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DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

Welcome to the by now legendary DCM Mentored Novices Thread for 2014 and I am your host, Ososlo

History of this thread:
There have been 5 legs of the DCM Mentored Novices Thread starting in 2009 when Amadeus kickstarted as the first mentor. He passed the baton in 2010 to rainbow kirby who in turn passed it into the trusty hands of Raycun in 2011. 2012 saw Younganne taking the lead with a huge group of runners behind her and passed the baton to career_move who sprinted ahead like lightening to take the novices to the 2013 DCM. The baton hasn’t been dropped yet and the mentors and novices haven’t stepped out of their lanes so let’s hope we continue to surge ahead in the same vein for the 6th leg for DCM 2014!

Who is this thread for and what happens on this thread:
If you are doing Dublin City Marathon for the first time this year, then this thread is especially for you. If you are a little more experienced having already done a marathon, you are also welcome to join in the fun.We have two possible training plans for you to follow and we are here to guide you in your training. This forum encourages discussion about all aspects of your training and we are lucky to have a plethora of experienced runners and expert on running technicalities available to answer your questions so don’t be afraid to ask any about anything you like, no matter how stupid you think it might sound. We are here to help:) You are also invited to keep track of your mileage from June 23rd until DCM on the Google Doc tracker sheet linked to at the bottom of this post.

Should you do DCM this year:
To run DCM this year, ideally you'll currently be running a few days a week at this stage, be able to comfortably run 20 miles per week by the time the plan starts on June 23rd and you will have been running at least a year. However, if you're not currently at that level, but feel you can get comfortably up to running 20 miles per week by June 23rd then this thread is for you too. You might be fit from other sports and be able to get up to speed quickly enough.
If you want to do DCM this year but you would struggle to get up to 20 miles per week comfortably by the end of June and you're not very fit, then you should strongly consider putting it off for another year. Yes you will still be able to complete a marathon on October 27th, but as this is a running forum we want all the novices to attempt to fully run their first marathon or at least the majority of it.
Look ahead at the schedule for the 18 weeks. Have you many social events which might impinge on getting your long runs done at the weekends? It might be ok to miss one, but you really don't want to be missing more than that, so can you fit them in around your busy lifestyle? If the answer is yes and you're willing to make some sacrifices to get them done then you'll be fine.
Running a marathon is a fantastic goal to have but you must be prepared for it. Anyone can complete a marathon but not everyone can run one from start to finish at a good (it’s all relative) pace. To run a successful marathon you should be committed to your training and take it seriously whilst enjoying it. The key to this is to follow a plan and train smart.

Some Golden Rules for Marathon Training:

Follow a plan and stick to the plan. You can use one here or any other one, but follow a plan
Don’t miss runs (especially your weekly long run which is integral to the build up to the marathon)
Don’t make up for missed training as this is a recipe for injury and/or illness
Don’t run on an injury or ignore a constant niggle and don’t run when sick and seek professional help about your problems sooner rather than later. If there is something abnormal going on with your body during training, seek professional help
Prepare and practice in every way you can so that there is very little element of surprise on the day
Run your training runs at the correct paces (see my next post on Training Paces)

If you want to set yourself a goal time for DCM, ensure it is a realistic and fairly conservative goal. You are entering unknown territory on your first marathon. Look at Mo in London this year! He can shoot for the stars in his second marathon but he shouldn’t have been so hard on himself for his first! Don't be over-ambitious. You don’t want to be saying ‘never again’ on the finish line.

Don’t rely on McMillan calculators or other calculators for determining your marathon goal. Yes it may work for a few but not for the majority

·Take your training seriously and commit to it whilst enjoying it!

Special Ososlo Tip! Set yourself a secondary goal for the year or plan something else to look forward to in the Autumn. The reality is that not everyone who signs up to this thread is going to make the start line. A few will get sick, a few will get injured for whatever reason or life might just simply get in the way. Therefore, I advise everyone to think about a secondary goal this year if DCM does not happen for you this year, be it a marathon later in the year, a half marathon, a 10k, a holiday or a dirty weekend-away to look forward to later in the year

A little about your mentor
I ran DCM last year as my first and only marathon and I had a good training period in the lead up, had no injuries in training, ran the whole thing without stopping on the day and enjoyed myself. I did have a small blip on the startline where my tfl started hurting me out of nowhere so I couldn’t run to my planned marathon pace (pmp) on the day but I remembered the advice that I had heard a billion times here and that was to ENJOY the experience of your first and not worry about a time. I slowed down to my jogging/lsr pace and lapped up the cheering from the crowds and as I was jogging up Roebuck Hill, my leg miraculously stopped hurting so I passed people from there until the end with a smile on my face and could have run another few miles at the end which shows that I had built up a good aerobic base of endurance due to running lots and lots of very slow miles. I had planned and trained to run at 4:10 pace but jogged around at my lsr pace in 4:34. My tale goes to show that no matter how prepared you are (and believe me I was VERY prepared for DCM), anything can happen right up until and during the last minute. So be prepared to re-evaluate your goal at all times.
So I have a certain amount of useful advice to impart to you all but am still very much a novice myself, however, luckily there are far more experienced runners than me on here who will be helpful to you in different aspects of marathon training. I also have a team of back-room advisors:cool: ready to jump in and help you all out too (especially the faster novices) and lots of other boardsies and last years novices will share their advice and experiences also. It really is a Boards.ie Athletics/Running Forum group effort. I’m co-ordinating the effort and will share my limited knowledge.

