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S506 - Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken - Have Read the Books

Demonique

I thought I recognised Mr. Eko

So Margaery's been arrested for a different reason that she was in the books

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[Deleted User]

I run to praise this show when it deserves it, and it does quite often deserve it, but I have to chime in with my two cents on this week's showdown in Dorne...

Is this a different show? Do D+D have some old camera and choreographing friends who used to work on Xena, but D+D are throwing them a bone now with some GoT work as second unit crew?? I hope somebody gets a bollocking from a HBO exec over the production values of that scene, it brought the show right down IMO. All it was missing was the Benny Hill music.

The Sand Snakes - I was never their greatest fan in the books, but feel they could have been handled so much better in the show. Might it have been possible to cast the roles more carefully? I feel the current crop have been pulled out of their third week in drama school, given two afternoons of 'combat training', and flung in front of the camera with a "It'll be grand" sort of direction, their lines read from a prompter.

Elaria is like a different character than the one who accompanied Oberyn to King's Landing and moved many viewers in some scenes last season. I'm sure that actress is happy to be working on a prime-time HBO show, I just hope she has no emotional attachment to the character and can 'switch-off' once she clocks out of her day's work.

Jaime and Bronn's march into Sunspear felt like a walk in the park. If only poor 8-bit Mario had this easy a time gaining access to a castle to rescue a princess, the games would have been a bore.

All that said, the Water Gardens set is impressive. Alexander Siddig as Doran and the guy playing Hotah are doing good work despite the hollow and scarce material. However, these silver linings don't really matter as the clouds they are among are just too vast and grey.

Apart from Dorne, I enjoyed the episode. Aiden Gillen gets some slack over his accent, but I really think he is great as Littlefinger. So LF is just trying to get everyone murdering the shít out of each other and he'll swoop in with his Knights of the Vale and take victory from the wounded victors? Cunning and potentially brilliant. I finally got some sense from he and Cersei's scene of the show drawing together all of the 'war' plots that are brewing. Nice to see Cersei acknowledge that there is a man (Stannis) intent on marching on KL and taking the Throne from her son, and her trying to do something about it. Even if that 'something' is her just going along with LF's plan, and LF certainly does not have the Lannisters' best interests at heart.

I agree with others that Sansa knew exactly what was ahead of her when LF told her what destiny awaited her in Winterfell. Right, Sansa might not have known that Ramsey is the devil, but would have known as a young maiden that on her wedding night, whether she wanted to or not, there would be some 'consummating'. Sansa is playing the long game here, and it is going to make her revenge all the more sweet when it finally does happen. The scene was handled well and I was happy not to be subjected to the visuals of the character in that distress. The sounds along with Theon's expression said it all.

Speaking of which, Alfie Allen is doing serious work as Theon/Reek. Mad to think that his older sister wrote, released and charted a song about him sitting in his room getting high all day about 10 years ago! All three of he, Sophie Turner as Sansa and Iwan Rheon as Ramsey are at the top of their game in the Winterfell scenes. It's hard for me to believe that these scenes come from the same show that is currently giving us Takeshi's Castle: Dorne.

I liked the Arya scenes, but will be surprised if we get more than her meeting up with Meryn Trant and going blind somewhere in the midst of that before season's end. Jaaqar was rightfully taking none of her "I hate The Hound" nonsense, because she didn't as much as she wanted to. I miss The Hound and Rory McCann, but it is promising that both the show and the book have left the character's fate uncertain.

In King's Landing, I have to believe that Tommen is such a pushover because when it comes to the Faith arresting his mother Cersei, his reactions will be consistent and not even he can get his mother released from their custody. It seems Tommen will just be a mere observer this season. Joffrey is turning in his grave at his younger brother's inaction!

So Jorah is going to make his way back to Meereen as a slave/fighter with Tyrion of the Golden Cock? That's cool with me. Iain Glenn is quite bad-ass in the role. I love how he stepped up to tell the Slaver (Adebisi in da house!!) that he killed a Dothraki blood-rider in single combat. The character still has gravitas, and I hope he gets some kind of redemption before the greyscale/other means kills him. Also, the scene between he and Tyrion where Tyrion confessed about killing Tywin and then Jorah found that out his own father had passed was quite poignant and well done.

As someone who stopped judging this show on the merits of how close it followed the books earlier this season, I feel it is still quite strong. D+D just need to rein in it a bit. Scenes at the Wall, Winterfell, KL, Meereen, Bravos look stunning, but with all due respect to the hard workers involved, the D-crew got sent to do the Dorne scenes and it isn't good enough for a show that has set its own bar so high.

Stone Deaf 4evr

stankratz wrote: »

I liked the Arya scenes, but will be surprised if we get more than her meeting up with Meryn Trant and going blind somewhere in the midst of that before season's end. Jaaqar was rightfully taking none of her "I hate The Hound" nonsense, because she didn't as much as she wanted to. I miss The Hound and Rory McCann, but it is promising that both the show and the book have left the character's fate uncertain.

