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DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

Welcome to the by now legendary DCM Mentored Novices Thread for 2014 and I am your host, Ososlo

History of this thread:
There have been 5 legs of the DCM Mentored Novices Thread starting in 2009 when Amadeus kickstarted as the first mentor. He passed the baton in 2010 to rainbow kirby who in turn passed it into the trusty hands of Raycun in 2011. 2012 saw Younganne taking the lead with a huge group of runners behind her and passed the baton to career_move who sprinted ahead like lightening to take the novices to the 2013 DCM. The baton hasn’t been dropped yet and the mentors and novices haven’t stepped out of their lanes so let’s hope we continue to surge ahead in the same vein for the 6th leg for DCM 2014!

Who is this thread for and what happens on this thread:
If you are doing Dublin City Marathon for the first time this year, then this thread is especially for you. If you are a little more experienced having already done a marathon, you are also welcome to join in the fun.We have two possible training plans for you to follow and we are here to guide you in your training. This forum encourages discussion about all aspects of your training and we are lucky to have a plethora of experienced runners and expert on running technicalities available to answer your questions so don’t be afraid to ask any about anything you like, no matter how stupid you think it might sound. We are here to help:) You are also invited to keep track of your mileage from June 23rd until DCM on the Google Doc tracker sheet linked to at the bottom of this post.

Should you do DCM this year:
To run DCM this year, ideally you'll currently be running a few days a week at this stage, be able to comfortably run 20 miles per week by the time the plan starts on June 23rd and you will have been running at least a year. However, if you're not currently at that level, but feel you can get comfortably up to running 20 miles per week by June 23rd then this thread is for you too. You might be fit from other sports and be able to get up to speed quickly enough.
If you want to do DCM this year but you would struggle to get up to 20 miles per week comfortably by the end of June and you're not very fit, then you should strongly consider putting it off for another year. Yes you will still be able to complete a marathon on October 27th, but as this is a running forum we want all the novices to attempt to fully run their first marathon or at least the majority of it.
Look ahead at the schedule for the 18 weeks. Have you many social events which might impinge on getting your long runs done at the weekends? It might be ok to miss one, but you really don't want to be missing more than that, so can you fit them in around your busy lifestyle? If the answer is yes and you're willing to make some sacrifices to get them done then you'll be fine.
Running a marathon is a fantastic goal to have but you must be prepared for it. Anyone can complete a marathon but not everyone can run one from start to finish at a good (it’s all relative) pace. To run a successful marathon you should be committed to your training and take it seriously whilst enjoying it. The key to this is to follow a plan and train smart.

Some Golden Rules for Marathon Training:

Follow a plan and stick to the plan. You can use one here or any other one, but follow a plan
Don’t miss runs (especially your weekly long run which is integral to the build up to the marathon)
Don’t make up for missed training as this is a recipe for injury and/or illness
Don’t run on an injury or ignore a constant niggle and don’t run when sick and seek professional help about your problems sooner rather than later. If there is something abnormal going on with your body during training, seek professional help
Prepare and practice in every way you can so that there is very little element of surprise on the day
Run your training runs at the correct paces (see my next post on Training Paces)

If you want to set yourself a goal time for DCM, ensure it is a realistic and fairly conservative goal. You are entering unknown territory on your first marathon. Look at Mo in London this year! He can shoot for the stars in his second marathon but he shouldn’t have been so hard on himself for his first! Don't be over-ambitious. You don’t want to be saying ‘never again’ on the finish line.

Don’t rely on McMillan calculators or other calculators for determining your marathon goal. Yes it may work for a few but not for the majority

·Take your training seriously and commit to it whilst enjoying it!

Special Ososlo Tip! Set yourself a secondary goal for the year or plan something else to look forward to in the Autumn. The reality is that not everyone who signs up to this thread is going to make the start line. A few will get sick, a few will get injured for whatever reason or life might just simply get in the way. Therefore, I advise everyone to think about a secondary goal this year if DCM does not happen for you this year, be it a marathon later in the year, a half marathon, a 10k, a holiday or a dirty weekend-away to look forward to later in the year