Pre-Marathon Plan this plan will bring you up to 20 miles a week by June 23rd when our marathon plan starts. Jump in on the appropriate week if you wish. Alternatively, continue with your current training as you might already be running more miles than what's required for the start of our Marathon Training Plans so no need to decrease your current mileage. Remember: Miles make champions:D

THE PLANS FOR 2014:
The plans we will be using will be Hal Higdon Novice 1 and for slightly more experienced runners, the 2014 Boards Plan which is based on career_move’s super plan from 2013 with some minor adjustments made by myself and approved by the mods. You can use one of these plans or any other plan as long as it involves mostly running!

Hal Higdon Novice 1 Training Plan:
A tried and tested plan for novice marathon runners. It’s a simple plan to follow and many Boardsies have followed this plan over the years with great success. All runs in this plan are done at the same pace, which is a pace that should feel very comfortable and you should be able to chat while running (to yourself or your running buddy!). If you can’t chat while running then you’re running too fast. Slow down. If you’re not enjoying the majority of your training runs, you’re probably running them too fast. Slow down! Please see my next post with more detailed infoarmtion about why you should be running slowly most of the time.

Boards 2014 Training Plan:
Includes a little bit of speedwork and marathon pace running. The changes to last year just include some warm up and cool down miles for the sessions and races. Everything else is pretty much the same and many novices followed this plan with much success last year. Please see my next post with more detailed information about paces to run for each of the specific runs.

So, if you’re on board for DCM this year or just thinking about it still, please jump in and answer the following so we can get an idea of where you are with your training currently and get the chatting underway:

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
How many days a week can you train?
Why are you running this marathon?

To conclude
They say, everyone has 5 minutes of fame. Running DCM makes you feel like you are a superstar for hours with the crowds cheering you on in adoration shouting your name (it’ll be on your bib!) You are in for the most special experience of your life. And I’m very jealous! Enjoy the ride run

Index of useful posts and links to useful sites:
Here is an list of useful websites and past threads which I thought might be handy to have on the main page for easy access. The list covers some of the key topics that frequently arise in discussion on the novices' thread. I have pilfered posts and ideas all around me from other boardsies so if you’ve not been credited as being the owner of the post then apologies in advance and please don’t sue me:o There’s no need for me to re-invent the wheel as it’s all been said so well by you all before!

Link to Hal Higdon Novice Training Plan:
Link to Boards 2014 Novices’ Training Plan
Link to Mileage Tracker
The Route
Please note that the route for DCM (start and finish) has slightly changed this year due to luas works. Keep an eye on Dublin City Marathon Facebook for updates
Contacts for Dublin Marathon Office:
office@dublinmarathon.ie
Tel: 00 353 1 6232250
Breakdown of the DCM route by Boardsie Tunguska (route start and finish will change)
Marathon Prep and Course Breakdown by Eagle AC
Video of Dcm Route (start and finish of route will change)
Roebuck Hill Garmin Elevation (commonly known as Heartbreak Hill which is BS…don’t listen…it’s like a speedbump
Boards Discussion on Roebuck Hill
Mcmillan Running Calculator. One way to work out your training paces
Most people would discourage you from using this calculator for predicting marathon pace. It’s pretty accurate up to the half marathon but after that you'd want to be running 60+ miles per week to see the marathon fall into line. Use it as a very general guide with caution.
Determining Marathon Pace – half marathon time and First marathon goal time. A google doc created by career_move last year which compares some Boardsies' half marathon times with their full marathon times. This will be very useful when it comes to working out a realistic marathon pace later in the year.
Race Calendar for Irish Races
Running Shoes
Get yourself to a proper running shoe store (if you haven’t already) (Amphibian King, Runworx, Runways etc.) and have them recommend a pair of shoes suitable for you. Don’t just pick a pair off the shelf that seems comfortable. Every shoe is as different as every person, so it is impossible to make blanket recommendations. A proper running shoe shop will examine your gait, establish your running patterns and make educated recommendations that suit your needs.

I’d advise all novices to have 2 pairs of trainers if your budget allows. Your trainers might get wet and it’s not very pleasant putting them on wet the next day plus they’ll last you longer if they have a chance to breath between runs and regain their form.
Foam Rollers
Standard Foam Roller
Grid
Rumble roller
Trigger point
Why should you foam roll and some exercises
Where to buy foam rollers www.amazon.ie www.elverys.ie https://amphibianking.ie
The best marathon running shorts in the world
How to create a training log
Boards discussion on blisters
Water belts
Balanced article on running your long run on an empty stomach or not
Stretching and Corework
My personal favourite type of stretching is AIS or Activated Isolated Stretching.
AIS Videos
PART1
PART II
Tips on Running Form and Boards Discussion on Running Form
Gels and drinks on the long run - Boards Discussion

I hope (with the assistance of the mods) to be able to keep this list updated and add to it as other popular topics/useful websites come to my attention.