I await correction, but I'm almost 100% positive that the books confirmed he was dead. Biter (i think) turned up with his horse and attacked Brienne?

jones

Did they actually confirm he was dead though? I thought it was implied but with just enough doubt to allow me to grasp onto the chance that he's still alive

podgemonster

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

I await correction, but I'm almost 100% positive that the books confirmed he was dead. Biter (i think) turned up with his horse and attacked Brienne?

Rather than correct you (as you could indeed by right), I'd recommend re-reading Chapter 31 (Brienne VI) of Feast and see is there anyone Brienne encounters that's sounds familiar.

razorblunt

intellectual dosser wrote: »

We see from Arya's warg dreams that Nymeria is roaming the countryside with her wolfpack - given the way things are turning is it too much to ask for?

Well seeing as D + D know the ending I'm hoping GRMM had plans to bring Nymeria back in, that would be one hell of a way for it to happen. Ramsey sets his dogs after someone, you hear their yelps, and then IT comes for him.

It's about time the show had a Direwolf again!

viztopia

Is it me or is house Bolton the only house that hasn't lost anyone yet?

Kunkka

I'm pretty sure the books hint that the Hound is very much alive as a grave digger?

Was just going to post a rant about the sand snakes but I was beaten to it

. It looked awful and did feel like Xena Princess Warrior. Awful

More Stannis please!

jones

I just want to Bolton's and Frey's to be wiped out by a selective meteor...I think it could happen ;-)

kingshankly

If people are disgusted and dismayed by Sansa's rape scene then there watching the wrong show
Was a lot tamer than I expected was expecting theon to be more involved like he was in the book with jeyne poole

[Deleted User]

kingshankly wrote: »

If people are disgusted and dismayed by Sansa's rape scene then there watching the wrong show
Was a lot tamer than I expected was expecting theon to be more involved like he was in the book with jeyne poole

Showing the emotional impact of the act and hearing the sounds had more of an effect for me than showing the physical act. Unconsensual sex leaves far more emotional than physical damage in general for it's victims. Though by Westeros law there's nothing actually wrong with what Ramsey did the real damage was shown in Theon's face and heard by Sansa's cries. I still don't agree with the need for the scene regardless.

[Deleted User]

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

I await correction, but I'm almost 100% positive that the books confirmed he was dead. Biter (i think) turned up with his horse and attacked Brienne?

I haven't read the books in 2+ years and some of the finer details are sketchy, but I felt there were hints that he had survived and was now seeing his days as a gravedigger in the Quiet Isles.

MrWalsh

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

I await correction, but I'm almost 100% positive that the books confirmed he was dead. Biter (i think) turned up with his horse and attacked Brienne?

Gravedigger, Quiet Isle. Awaiting the Clegane Showdown!

froog

the show seems polished, well paced and realistic when they follow the source material closely. sadly when they go off on their own tangents (and i agree they have to by the way) it ends up looking amateurish and even cartoony like the ridiculous dorne caper.

tommy2bad

A lot of stuff in the books is in hints, ambiguous wordings and stuff like that, I sometimes suspect GRRM is keeping options open rather than hiding his cards. Still it makes the guessing game fun.

Is it just me or are people aging at odd rates? Marcella seems a lot older than when she left for Dorn. Thomin has grown up fast too while Aria seems to not have aged a day at times. How long is this supposed to be since poor old Edard was killed

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I don't know how I feel about Sansa's scene. I mean realistically, things were only going to happen one way, both because of the society it's set in and who Ramsey is. That said, it didn't need to be shown. Theon starts to leave, Ramsey tells him to stay, cut. If there turns out to be some huge payoff for it fair enough, but I honestly don't have faith in the show to do that anymore, and I hope it's a payoff for Sansa that chimes with the development of the character so far, not just payoff in the sense that it's a turning point for Theon and he swoops in to rescue her. If it's just to ram down our throats that Ramsey is horrible...yeah, we all got that several flayings ago.

Dave_The_Sheep

Oh, it wasn't that bad.

I had heard some people talking about it (the final scene) beforehand and was expecting something horrible. I quite like Ramsay's character - he's a total psycho and obviously a asshole, but that's who he is. He's not trying to be anyone else. No pretenses there. Maybe it's because I've hated the Sansa character for so long (and still do, both books and TV) that I just don't give a **** what happens to her. In for a penny in for a pound with her.

Also, it's a medieval-fantasy show. Medieval society wasn't exactly a bastion of nicety and as someone pointed out, it wasn't anything approaching rape in those times to have sex with your wife against her will. Maybe that's what has people so riled up.

The Cerscei character, they've done so well. I hate her (more than Sansa actually) so much - they're really building up to some payoff there. It's not quite at Joffrey levels yet, but we're getting there, slowly.

Overall though, quite the poor episode. I'd echo what most have said - Dorne is just badly done. Very much at odds with the rest of the shows production values and general style. Pity.