A little about your mentor
I ran DCM last year as my first and only marathon and I had a good training period in the lead up, had no injuries in training, ran the whole thing without stopping on the day and enjoyed myself. I did have a small blip on the startline where my tfl started hurting me out of nowhere so I couldn’t run to my planned marathon pace (pmp) on the day but I remembered the advice that I had heard a billion times here and that was to ENJOY the experience of your first and not worry about a time. I slowed down to my jogging/lsr pace and lapped up the cheering from the crowds and as I was jogging up Roebuck Hill, my leg miraculously stopped hurting so I passed people from there until the end with a smile on my face and could have run another few miles at the end which shows that I had built up a good aerobic base of endurance due to running lots and lots of very slow miles. I had planned and trained to run at 4:10 pace but jogged around at my lsr pace in 4:34. My tale goes to show that no matter how prepared you are (and believe me I was VERY prepared for DCM), anything can happen right up until and during the last minute. So be prepared to re-evaluate your goal at all times.
So I have a certain amount of useful advice to impart to you all but am still very much a novice myself, however, luckily there are far more experienced runners than me on here who will be helpful to you in different aspects of marathon training. I also have a team of back-room advisors:cool: ready to jump in and help you all out too (especially the faster novices) and lots of other boardsies and last years novices will share their advice and experiences also. It really is a Boards.ie Athletics/Running Forum group effort. I’m co-ordinating the effort and will share my limited knowledge.

Pre-Marathon Plan this plan will bring you up to 20 miles a week by June 23rd when our marathon plan starts. Jump in on the appropriate week if you wish. Alternatively, continue with your current training as you might already be running more miles than what's required for the start of our Marathon Training Plans so no need to decrease your current mileage. Remember: Miles make champions:D

THE PLANS FOR 2014:
The plans we will be using will be Hal Higdon Novice 1 and for slightly more experienced runners, the 2014 Boards Plan which is based on career_move’s super plan from 2013 with some minor adjustments made by myself and approved by the mods. You can use one of these plans or any other plan as long as it involves mostly running!

Hal Higdon Novice 1 Training Plan:
A tried and tested plan for novice marathon runners. It’s a simple plan to follow and many Boardsies have followed this plan over the years with great success. All runs in this plan are done at the same pace, which is a pace that should feel very comfortable and you should be able to chat while running (to yourself or your running buddy!). If you can’t chat while running then you’re running too fast. Slow down. If you’re not enjoying the majority of your training runs, you’re probably running them too fast. Slow down! Please see my next post with more detailed infoarmtion about why you should be running slowly most of the time.

Boards 2014 Training Plan:
Includes a little bit of speedwork and marathon pace running. The changes to last year just include some warm up and cool down miles for the sessions and races. Everything else is pretty much the same and many novices followed this plan with much success last year. Please see my next post with more detailed information about paces to run for each of the specific runs.

So, if you’re on board for DCM this year or just thinking about it still, please jump in and answer the following so we can get an idea of where you are with your training currently and get the chatting underway:

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
How many days a week can you train?
Why are you running this marathon?

To conclude
They say, everyone has 5 minutes of fame. Running DCM makes you feel like you are a superstar for hours with the crowds cheering you on in adoration shouting your name (it’ll be on your bib!) You are in for the most special experience of your life. And I’m very jealous! Enjoy the ride run

Index of useful posts and links to useful sites:
Here is an list of useful websites and past threads which I thought might be handy to have on the main page for easy access. The list covers some of the key topics that frequently arise in discussion on the novices' thread. I have pilfered posts and ideas all around me from other boardsies so if you’ve not been credited as being the owner of the post then apologies in advance and please don’t sue me:o There’s no need for me to re-invent the wheel as it’s all been said so well by you all before!

Link to Hal Higdon Novice Training Plan:
Link to Boards 2014 Novices’ Training Plan
Link to Mileage Tracker
The Route
Please note that the route for DCM (start and finish) has slightly changed this year due to luas works. Keep an eye on Dublin City Marathon Facebook for updates
Contacts for Dublin Marathon Office:
office@dublinmarathon.ie
Tel: 00 353 1 6232250
Breakdown of the DCM route by Boardsie Tunguska (route start and finish will change)
Marathon Prep and Course Breakdown by Eagle AC
Video of Dcm Route (start and finish of route will change)
Roebuck Hill Garmin Elevation (commonly known as Heartbreak Hill which is BS…don’t listen…it’s like a speedbump
Boards Discussion on Roebuck Hill
Mcmillan Running Calculator. One way to work out your training paces
Most people would discourage you from using this calculator for predicting marathon pace. It’s pretty accurate up to the half marathon but after that you'd want to be running 60+ miles per week to see the marathon fall into line. Use it as a very general guide with caution.
Determining Marathon Pace – half marathon time and First marathon goal time. A google doc created by career_move last year which compares some Boardsies' half marathon times with their full marathon times. This will be very useful when it comes to working out a realistic marathon pace later in the year.
Race Calendar for Irish Races
Running Shoes
Get yourself to a proper running shoe store (if you haven’t already) (Amphibian King, Runworx, Runways etc.) and have them recommend a pair of shoes suitable for you. Don’t just pick a pair off the shelf that seems comfortable. Every shoe is as different as every person, so it is impossible to make blanket recommendations. A proper running shoe shop will examine your gait, establish your running patterns and make educated recommendations that suit your needs.

