleted User wrote:
    Of course that's if they weren't involved directly in her disappearance. My feeling is they weren't but like I said I'm open to other viewpoints.


    What are you basing that assertion on?

    Have you properly looked into this case beyond placing your own behaviour onto what you'd expect them to do and what was said on Sky News and the like?


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    #2200
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    ligerdub wrote: »
    What are you basing that assertion on?

    Have you properly looked into this case beyond placing your own behaviour onto what you'd expect them to do and what was said on Sky News and the like?

    It has been ages since I have read anything about it (always avoided Sky News and other tabloids) but IIRC there was no evidence against them. A hell of a lot of innuendo was thrown around regardless. Nobody does thuggery quite like tabloid rags. All the other accusations made against them were either from disgraced police officers or from the court of social media. No substance behind any of it as far as I could see.


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    #2201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ligerdub wrote: »
    What are you basing that assertion on?

    Have you properly looked into this case beyond placing your own behaviour onto what you'd expect them to do and what was said on Sky News and the like?

    I've seen the interviews and read about possible suspects and connections the McCann's may have. Maybe it's because I simply can't imagine how two people can cover up the death of their child and then continue on as if they are trying their damndest to find her abductor. For years they have been campaigning. It just doesn't sit right with me.

    I must go and do a bit of digging now. I know there is a book written by a Portugese prosecutor which I must read.


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    #2202
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    ligerdub wrote: »
    What are you basing that assertion on?

    Have you properly looked into this case beyond placing your own behaviour onto what you'd expect them to do and what was said on Sky News and the like?

    Oh this thread is being unravelled again...

    Nobody knows what happened to the poor child and blaming the parents, who may have made the mistake of leaving her for periods of time to dine with friends on holiday, of a heinous murder with scant evidence is something else entirely.

    It's the most terrible thing to accuse a parent of, unless there's direct evidence proving otherwise. I can't imagine what they've gone through these past years and putting up with amateur armchair detectives accusing them of murdering their own child, then coldly, cleverly and fiendishly disposing of her in a foreign place so well she's never been found, all with the eyes of the world media on them in the midst of unimaginable grief leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

    They are either criminal masterminds or the most unjustly maligned parents in history. Either way, if you or anyone else has evidence the Portuguese or British police don't have, you should report it or else perhaps stop making such accusations altogether.


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    #2203
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ligerdub wrote: »
    Have you properly looked into this case beyond placing your own behaviour onto what you'd expect them to do and what was said on Sky News and the like?

    Are most assessments not based "on Sky news and the like?"

    In that it's not as if people have direct access to the evidence, to witnesses, and are only relying on the portrayal of same in the media, books etc. that all may be influenced one way or the other. What pure unbiased source is there?


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    #2204
    CINCLANTFLT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭CINCLANTFLT


    Ah for frck sake, back to the mysteries!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Colvin_Cox

    Richard Colvin Cox (25 July 1928 – last seen 14 January 1950) was a second-year cadet who disappeared from the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, in 1950. He had recently been visited three times by a mysterious soldier, just known as ‘George’, with whom Cox had served in an army intelligence section in Germany. On the last visit, the two of them left the grounds of the Academy, and were never seen again. Cox is the only West Point cadet who ever disappeared without being found dead or alive.


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    #2205
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Oh this thread is being unravelled again...

    Nobody knows what happened to the poor child and blaming the parents, who may have made the mistake of leaving her for periods of time to dine with friends on holiday, of a heinous murder with scant evidence is something else entirely.

    It's the most terrible thing to accuse a parent of, unless there's direct evidence proving otherwise. I can't imagine what they've gone through these past years and putting up with amateur armchair detectives accusing them of murdering their own child, then coldly, cleverly and fiendishly disposing of her in a foreign place so well she's never been found, all with the eyes of the world media on them in the midst of unimaginable grief leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

    They are either criminal masterminds or the most unjustly maligned parents in history. Either way, if you or anyone else has evidence the Portuguese or British police don't have, you should report it or else perhaps stop making such accusations altogether.

    I never said they murdered her, so you can strike that one for starters.

    This idea of them being criminal masterminds or that they are immune from criticism is entirely the reason why guilty parties can hide in plain sight for so long. It would not be that difficult for them to dispose of the poor child's body given the time involved. It's odd that so many years later, and despite the widely discredited theory about the man taking his child from a crèche being the abductor it still remained as the only picture on their site for a long time. Only recently did they include a picture of the person seen holding a still girl near an Irish pub out on the streets at 10pm for some reason. That picture looks suspiciously like Gerry McCann.