On an final note, Bronn getting cut by one of the snakes. It was odd that they focused on it, I'm wondering if it was poisoned and they're lining up killing him off. Probably against Areo.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I don't think it's how violent or graphic it was that's annoying people, it's that they're invested in the character, they like her, and it's a regressive narrative move for her. Dany's scene in Season 1 left that in the shade but we barely knew her.

Edit: Yes, Dorne was a mess. Those are some terrible actresses.

Peregrine

I really didn't like the Sand Snakes.

Dave_The_Sheep

Gabrielle Fierce Spaceman wrote: »

I don't think it's how violent or graphic it was that's annoying people, it's that they're invested in the character, they like her, and it's a regressive narrative move for her. Dany's scene in Season 1 left that in the shade but we barely knew her.

Maybe it's because I'm not invested in the character at all.

Ever since the Baker's Boy scene, no time for her at all. If Joffrey had taken her fathers head off the pike and beaten her around the head with it, I wouldn't have cared.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Seemed a bit slow for me this week. I know a good bit happened but it just all seemed so dull. Lots of arya, think that could have been cut down. The King's landing stuff was great though, hopefully more of that next week. It annoys me a bit that they have so much to get through and yet waste time on storylines like the greyworm love story. Pointless and doesnt make any sense at all.

Barna77

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

No Missandworm this episode I'm thankful for small mercies.

A million times yes.

kingshankly wrote: »

If people are disgusted and dismayed by Sansa's rape scene then there watching the wrong show
Was a lot tamer than I expected was expecting theon to be more involved like he was in the book with jeyne poole

I had read about it and i was expecting something worse. We've seen worse!

duploelabs

viztopia wrote: »

Is it me or is house Bolton the only house that hasn't lost anyone yet?

Locke, but he's no family member. Then again neither has the Frey's or the Greyjoys

Mickeroo

tommy2bad wrote: »

A lot of stuff in the books is in hints, ambiguous wordings and stuff like that, I sometimes suspect GRRM is keeping options open rather than hiding his cards. Still it makes the guessing game fun.

Is it just me or are people aging at odd rates? Marcella seems a lot older than when she left for Dorn. Thomin has grown up fast too while Aria seems to not have aged a day at times. How long is this supposed to be since poor old Edard was killed

I'm guessing it's at least a couple of years since Ed's death, time moves quick in the show with weeks or months passing between scenes a lot of the time (most obvious by how quickly characters seem to travel around the country).

Wouldn't read too much into Myrcella and Tommen ageing though, it was purely because they needed older actors to stop any romantic scenes seeming too inappropriate for the audience.

celica00

Finally watched it now too.
I must say...i thought the last scene would be a lot worse after reading the opinions on here.
But in the end I found it not so bad at all..i mean of course the whole lot is bad and sad for her but after I read on here first I thought it would be extremely violent etc but what happened was to be expected. the only uncomfortable unexpected thing for her was that Theon had to watch I suppose.

the rest was alright I suppose, didnt find that episode too great.

2ndcoming

MrWalsh wrote: »

Gravedigger, Quiet Isle. Awaiting the Clegane Showdown!

Cleganebowl. Get hype.

tHE vAGGABOND

Not posted in this forum before, read the books a couple of times]. Generally liked the tv series thus far, no issue with it going away from the books etc

But watched episodes 5 and 6 last night and really was left thinking that same thought someone used on page one of this thread, that its really turning into Xena style soap opera, except with added titillation. The writing and some of the plot arc's are insane. Jamie and Bronn plot just stupid, no way they would get close to key Dorne royalty.

There are some good plot arc's and the base story is great, but there is so much utter rubbish and terrible dialog this season, wonder if key members of script team left or something?

granty1987

duploelabs wrote: »

Locke, but he's no family member. Then again neither has the Frey's or the Greyjoys

Has Balon died in the tv series?

Apart from this, the Greyjoy family have lost a member... of sorts

Peregrine

granty1987 wrote: »

Has Balon died in the tv series?

No, I think he's still alive but we haven't seen him since he got that box from Ramsey.

Mickeroo

I'm beginning to think that in the show the Greyjoy family arch is pretty much going to amount to "Theon has no dick? Ok, we're out."

Standman

Gabrielle Fierce Spaceman wrote: »

I don't think it's how violent or graphic it was that's annoying people, it's that they're invested in the character, they like her, and it's a regressive narrative move for her. Dany's scene in Season 1 left that in the shade but we barely knew her.

Edit: Yes, Dorne was a mess. Those are some terrible actresses.

I get that people find it uncomfortable for that happen to a character they like, but I don't understand how you can say it's a regressive narrative move. If that's a regressive narrative move then so was Ned Starks execution, the red wedding, etc.

The one major thing that has set GOT apart from many other shows is that it doesn't let someones idea of how a story should progress dictate the plot. We don't have any "safe" characters that we can latch onto as the hero who is above being killed off or tortured. Shit happens, essentially.