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Comments

Tigerandahalf

@MKDTH
I think we will have to give the award for race report of DCM 2014 to you. Nice account and it gave me a few laughs.

Re the videos - has anyone purchased? I see some people saying when others buy you could see yours. But I can't view anything without entering my details etc.
I think the videos are great value at 13eur. You can also download them plus you get a 7 minute video of the route. The photos are a ridiculous price, nearly 70eur for the package.

laura_ac3

Is tomorrow too early to consider going back to cycling to work? At a gentle pace obviously. This bus commute is killing me....

Mimojo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

@MKDTH
I think we will have to give the award for race report of DCM 2014 to you. Nice account and it gave me a few laughs.

Re the videos - has anyone purchased? I see some people saying when others buy you could see yours. But I can't view anything without entering my details etc.
I think the videos are great value at 13eur. You can also download them plus you get a 7 minute video of the route. The photos are a ridiculous price, nearly 70eur for the package.

I gave in and purchased mine today, I know I should have just waited but I was only dying to see it! It gives a selection of clips, different views from 10k, Half, 20 Mile and Finish. Im glad I got them tbh, nice to have, and they are downloadable. I sent them onto a few friend and family who couldnt be there on the day and they though it was lovely to see. Now I have the most serious face in all of them, and at the finish I look pretty shuck, but other than that I like them!! I didnt mind paying the 13e, though it wasnt too bad.

The cost of the Finisher Pix is crazy if you ask me. Had a look at mine earlier and they are not great shots, there are two that arent too bad, but no way I am paying that price for them. My sister got a nice one of me running by, and have some nice ones from after with my DCM Tshirt and Medal so that will do me!!

Just wondering about getting a nice frame for my race number, medal and a photo or two, I see on fb there is a frame you can buy but again a crazy price. Thinking of scouting around for a decent frame and doing a bit of a DIY job on it! Anyone any suggestion on where to source this? Only dying to display my medal with pride!!

Still on SUCH a high from Monday. Legs are stiff, but a lot better today than yesterday. Hoping to go for an easy swim Friday or Saturday all going well, just to stretch them out a bit.

Ososlo

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Is tomorrow too early to consider going back to cycling to work? At a gentle pace obviously. This bus commute is killing me....

It's non-impact so I think it'd be fine. You'll know yourself whether it's a good idea once you start peddling! If it's making your legs hurt then obviously back off:)

Ososlo

A few good tips here for recovery this week. Especially the bit about weakened immune system post marathon and how to keep that in check.

Reesy

Prep:
I'd originally targeted the Cardiff half marathon in early Oct, and decided to go at the DCM a couple of months out, so I was adapting my training plan - and that wasn't ideal. My longest runs were 28k & 34k. Still, I was running about 3x a week and felt good. Strolled the Cardiff Half & did a decent time - felt great up to 2 weeks before, when I ran 24km without any bother. Then ten days before DCM, I ran 8km and felt drained - and from then on up to DCM-day Monday spent every day knackered, wanting to sleep at lunchtime. A virus? Overtired? Dunno, maybe either. Psychological? It felt real... Tried to get lots of sleep, got advice, no change. Decided plan B is just to finish.

The race itself:
First 11 miles
I'm feeling good so I'm following plan A, to finish under 4 hours. I start with the 4 hr pace group (sticking to the tall dark pacer fella - nice guy). Am doing fine thru D2 & the park. I'd run the first half of the course a fortnight previous, so I had a benchmark - and by 11 miles, I was nowhere near as comfortable as I'd been on said training run. Clearly I wasn't going to follow plan A to the finish, so I dropped off the pace & let the 4 hour group go. Jogged on.

Miles 12-16
I'm trundling along, but my legs, knees & hips are getting increasingly sore all over, like I never felt before. It's clear that I'm in trouble. I struggle on, knowing this can't continue for long. And then it happened.

Mile 16 onwards
On Kimmage Rd West, suddenly my right knee starts hurting like hell when I put weight on it - so I stop, then lie on the pavement for a few minutes thinking 'hell, how will I get to a taxi or something?' After a few minutes I succeed in standing, then try walking slowly, then progress to walking at a reasonable speed. The knee won't let me run on it at all though - though I do keep trying. Feel a prat & a bit of a fraud walking past the cheering crowds, but walk the last 10 miles to complete the course in 5h 13m. Met my sweet wife at the end & hobbled to the car.

Afterwards
I feel gutted that I didn't run the whole way but pleased that I finished, given the circumstances. I have my medal & shirt at least. Oh, and I raised nearly a grand for Alzheimers.ie. Got the results today of blood tests that I'd got done by my GP on Friday - and they all came back, in the doctor's words, 'perfect'. A bit of swelling on my knee but otherwise fine. I just need to rest & recover.

