Cabaal wrote: » By your logic we never should have had a referendum on marriage equality, instead we should have just respected what was in the constitution already. The constitution is not some unchanging document, its important that it reflects the views of the society we live in and right now when it comes to the 8th that doesn't appear to be the case (amongst other inclusions in it!). The only way to settle this issue is to allow the people to vote on it. In relation to our constitution and respecting what is in it,. wasn't that one of the arguments put forward by Lolek Ltd & Co when they lobbied against marriage equality? They didn't respect what people wanted to change, and when the country voted yes we still had people that didn't respect that outcome as they tried to delay the outcome over and over by going to the highcourt. The bottom line is nobody has got to vote on the 8th issue thats below the age of 40, we the people are entitled to have our say. If as you say people should respect "life" then you have nothing to worry about as clearly no referendum will pass in your world.
frostyjacks wrote: » I'm not seeing any desire amongst the general population to change the status quo,
Kole Round Spectator wrote: » Obviously not, a miscarriage is natural. Its like comparing someone dying of natural causes to someone who is shot. Ahh I was being sarcastic and pointing out the contradiction of people in favour of abortion who are highlighting stuff like "bodily integrity" and you can't violate it while campaigning for the violation of the bodily integrity of the unborn child. As usual people trying to force abortion into Ireland are clinging on to exceptional and difficult cases to make their point when the reality is they want perfectly healthy mothers to be allowed kill their perfectly healthy babies just because they feel like it.
frostyjacks wrote: » There are more pressing issues facing the average man and woman on the street.
Kole Round Spectator wrote: » I think its a barbaric practice that should be outlawed except in very specific circumstances such as the mother will definitely die without the procedure.
frostyjacks wrote: » You already are entitled to have your say on abortion, nothing is stopping that. I'm sorry that we didn't have a time machine back then to zap you all back from the future and help swing the vote for abortion, but that's how a referendum works. Only the people who were eligible to vote at the time were allowed to vote. People need to accept democracy, even when it doesn't work out how they would like.
Absolam wrote: » How?
aloyisious wrote: » I mused about this topic wondering if, had abortion been legal here in the past, many of those posting here (including myself) may have been denied the chance.
volchitsa wrote: » Funny, that's a question I honestly cannot understand. My parents were 21 and 24 when I was born, and my sister a year later, then a brother - so if contraception had been legal back then (I'm 50) then presumably I wouldn't be here now. And maybe at least one of the other two as well. Does that mean I think contraception should not be available for my daughters now? Absolutely not. If my parents hadn't had me, well so what? I wouldn't be here so it wouldn't bother me, would it? And presumably because they had us when they were so young, there were several other children they didn't have ten years later. Maybe those non existent kids were far more brilliant than any of the ones they did have, who knows?
The Randy Riverbeast wrote: » Didn't need to be legal here, our mothers just would have had to get the money and time off to travel. For some it would have been easy, for others it would have been near impossible.
lazygal wrote: » My mother has been open about her use of contraception and the fact each and every one of her pregnancies were planned, even though not all went to term. She's now completely opposed to the eighth amendment. She thought you could get an abortion here for cases of rape or FFA and I had to explain that in Ireland unless a doctor thinks your life is at enough of a risk no abortion here is available. I know she was worried about me during my pregnancies as I had some complications and has expressed the thought that if she was of childbearing age she wouldn't feel safe here.
lazygal wrote: » The eighth amendment is one reason I'm not sure I want another child.
rainbow kirby wrote: » And why I'm thankful I'm having my little one in London!
wp_rathead wrote: »
aloyisious wrote: » This part of it: to provide for an offence of intentional destruction of unborn human life;.....
aloyisious wrote: » Edit/add-on.... This is meant for anyone for anyone who wishes to have the 8th amendment retained, as is, within the constitution. Would you prefer the 1861 act which outlawed abortion to be re-enacted, bearing in mind that the offence of causing death by abortion was covered by the act. POLDPA includes an offence of intentional destruction of unborn human life, referring to any destructions carried out outside the prescribed legal methods and reasons in POLDPA.
robdonn wrote: » I'm leaving London at the end of this year to move back to Dublin to start planting the seeds of a family, but this is a huge issue that makes me second-guess the move. My gf is a midwife here in London and she's fearing working in midwifery back in Ireland.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Between this and the absolute clusterfcuk that is the education system here (for anyone who isn't a catholic looking to raise little catholics) I'd say stay where you are.
Kiwi in IE wrote: » I have explained how extreme the law is here to my family and friends back home, and they are all very concerned that we are trying for another child, with the complications of fertility treatment, in this country. All knew that Ireland has backward abortion laws, but like someone mentioned above, most assume that relates only to 'on demand', not rape, FFA and health of woman. All have been shocked and horrified that a 1st world country would treat women like that in this day and age. After my mother read about Savita Halappanavar in a NZ newspaper, she rang me and said she doesn't think I should risk trying to get pregnant here and should return home until we have finished our family/trying to extend our family.
frostyjacks wrote: » Can you kindly tell your mother that Ireland has a lower infant mortality rate than NZ? You would be taking a greater risk by having a baby over there.
lazygal wrote: » So simply not dying is your benchmark for safety. Ireland's maternity services are notoriously poor at reporting maternal mortality rates anyway, so they're not accurate statistics. Ireland's maternity services are middling. There's some good things but I wouldn't describe them as world class, especially when doctors have to wait until your life is at risk before intervening. If I'm in Savita's situation I want an abortion when I ask for one, not when the doctor and laws decide I'm close enough to dying.
frostyjacks wrote: » Ireland's maternity services have a very good reputation, as good as anywhere else in the world. So I would describe them as world-class.
frostyjacks wrote: » Ireland's maternity services have a very good reputation, as good as anywhere else in the world. So I would describe them as world-class. Savita died from human error, not our abortion laws. I really wish the poor girl would be allowed to rest in peace, and not have her corpse dug up and paraded around to score political points.
One eyed Jack wrote: » That just looks like using semantics you're more comfortable with, as the outcome of either perspective is exactly the same.
One eyed Jack wrote: » people who simply do not share your wish to refer to their unborn child as a foetus or whatever other terms you'd use to distance yourself from reality as much as possible.
One eyed Jack wrote: » I'm also not going to attempt to be so reductionist in an attempt to distance myself from reality because it makes me uncomfortable.
One eyed Jack wrote: » I hate some of the nonsense terminology and spin used by anyone to try and make out like they're in the right and everyone else is wrong
lazygal wrote: » Savita asked for an abortion when she was miscarrying and was refused. That's not the type of maternity service I want to have another child in. A good reputation doesn't mean the actual services are good. Plenty of schools, for example, have good reputations, that doesn't mean I'd send my children to them.
frostyjacks wrote: » Why don't mothers emigrate then, if we're so backwards here? The opposite is actually true; people are coming here to start families.