I’d advise all novices to have 2 pairs of trainers if your budget allows. Your trainers might get wet and it’s not very pleasant putting them on wet the next day plus they’ll last you longer if they have a chance to breath between runs and regain their form.
Foam Rollers
Standard Foam Roller
Grid
Rumble roller
Trigger point
Why should you foam roll and some exercises
Where to buy foam rollers www.amazon.ie www.elverys.ie https://amphibianking.ie
The best marathon running shorts in the world
How to create a training log
Boards discussion on blisters
Water belts
Balanced article on running your long run on an empty stomach or not
Stretching and Corework
My personal favourite type of stretching is AIS or Activated Isolated Stretching.
AIS Videos
PART1
PART II
Tips on Running Form and Boards Discussion on Running Form
Gels and drinks on the long run - Boards Discussion

I hope (with the assistance of the mods) to be able to keep this list updated and add to it as other popular topics/useful websites come to my attention.

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annapr

Volunteered at St Anne's Parkrun this morning, loads of people running in DCM 2014 shirts! Ugly* though they are, worn with pride!

Edit: *the shirts, not the people!

MLC_biker

DCM shirts @ Malahide parkrun as well. Easy 5k with the dog, around 34 minutes, she was bored with the slow pace, suited me perfectly !

aquinn

Hey all,

Well unsurprisingly I'm adjusting quite well. Woke early and was going to do an easy run, made myself stay in bed and got up at 12! A lie in! I went for 2 easy miles, had planned on 3 and watched pace, legs fine but stitch, sort of, so took it easy and turned back at one. Windy out so glad I didn't wear myself out trying. I'm still on my Saturday one a day caffeinated nuun drink. This is because I'm actually going out in town tonight, TO DRINK and meet people. Will probably be half dead by 10 but still, I'm going out!

I still don't have a post-marathon plan as yet. The bag that I promised myself for completing is even on sale today and am not racing for town. No thoughts on races as yet. Will do the Jingle Bells but other than that I don't know. My friend had suggest Connenmara a few months ago but with the reports earlier this week I'm not so sure. Don't know if I want to do a marathon abroad either as no friends or family to hug en-route.

Anyway here are Monday's results. Thankfully the garmin didn't have a fit an lasted the distance. All 26.52 miles.
From this and even from the obvious slow bits I think a 4.10 marathon is more achievable and enjoyable than 4?

Summary 4:19:58.2 26.52 9:48
1 9:28.4 1.00 9:28
2 9:03.5 1.00 9:04
3 8:58.6 1.00 8:59
4 9:20.7 1.00 9:21
5 9:12.3 1.00 9:12
6 9:05.7 1.00 9:06
7 9:22.3 1.00 9:22
8 8:51.7 1.00 8:52
9 9:06.5 1.00 9:07
10 9:23.0 1.00 9:23
11 9:15.0 1.00 9:15
12 9:01.8 1.00 9:02
13 9:39.1 1.00 9:39
14 11:59.5 1.00 12:00
15 10:34.1 1.00 10:34
16 11:04.9 1.00 11:05
17 12:18.2 1.00 12:18
18 10:23.3 1.00 10:23
19 9:22.4 1.00 9:23
20 9:51.9 1.00 9:52
21 10:02.0 1.00 10:02
22 10:21.8 1.00 10:22
23 9:19.0 1.00 9:19
24 10:24.8 1.00 10:25
25 10:45.1 1.00 10:45
26 9:29.6 1.00 9:30
27 4:13.0 0.52 8:08

Nicsx

This morning something very rare happened - each of the 3 beauties had activities at the same time so my husband decided to join me for a slow 3 miler in lovely sunshine. It felt good to be back out again!