Will I do another marathon? Well, we'll see. I find the training very time-consuming so I rather prefer half marathon distance - but on the other hand I still feel I can beat my PB of 3:56, set 33 years ago when I was 18.

And finally, thanks to Ososlo for the public & private advice, to the 4 hr pacers, to the other contributors to this thread who taught me a lot, and to the crowds whose support helped me so much to finish.

Maybe next year...

laura_ac3

Ososlo wrote: »

It's non-impact so I think it'd be fine. You'll know yourself whether it's a good idea once you start peddling! If it's making your legs hurt then obviously back off:)

Super, just what I was hoping. Just making sure I wasn't a madwoman for considering the idea. Will leave early to allow for slow pedaling.

On a different note how is everyone else's appetite this week? I have very little appetite to eat and food isn't very appealing.

Tigerandahalf

@mimojo
I think I might buy so. Cannot understand the price of the photos. Why not charge the same as the videos and lots more would buy. I simple took screenshots of the photos so have a record anyway.
I am sure you could pick up a cheap frame yourself. One thing I will look into is getting my times engraved on the medals I have got this year. In years to come they will be nice to take out, dust down and relive the memory. Not sure what the cost will be though.

denis160

laura_ac3 wrote: »

On a different note how is everyone else's appetite this week? I have very little appetite to eat and food isn't very appealing.

Nothing seems to be 'hitting the spot' for me. I ate some (a lot) of the things we're not suppose to eat yesterday, but today had a good breakfast, dinner & tea. I'm drinking litres of water though, seem to be very thirsty.

Laois_Man

denis160 wrote: »

I'm gonna do the half, its 4/5 weeks away, do you think thats too soon? You should join SLOT's, you won't find anyone more welcoming & encouraging of new members than james o'rourke who looks after the fit4lifers up there.

I sort of know James. He used to be my postman

I don't know whether a HM that's 5 and a half weeks out is too soon for you but it certainly is for me given the fact that I've actually been injured for the last 2 and a half months. But otherwise I'd definitely be going for it.

Ososlo

Reesy wrote: »

Prep:

Will I do another marathon? Well, we'll see. I find the training very time-consuming so I rather prefer half marathon distance - but on the other hand I still feel I can beat my PB of 3:56, set 33 years ago when I was 18.

And finally, thanks to Ososlo for the public & private advice, to the 4 hr pacers, to the other contributors to this thread who taught me a lot, and to the crowds whose support helped me so much to finish.

Maybe next year...

Of course you can beat your PB with proper approach to training. When you came to me it was really too late to rectify the situation with your current training/plan. If you follow a proper plan for next year and build up really well over the winter/spring/summer you can achieve your goal imo. But there's nothing wrong with sticking to half marathons either:)

Ososlo

denis160 wrote: »

Nothing seems to be 'hitting the spot' for me. I ate some (a lot) of the things we're not suppose to eat yesterday, but today had a good breakfast, dinner & tea. I'm drinking litres of water though, seem to be very thirsty.

I think you deserve to eat whatever you want for a few days:) If you can't do it now when can you do it!

Tigerandahalf

Just watched my videos there. There are about 12 clips or so, on Walkinstown Rd, on Clonskeagh Rd and a number of different shots of the finish line. About 3 different views of each location, panoramic, upclose and another one. If you are very small you might not be seen!
Edit. I got no 10k split thus there is no video for this section. They say they guarantee 12 clips but I have only 3 locations.
I guess if I contact them with my rough time for that 10km split I might get the video clip.
The videos are from the time split locations 10km, halfway, 30km and the finish, I would think.

blockic

Laois_Man wrote: »

I had mad notions earlier about the Waterford HM on Dec 6th but I gave myself a kick and now discounting it.

Dying to give the new Kilkenny parkrun a go but it'll be a few weeks I'd say

Longer term, really keen on the Wexford HM and I'm considering joining SLOT club in the new year.

denis160 wrote: »

I'm gonna do the half, its 4/5 weeks away, do you think thats too soon? You should join SLOT's, you won't find anyone more welcoming & encouraging of new members than james o'rourke who looks after the fit4lifers up there.

I'd see no issue doing the Waterford half. Great race and it is sufficient recovery time from the marathon. If anything it is the perfect time to cash in on your marathon training and offers a great opportunity to PB at the distance for novices. On the fifth week of recover you should be all but back to 100%

I'd say go for it. If you want a more easy going fun race, Stook 10 mile is on 23rd November in Kilkenny. Great race if I do say so myself!

Congrats to you all on your performances Monday, horrible luck with conditions but that is the beauty of the marathon. Perfect perpetration for months and you could still become undone and not get what you deserve due to things outside your control, but when things all align boy is it worth the wait!

Don't let any bad performances put you off going again. If anything it should put fire in your belly to right the wrongs.

We'll done again and best of luck in your running ventures going forward. Look forward to some new logs popping up and contributions to the general forum coming from the 2014 novices!

Finally, I know you are probably sick of it by now but well done ososlo on your mentoring. Fantastic job and time commitment over last 6 months.

carmendub

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Super, just what I was hoping. Just making sure I wasn't a madwoman for considering the idea. Will leave early to allow for slow pedaling.