    The defence of them in terms of protecting them from those who criticise them would be fair enough were they not whoring themselves out to all and sundry yet choosing to spend their money primarily on legal costs rather than focusing on the child herself. Their excessive spending on PR for themselves(!) is also rather suspicious.

    You'd also have to take into account the amount of money ploughed into this campaign when there are countless other disappeared children who have practically zero financial support. What are they going to spend that money on if they get it now, more money for their PR team? The idea of a fair and balanced investigation was lost when major political figures got involved. Once that happened then it became an international relations event, and they were never going to be properly grilled on it.

    Kate lied about the weather conditions that night (door slammed) behind her because it was a windy night, she lied about the jimmied windows. Why did she not answer any of the police questions? Why were her finger prints found on the shutters but nobody else's?

    Is Gerrys presence accounted for for the entire evening? Why are they so suspicious of the sniffer dogs? I mean they are so hellbent on refusing to even tolerate that idea that's it's immediately suspicious.

    The abduction theory is the one they are sticking to? Where is the evidence for this? Where is the motive? Why did they only abduct one child instead of three that were there? Why has there been no trace of her in the time since? Why has there been no request to use leverage from these so called abductors in the time since?

    Of course you're entitled to stick up for them all you want, sincerely, but don't throw around this idea that there's no **** on them that needs to be answered, because that's abundantly clear to be rubbish. There is absolutely no evidence that there was a break-in or abduction, there is every reason to believe the child died in the apartment and K&G are lying about what happened that night. There is an accepted narrative that you're the bad guy if you question anything about the McCanns, and that they are going through hell and the like, and leave them be, it's just not true. The justice here is for the child, she is the victim here.


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    #2206
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Are most assessments not based "on Sky news and the like?"

    In that it's not as if people have direct access to the evidence, to witnesses, and are only relying on the portrayal of same in the media, books etc. that all may be influenced one way or the other. What pure unbiased source is there?

    Step 1, avoid sky news, for every story.

    Do what you want after that, it'll be an improvement.


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    #2207
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    ligerdub wrote: »
    I never said they murdered her, so you can strike that one for starters.

    This idea of them being criminal masterminds or that they are immune from criticism is entirely the reason why guilty parties can hide in plain sight for so long. It would not be that difficult for them to dispose of the poor child's body given the time involved. It's odd that so many years later, and despite the widely discredited theory about the man taking his child from a crèche being the abductor it still remained as the only picture on their site for a long time. Only recently did they include a picture of the person seen holding a still girl near an Irish pub out on the streets at 10pm for some reason. That picture looks suspiciously like Gerry McCann.

    The defence of them in terms of protecting them from those who criticise them would be fair enough were they not whoring themselves out to all and sundry yet choosing to spend their money primarily on legal costs rather than focusing on the child herself. Their excessive spending on PR for themselves(!) is also rather suspicious.

    You'd also have to take into account the amount of money ploughed into this campaign when there are countless other disappeared children who have practically zero financial support. What are they going to spend that money on if they get it now, more money for their PR team? The idea of a fair and balanced investigation was lost when major political figures got involved. Once that happened then it became an international relations event, and they were never going to be properly grilled on it.
    When you are in the public eye, especially as much as they are, then PR is a necessary evil. I am not sure of the costs, but all I do know is PR does not come cheap. If you are going on the TV circuit then media coaching is no bad thing.

    I think a fair and balanced investigation was impossible from the moment the police arrived on the scene. They were incompetent to say the least.
    ligerdub wrote: »
    Kate lied about the weather conditions that night (door slammed) behind her because it was a windy night, she lied about the jimmied windows. Why did she not answer any of the police questions? Why were her finger prints found on the shutters but nobody else's?

    Is Gerrys presence accounted for for the entire evening? Why are they so suspicious of the sniffer dogs? I mean they are so hellbent on refusing to even tolerate that idea that's it's immediately suspicious.

    The abduction theory is the one they are sticking to? Where is the evidence for this? Where is the motive? Why did they only abduct one child instead of three that were there? Why has there been no trace of her in the time since? Why has there been no request to use leverage from these so called abductors in the time since?

    Of course you're entitled to stick up for them all you want, sincerely, but don't throw around this idea that there's no **** on them that needs to be answered, because that's abundantly clear to be rubbish. There is absolutely no evidence that there was a break-in or abduction, there is every reason to believe the child died in the apartment and K&G are lying about what happened that night. There is an accepted narrative that you're the bad guy if you question anything about the McCanns, and that they are going through hell and the like, and leave them be, it's just not true. The justice here is for the child, she is the victim here.
    Quite the opposite. It seems that everybody has had a go at them at one time or another. All this without a shred of evidence.