Now, to plan the next goal/challenge. I definitely want to improve my times over shorter distances & take advantage of my current level of fitness and then that should set me up to improve my marathon time next year.

echancrure

Laois_Man wrote: »

I've just taken the first step towards joining a club and e-mailed SLOT

My post-Marathon depression has suddenly vanished and I'm excited again

Thinking of doing the same actually. .. And they are getting a new track!

neilthefunkeone

well seems everyone went out running this morning.. I decided for the lycra option and took the road bike out for a 50k spin.. was a nice morning for it..

Casey78

Where can you find the videos?

No running for me since monday. Legs still a little sore. Might do a short run in the morning.

Tigerandahalf

http://www.mysports.tv/events/DM14/results.asp

Enter your race number and you can then buy for 13 eur. I did not get a 10k video as I had no 10k time split. I have emailed them about it.

I went out on the road bike today. 22 miles. Legs felt good but it rained for good bit of it.

Pm1e

Still not gone for a run yet but have been in contact with Ger Flaherty in Blackrock Athletics Club and planning to go for a few outings with them over the coming weeks to see what its like, totally new area for me now that I've left rugby behind, but already think I'm going to love it.

adrian522

Still not been out running. Still catching up on my eating, drinking and sleeping. No less enjoyable though.

Tigerandahalf

What do people feel are the benefits of joining a club?
I know the social side of things are definitely a plus.
However I like to train on my own too as I find it easier to focus.
Plus you can go out whenever you want and sometimes you just want to clear your head.
The only thing is it might be easier to do intervals with company especially if there was a track.
I would not mind doing a few track sessioms. See what little pace I have!

laura_ac3

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

What do people feel are the benefits of joining a club?
I know the social side of things are definitely a plus.
However I like to train on my own too as I find it easier to focus.
Plus you can go out whenever you want and sometimes you just want to clear your head.
The only thing is it might be easier to do intervals with company especially if there was a track.
I would not mind doing a few track sessioms. See what little pace I have!

For me I want to improve my times and open myself up to different types of training or sessions rather than potter along at my usual pace. I know I could that to an extent myself with plans from internet etc but to be honest I find it all a bit overwhelming and I think a club would be a good way to start. I like running by myself but think it would be nice to have company for some as well, bit of variety.

As far as I know joining a club doesn't mean you're chained to going all the time to every session so still room to go for those runs when you want for whatever reason. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Firedance

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

What do people feel are the benefits of joining a club?
I know the social side of things are definitely a plus.
However I like to train on my own too as I find it easier to focus.
Plus you can go out whenever you want and sometimes you just want to clear your head.
The only thing is it might be easier to do intervals with company especially if there was a track.
I would not mind doing a few track sessioms. See what little pace I have!

I joined a club in April, by June id knocked 9 mins off my 10k race time, 7 off my 5 mile and I'm almost at sub 25 5k when I was at 30 mins last year. One thing I noticed is the intensity of the sessions is much higher than my solo runs so it pushes me to work harder than I had on my own. Club sessions are two days a week leaving 6 days to run solo if i want but to be honest I usually try & hook up with someone as its more enjoyable now.

Laois_Man

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

What do people feel are the benefits of joining a club?
I know the social side of things are definitely a plus.
However I like to train on my own too as I find it easier to focus.
Plus you can go out whenever you want and sometimes you just want to clear your head.
The only thing is it might be easier to do intervals with company especially if there was a track.
I would not mind doing a few track sessioms. See what little pace I have!

I'm already thinking about next years 18 to 21 mile LSRs which I found so difficult to get thru mentally on my own.

The most obvious benefit is the guidance you'd get and the different types of training as said. Plus the extra motivation of representing a team instead of just yourself.

Also, you will be pushed harder without really noticing it as much

And I'd often go to a 10K race or 5k race or whatever race on my own and it's so much more enjoyable to do it with others as part of a group

ciaranmac

I booked the week off work for a training course which was cancelled, and a city break in Amsterdam. I went for a 4 mile run in the Phoenix Park on Thursday, slower than easy pace with plenty of stops to take pictures. It was lovely. Took me as long to drive to the RDS afterwards in traffic as I took for the run. There are perks to living in the sticks. Planning to go for another slow run tomorrow morning in Vondelpark.

Mimojo

I have made initial enquiries into joining a club & going to go along next week to one of their sessions. Think the diff types of training is a major plus, along with running with others & going to races with others

ciaranmac

... Of course a drawback is there's no club in my town. I think I'll check out the nearest one to me anyway.