On a different note how is everyone else's appetite this week? I have very little appetite to eat and food isn't very appealing.

I've been debating whether to get back on the bike too coz hate the bus!Think one more bus day then back on the,bike!I've had little or no appetite since the race,feel like I'm forcing myself to eat!!

gingersnap

laura_ac3 wrote: »

On a different note how is everyone else's appetite this week? I have very little appetite to eat and food isn't very appealing.

I seem to be constantly hungry. Ate loads on Tuesday, non stop really.
I was back in work yesterday and probably should have ate more as I felt a bit faint when I got up from the desk to get a coffee.
Woke up this morning starving too!

Legs and body feel remarkably good. Did a 3k walk on Tuesday and yesterday. Thinking of going for an easy run on Saturday, just to try out the new DCM top

MLC_biker

gingersnap wrote: »

I seem to be constantly hungry. Ate loads on Tuesday, non stop really.
I was back in work yesterday and probably should have ate more as I felt a bit faint when I got up from the desk to get a coffee.
Woke up this morning starving too!

Legs and body feel remarkably good. Did a 3k walk on Tuesday and yesterday. Thinking of going for an easy run on Saturday, just to try out the new DCM top

Finding only spicy food or club sandwiches are doing anything for me.
Am thinking about Parkrun in Malahide or St Anne's on Saturday,this lack of running is doing my head in!

JohnDozer

Gonna give this race report business a crack, as sleep is still interrupted and no work today so why not! Its gonna be a long one....

The early part of 2014 was spent trying to build my running fitness back up, having done most of my previous running in 2011/2012 with pretty much nothing of note done in 2013. Completed a good few 10 milers and a couple of halfs before June of this year. Results of these races resulted in the esteemed Mr McMillan advising me that a 3:30 marathon was possible, and I listened! Of course I did, who wouldn't want that? Scouted around the various plans being suggested here on the Novices thread and the BAA Intermediate seemed like the best fit from the starting point I was at.

I gave the plan two extra weeks as I knew that holidays etc were likely to interrupt training at some point. Started the plan in mid June and all went well right up until the holidays 4 weeks later. Two weeks in Germany with all easy (yet hilly!) running but no LSR's or workouts, although I did set a 10k PB in a local race over there. The week I returned, it took a little while to get back on track, as I had promised to do a 10k for work. Again knocked a little chunk off the PB time. No LSR done that weekend for the 3rd time in a row. Although I did get out for a 15.5 miler with 10 @ MP the folowing Tuesday. This was my last run of any real distance or speed for two weeks. If I remember right there was quite a lot happened with work around that time. Got back on track with one 20 miler the following Monday and also entered a half marathon very close to where I grew up the following weekend so another easy week. Another PB in the half marathon and led me to believe all was going well. The day after was kicking bal on the beach and pinched a nerve in my back, was off work for a week... and no running. Built myself back up slowly with 4/5 easy runs and got out for a 22 miler 4 weeks out. I thought all was not lost. Tapered nicely, or so I thought, as put a little intensity into the runs, kept the distances short enough and took plenty of rest days.

Headed for Dublin early on Sunday, quick stop in Blanchardstown to do a favour for someone, off to the RDS. A bit disappointed as the queues there around 4pm meant I just got in and out, didn't delay around for a wander around the stands. I'm well impressed with the handtowel from the bag, not so sure of the other contents! Headed out to Santry to my aunts place for carbo loading, hydration and catching up with family (It was nice as some of them were in awe, they hadn't seen me in 5 years or so, when I was 19.5 stone). Bed nice and early after Love:Hate for a restless sleep. Up again at 6am for just a light breakfast and hydration.

Anyway, that's enough of NOT talking about the race! Got to the start area nice and early with an extra layer on. Quick pee before the toilets got busy and just strolled and stood around people watching, only catching one familiar face. Positioned back from the 3:40 pacers, the plan being to traill off them gradually until after the Park and then gradually reel them in if feeling good. Didnt take in too much of the surroundings from the start to Conyngham Road and then became very aware of the race number rattling in the wind. It didn't feel that strong despite this visual so didn't really feel the need to adjust pace. Kept it nice and controlled, was aiming for miles around the 8:30 mark. The two downhill miles after the park ended up being around 8 mins flat, and I remember thinking 'I'll, pay for that later'. In hindsight I should have chilled out more on the downhills. I did say pre race that one of my biggest challenges is behaving regarding pace early in the race. This became true, and moreso because of all the people around carrying you along at a particular pace,it really takes a massive effort to drop off the crowd pace. A lighter moment here when AMK appeared alongside cutting through the crowds at ease after a pit stop. I know I had, and others did too, a 'what the f%@k' moment, and I think everybody sped up a little bit, whether intentional or not. Feeling fine after a quick pit stop around the 9 mile marker, although I remember then being disappointed there was no lucozade sport at the next water station, as I thought there was supposed to be. This was unusual as I don't normally need to drink much on LSRs so shouldn't have been feeling the need at that point. One of the first indicators all was not right I guess. And hen that hill, felt strong and ran up it at a good effort, didnt seem to affect me but again what came next suggests otherwise. Really enjoyed the ballad singer with his guitar out at his gate. Kudos to that man (I believe he was still singing an hour later). I think it was here I saw the 'Chuck Norris never ran a marathon' sign which gave me a nice chuckle, amongst many other worthy competitors seen on the day.