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    #2208
    learn_more
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭learn_more


    What my friends family acquaintances really think of me


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    #2209
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Are most assessments not based "on Sky news and the like?"

    In that it's not as if people have direct access to the evidence, to witnesses, and are only relying on the portrayal of same in the media, books etc. that all may be influenced one way or the other. What pure unbiased source is there?

    Are you aware the transcripts of the police interviews have been released. See the doctors umm, ahh and contradict themselves in their own words.


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    #2210
    D0NNELLY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭D0NNELLY


    Probably deserves its own thread.


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    #2211
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    Are you aware the transcripts of the police interviews have been released. See the doctors umm, ahh and contradict themselves in their own words.

    All released...or some selectively leaked?

    You got a link? Thanks. When I google it it refers to a journalist getting hold of some transcripts, which is not the same as releasing all statements.


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    #2212
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    Deleted User wrote: »
    All released...or some selectively leaked?

    You got a link? Thanks. When I google it it refers to a journalist getting hold of some transcripts, which is not the same as releasing all statements.

    Not leaked. Offically released as it Portuguese process
    http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/



    The official case file released to the public on DVD comprised 11,223 pages of documents in four parts:


    The main case file (Processo: 17 volumes, 4,717 pages) supported by-

    the file of sightings around the world (Apenso 5: 14 volumes, 2,550 pages),

    other information appendices (Outro Apensos: 21 volumes, 3,407 pages) and

    interviews conducted in England under a request for Mutual Legal Assistance.

    (Cartas Rogatorias: 9 volumes, 549 pages. Total - 1.07GB.


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    #2213
    jones
    Registered Users Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭jones


    Brilliant thread so many good mysteries that i hadnt heard of


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    #2214
    fxotoole
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    CINCLANTFLT wrote: »
    Ah for frck sake, back to the mysteries!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Colvin_Cox

    Richard Colvin Cox (25 July 1928 – last seen 14 January 1950) was a second-year cadet who disappeared from the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, in 1950. He had recently been visited three times by a mysterious soldier, just known as ‘George’, with whom Cox had served in an army intelligence section in Germany. On the last visit, the two of them left the grounds of the Academy, and were never seen again. Cox is the only West Point cadet who ever disappeared without being found dead or alive.

    If he was military intelligence, it would probably be fairly easy for him to pull a Houdini and disappear without leaving any traces behind.


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    #2215
    readytosnap
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭readytosnap


    Why I ever agreed to marry my wife, that will never be solved.


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    #2216
    Father Hernandez
    Registered Users Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭Father Hernandez


    I've followed this thread for a short while, gone through every page, contributed and find the stories here fascinating.

    However, sorry to rain on the Maddie McCann mystery parade but there is a thread for that in the conspiracy theories forum if those speaking about it could kindly move over there to discuss.

    I found that this thread is for sharing new mysteries of people, etc and I for one get excited when I get a notification for this thread.

    Could we get this thread back on track mods please ?


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    #2217
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    The Jill Dando case always baffles me.

    Like why?


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    #2218
    topmanamillion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,294 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    fxotoole wrote: »
    If he was military intelligence, it would probably be fairly easy for him to pull a Houdini and disappear without leaving any traces behind.

    Why was he getting pissed with "George" so?
    If this guy was some sort of handler surely they wouldn't have been downing whiskey together.

    Far more likely "George" (most likely an alias) was a bit of a head case RIchard Cox had met in Germany. He bragged about killing various people mostly German soldiers but also a German girl he had gotten pregnant.
    The scenario that makes the most sense is Cox was afraid of George and agreed to meet him because of that. George`s short fuse went off one night and he killed Cox, probably in his car when Cox was pissed.
    He buried him in the forests/scrub land around the area. If George was ex-military he`d be well capable of disappearing into the wind and never being seen again.


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    #2219
    Littlefinger
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Littlefinger


    My favourite unsolved mystery is rather tame compared to some others on this thread. It is whether George Mallory and Andrew Irvine made it to the top of Mount Everest before they died.


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    #2220
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    LordSutch wrote: »
    The Jill Dando case always baffles me.

    Like why?

    What was she working on at the time?


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    #2221
    Mouseslayer17
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Mouseslayer17


    What happened with fr Molloy,?
    There was lots of legal chicanery if I remember rightly


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