Tigerandahalf

Are members under pressure in races to collect team points etc?

Firedance

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Are members under pressure in races to collect team points etc?

Not in my club, I joined the seniors and was very worried about being way behind them! I am behind them but there's still a mix of winners, ordinary fast runners and slower runners. As far as i know most if not all running clubs will welcome all new runners regardless of speed & pace. Just go up & talk to them, they are after all fellow runners, and well, you're a marathon runner now!

laura_ac3

Firedance wrote: »

I joined a club in April, by June id knocked 9 mins off my 10k race time, 7 off my 5 mile and I'm almost at sub 25 5k when I was at 30 mins last year. One thing I noticed is the intensity of the sessions is much higher than my solo runs so it pushes me to work harder than I had on my own. Club sessions are two days a week leaving 6 days to run solo if i want but to be honest I usually try & hook up with someone as its more enjoyable now.

Hi Firedance - what do you put the improvement down to? Just running better in a group as you said? Or following particular sessions or plans provided by the club?

Casey78

Firedance wrote: »

I joined a club in April, by June id knocked 9 mins off my 10k race time, 7 off my 5 mile and I'm almost at sub 25 5k when I was at 30 mins last year. One thing I noticed is the intensity of the sessions is much higher than my solo runs so it pushes me to work harder than I had on my own. Club sessions are two days a week leaving 6 days to run solo if i want but to be honest I usually try & hook up with someone as its more enjoyable now.

An 8 day week...Cool..:)

Firedance

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Hi Firedance - what do you put the improvement down to? Just running better in a group as you said? Or following particular sessions or plans provided by the club?

Running faster! The sessions we do are interval sprints which I've tried solo before but in a club environment I was pushing faster - we also do tempo runs and again I found I was pushing harder for longer than when id done them solo. I can't recommend it enough, I only wish id joined this time last year to have had a better base going into DCM.

Firedance

Casey78 wrote: »

An 8 day week...Cool..:)

Ha ha haaaa oops! Marathon brain? Nope, just thicko :-)

laura_ac3

Firedance wrote: »

Running faster! The sessions we do are interval sprints which I've tried solo before but in a club environment I was pushing faster - we also do tempo runs and again I found I was pushing harder for longer than when id done them solo. I can't recommend it enough, I only wish id joined this time last year to have had a better base going into DCM.

Super, great to hear. Going to leave the body to settle down, get back into easy running for "fun" for a while and then look into it more in a few weeks. Doing DCM again next year so???

Firedance

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Super, great to hear. Going to leave the body to settle down, get back into easy running for "fun" for a while and then look into it more in a few weeks. Doing DCM again next year so???

Thinking more 2016...planning to train well next year, work on my weekly milage & half marathon times & then maybe come back & try again better prepared :-) how about you Laura will you go again?

Tigerandahalf

I have been looking into getting a water bladder for hiking, cycling and it would also be very handy for long runs.
As I do my long runs in the countryside it would be very handy not to have to carry bottles and putting them into ditches.
I saw the Woodside 2 litre hydration backpack on Amazon for about 13eur but the postage costs were nearly double that.
Has anyone used these? I have seen a few runners with them.

laura_ac3

Firedance wrote: »

Thinking more 2016...planning to train well next year, work on my weekly milage & half marathon times & then maybe come back & try again better prepared :-) how about you Laura will you go again?

At some stage, yes. Maybe not next year. Want to do similar to you and work on other stuff. See how that goes. Hard to say after that - life can change quite quickly!

Laois_Man

What I want to know is. will our magnificent mentor be with us at the start line of DCM 2015?

annapr

I came across a good tip on Runners World about starting to run again after a first marathon: simply do your taper in reverse.

KillianByrne

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I have been looking into getting a water bladder for hiking, cycling and it would also be very handy for long runs.
As I do my long runs in the countryside it would be very handy not to have to carry bottles and putting them into ditches.
I saw the Woodside 2 litre hydration backpack on Amazon for about 13eur but the postage costs were nearly double that.
Has anyone used these? I have seen a few runners with them.

I use a camelbak, dead handy, holds about 3l and has pockets for phones, gels, snacks, keys/wallets etc. There are cheaper non branded versions out there though. if you ever go North, or have friends in the UK or the continent try Decathlon, well worth a visit for that kind of stuff.

Decathlon Hydration Packs