And then.... that Crumlin stretch that so many others have mentioned. Really struggled here and my whole mindset changed. Felt really low on energy and the negative thoughts started, and never left really. Passed halfway about one minute ahead of pre-race target. I really dont want to talk about the second half of the race. From 15 miles on it was horrific. A very stop start effort all the way to the finish. It was either the legs giving out, the chest feeling tight or the head just not being able to get out of the negative loop of thoughts. Noticing all the others in obvious difficulty and needing attention didn't do much for the mindset either. From mile 15 the A goal (very ambitious) was gone. By mile 17 the B goal (ambitious) was gone, and by mile 21 the C goal (realistic) was also gone. I drank loads of water and lucozade, tried jellies, anything to get me going again, none worked! And to the man around mile 22 who appeared with orange segments, you are my hero... I spotted him across the other side of the road and veered wildly towards him. I'd say he thought he was about to be assaulted by someone from the walking dead. This did give me a little bit of pep in the step but it didn't last long. When I knew the sub 4 was gine I gave serious thought to just walking all the way home but I still had a chance of a PB if I beat 4:09:05 so I battled hard and got there by about 90 seconds. A PB is a PB I guess. There will be other days.

In review, a few things are clear to me, some I figured out by myself and some from others. My training was too interrupted to go after such an aggressive target in only my second marathon. My LSR's are a little too quick. As another log title around here suggests, I don't 'keep the main thing the main thing', too easily getting attracted by the lure of a shorter race, and sacrificing an LSR for it. Thats never gonna work. One of the other points I really want to take on board is that we often choose our time targets assuming conditions will be perfect, and then fail to adjust the downwards if its clear that its going to be windy, or humid, or both. If I had employed this on Monday, adjusted to a more realistic target, I might have had a different experience.

so... what next for JohnDozer. Last night I entered Clonakilty Marathon on December 6th. My new target is run a sub 4 marathon and run it all the way. I feel this is achieveable and is probably a more realistic representation of where I'm at. Because I walked so much on Monday, I dont think its taken enough out of me to prevent m doing this. All I need to do is figure out how to train for it in the 5 weeks in between, allowing enough recovery and keeping the stamina and speed in good shape. Maybe some kind soul might guide me in the right direction.

Just want to say a word of thanks to Ososlo who tried in vain to keep me in check and encourage being sensible. To all the other posters who provided thought provoking words, and provided motivation just by putting their training and races there for all to see, I've enjoyed reading the 500+ pages of wisdom. This thread also helped me post more, as I was pretty much a long time lurker prior to this. I'm going to copy this into a training log with a view to posting more (shorter hopefully!!!) and maybe attracting some specific pointers for me from the wiser elders residing here. I didn't make it to the pub, as I wasnt feeling very sociable after but I'm gonna keep running, and I'm gonna keep posting, so I'm sure I'll encounter some of you at races and other running related social occasions in the future.

Well done Monday everyone! We runned a marathon!!!

RayCun

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Is tomorrow too early to consider going back to cycling to work? At a gentle pace obviously. This bus commute is killing me....

Do you have a step through frame? Getting on and off the bike is the tough bit

Pacing Mule

JohnDozer wrote: »

Gonna give this race report business a crack, as sleep is still interrupted and no work today so why not! Its gonna be a long one....

The early part of 2014 was spent trying to build my running fitness back up, having done most of my previous running in 2011/2012 with pretty much nothing of note done in 2013. Completed a good few 10 milers and a couple of halfs before June of this year. Results of these races resulted in the esteemed Mr McMillan advising me that a 3:30 marathon was possible, and I listened! Of course I did, who wouldn't want that? Scouted around the various plans being suggested here on the Novices thread and the BAA Intermediate seemed like the best fit from the starting point I was at.

I gave the plan two extra weeks as I knew that holidays etc were likely to interrupt training at some point. Started the plan in mid June and all went well right up until the holidays 4 weeks later. Two weeks in Germany with all easy (yet hilly!) running but no LSR's or workouts, although I did set a 10k PB in a local race over there. The week I returned, it took a little while to get back on track, as I had promised to do a 10k for work. Again knocked a little chunk off the PB time. No LSR done that weekend for the 3rd time in a row. Although I did get out for a 15.5 miler with 10 @ MP the folowing Tuesday. This was my last run of any real distance or speed for two weeks. If I remember right there was quite a lot happened with work around that time. Got back on track with one 20 miler the following Monday and also entered a half marathon very close to where I grew up the following weekend so another easy week. Another PB in the half marathon and led me to believe all was going well. The day after was kicking bal on the beach and pinched a nerve in my back, was off work for a week... and no running. Built myself back up slowly with 4/5 easy runs and got out for a 22 miler 4 weeks out. I thought all was not lost. Tapered nicely, or so I thought, as put a little intensity into the runs, kept the distances short enough and took plenty of rest days.

Headed for Dublin early on Sunday, quick stop in Blanchardstown to do a favour for someone, off to the RDS. A bit disappointed as the queues there around 4pm meant I just got in and out, didn't delay around for a wander around the stands. I'm well impressed with the handtowel from the bag, not so sure of the other contents! Headed out to Santry to my aunts place for carbo loading, hydration and catching up with family (It was nice as some of them were in awe, they hadn't seen me in 5 years or so, when I was 19.5 stone). Bed nice and early after Love:Hate for a restless sleep. Up again at 6am for just a light breakfast and hydration.

Anyway, that's enough of NOT talking about the race! Got to the start area nice and early with an extra layer on. Quick pee before the toilets got busy and just strolled and stood around people watching, only catching one familiar face. Positioned back from the 3:40 pacers, the plan being to traill off them gradually until after the Park and then gradually reel them in if feeling good. Didnt take in too much of the surroundings from the start to Conyngham Road and then became very aware of the race number rattling in the wind. It didn't feel that strong despite this visual so didn't really feel the need to adjust pace. Kept it nice and controlled, was aiming for miles around the 8:30 mark. The two downhill miles after the park ended up being around 8 mins flat, and I remember thinking 'I'll, pay for that later'. In hindsight I should have chilled out more on the downhills. I did say pre race that one of my biggest challenges is behaving regarding pace early in the race. This became true, and moreso because of all the people around carrying you along at a particular pace,it really takes a massive effort to drop off the crowd pace. A lighter moment here when AMK appeared alongside cutting through the crowds at ease after a pit stop. I know I had, and others did too, a 'what the f%@k' moment, and I think everybody sped up a little bit, whether intentional or not. Feeling fine after a quick pit stop around the 9 mile marker, although I remember then being disappointed there was no lucozade sport at the next water station, as I thought there was supposed to be. This was unusual as I don't normally need to drink much on LSRs so shouldn't have been feeling the need at that point. One of the first indicators all was not right I guess. And hen that hill, felt strong and ran up it at a good effort, didnt seem to affect me but again what came next suggests otherwise. Really enjoyed the ballad singer with his guitar out at his gate. Kudos to that man (I believe he was still singing an hour later). I think it was here I saw the 'Chuck Norris never ran a marathon' sign which gave me a nice chuckle, amongst many other worthy competitors seen on the day.

And then.... that Crumlin stretch that so many others have mentioned. Really struggled here and my whole mindset changed. Felt really low on energy and the negative thoughts started, and never left really. Passed halfway about one minute ahead of pre-race target. I really dont want to talk about the second half of the race. From 15 miles on it was horrific. A very stop start effort all the way to the finish. It was either the legs giving out, the chest feeling tight or the head just not being able to get out of the negative loop of thoughts. Noticing all the others in obvious difficulty and needing attention didn't do much for the mindset either. From mile 15 the A goal (very ambitious) was gone. By mile 17 the B goal (ambitious) was gone, and by mile 21 the C goal (realistic) was also gone. I drank loads of water and lucozade, tried jellies, anything to get me going again, none worked! And to the man around mile 22 who appeared with orange segments, you are my hero... I spotted him across the other side of the road and veered wildly towards him. I'd say he thought he was about to be assaulted by someone from the walking dead. This did give me a little bit of pep in the step but it didn't last long. When I knew the sub 4 was gine I gave serious thought to just walking all the way home but I still had a chance of a PB if I beat 4:09:05 so I battled hard and got there by about 90 seconds. A PB is a PB I guess. There will be other days.

In review, a few things are clear to me, some I figured out by myself and some from others. My training was too interrupted to go after such an aggressive target in only my second marathon. My LSR's are a little too quick. As another log title around here suggests, I don't 'keep the main thing the main thing', too easily getting attracted by the lure of a shorter race, and sacrificing an LSR for it. Thats never gonna work. One of the other points I really want to take on board is that we often choose our time targets assuming conditions will be perfect, and then fail to adjust the downwards if its clear that its going to be windy, or humid, or both. If I had employed this on Monday, adjusted to a more realistic target, I might have had a different experience.

so... what next for JohnDozer. Last night I entered Clonakilty Marathon on December 6th. My new target is run a sub 4 marathon and run it all the way. I feel this is achieveable and is probably a more realistic representation of where I'm at. Because I walked so much on Monday, I dont think its taken enough out of me to prevent m doing this. All I need to do is figure out how to train for it in the 5 weeks in between, allowing enough recovery and keeping the stamina and speed in good shape. Maybe some kind soul might guide me in the right direction.

Just want to say a word of thanks to Ososlo who tried in vain to keep me in check and encourage being sensible. To all the other posters who provided thought provoking words, and provided motivation just by putting their training and races there for all to see, I've enjoyed reading the 500+ pages of wisdom. This thread also helped me post more, as I was pretty much a long time lurker prior to this. I'm going to copy this into a training log with a view to posting more (shorter hopefully!!!) and maybe attracting some specific pointers for me from the wiser elders residing here. I didn't make it to the pub, as I wasnt feeling very sociable after but I'm gonna keep running, and I'm gonna keep posting, so I'm sure I'll encounter some of you at races and other running related social occasions in the future.

Well done Monday everyone! We runned a marathon!!!

Going to step into ososlos shoes here and try keep you in check again

I know you think you didn't have much taken out of you at DCM but reality is you did. You ran to a standstill (all be it still earlier than expected along with many others) and had to tough it out to finish. That will have taken it's toll. Normally you are looking at a 3 week recovery from a hard marathon and then a minimum 2 week taper so effectively you're looking at running the next marathon either under recovered, under trained or under tapered.

That said next one should be an easier day conditions wise so you do have a decent chance. But be very aware of the circumstances, take it a bit easier and don't be too beat up if things aren't 100% for you there. Best of luck.

laura_ac3

RayCun wrote: »

Do you have a step through frame? Getting on and off the bike is the tough bit

No but the handlebar isn't as high as a man's bike I don't think. I made it anyway, starting off at lights etc was the toughest part on the thighs but once I got going it was actually quite nice. It helped that I had gotten it serviced last week

JohnDozer

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Going to step into ososlos shoes here and try keep you in check again

I know you think you didn't have much taken out of you at DCM but reality is you did. You ran to a standstill (all be it still earlier than expected along with many others) and had to tough it out to finish. That will have taken it's toll. Normally you are looking at a 3 week recovery from a hard marathon and then a minimum 2 week taper so effectively you're looking at running the next marathon either under recovered, under trained or under tapered.

That said next one should be an easier day conditions wise so you do have a decent chance. But be very aware of the circumstances, take it a bit easier and don't be too beat up if things aren't 100% for you there. Best of luck.

I know where you are coming from. My logic is kinda based on that I didn't do too much damage after coming to a standstill. Muscle recovery is already coming along nicely. I should be much better able to handle 9 min miles in cooler conditions than 8:30 miles in the other conditions. I guess I really dont want to end the year without the sub 4 and opportunities are kinda limited between here and January 1st. I think just getting one LSR between here and there would be sufficient, building other easy mileage either side of it. Probably a little stupid but I would rather try and fail, and learn from it. I'll have learned a lot from Monday already so as long as I play it sensible with those lessons fresh in my mind I shouldn't do too much damage?? In saying all that, I can always defer it if I don't feel right. Clonakilty is close to home so it's an option for other years.

Laois_Man

I've crashed down from my high of the last few days and the excitement of the days beforehand and I'm really suffering from the post marathon depression today.

Is it October 2015 yet?

Mimojo

Laois_Man wrote: »

I've crashed down from my high of the last few days and the excitement of the days beforehand and I'm really suffering from the post marathon depression today.

Is it October 2015 yet?

Me too, got up this morning feeling rubbish, feel like I am getting a cold....AGAIN! I am single handedly keeping uniflu in business this month! When can we run again I want to know??!

yaboya1

@JohnDozer, only an idiot would contemplate running another marathon in that sort of timeframe......:rolleyes:

Seriously though, the lads are right. Monday would have taken more out of you than you realise. Give yourself a week or two off before you even consider entering another race so soon.

Mimojo

On the Finisher Pix photos I took screenshots of them, then used theinpaint.com to remove the watermark, didnt come out half bad!!

Tigerandahalf

Laois_Man wrote: »

I've crashed down from my high of the last few days and the excitement of the days beforehand and I'm really suffering from the post marathon depression today.

Is it October 2015 yet?

I would recommend you to volunteer at your local parkrun for the next couple of weeks. It will give you something to look forward to.

Tigerandahalf

Mimojo wrote: »

On the Finisher Pix photos I took screenshots of them, then used theinpaint.com to remove the watermark, didnt come out half bad!!

Did you download the videos. I can stream them from the site but when I click on the download button of each stream it takes me to another looking to charge more. I thought you could also download them for that price. I also don't see the 7 minute course video.

Tester46

yaboya1 wrote: »

@JohnDozer, only an idiot would contemplate running another marathon in that sort of timeframe......:rolleyes:

Seriously though, the lads are right. Monday would have taken more out of you than you realise. Give yourself a week or two off before you even consider entering another race so soon.

+1

Clon this year is a new course, four times around a loop that includes a few hills. There's also a half and a 10k the same day. Maybe one of those would be better? At least I hope so, I'm hoping to run the half (or maybe the 10k) at a very easy non-race pace as I feel grand again after the DCM. But like everyone else, I'm also itching to enter something else - at least Clon is a beautiful course, around Inchydoney beach, etc. so you can sit back and enjoy the view instead of flogging yourself!!!

Tigerandahalf

Mimojo wrote: »

On the Finisher Pix photos I took screenshots of them, then used theinpaint.com to remove the watermark, didnt come out half bad!!

With the screenshots do you have a fullscreen photo or did you edit out the surrounds in paint?