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Love/Hate (v2) [ Spoilers ]

[Deleted User]

Anyone buy the DVD of S4 yet to know the music used? is for example a cover version of the byrds 'turn turn turn' used at the beginning of episode 2?

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ectoraige

Putinovsky wrote: »

Also, does anyone else notice that they've completely moved away from showing the glamorous side of being a drug dealer? And that there is much less drug use? I remember they're were loads of complaints about the show glamorizing drug use and it seems the shows screenwriters were told to reign it in a little. We're a long way away from wild cocaine parties full of models at John Boys lavish penthouse.

The "gang" are broke at the moment, they lost their last big shipment and have had the guards all over them. There's little for them to be celebrating at the moment. I'm sure when (if?) the next shipment comes through and business picks up we'll see that side again.

seamus wrote: »

That's not really enough in Ireland. We don't loose shots like you see in US shows. Look at the John Carthy incident; the guy was given ample time and opportunity to drop the weapon, had actually fired at Gardai, yet they didn't just riddle him with bullets.
And people are *still* talking about it. If a Garda opened fire on an unarmed suspect at a toll booth in the middle of the day with lots of people around, he'd be instantly suspended and it would be a matter of Dail debate for weeks.
I know things need to be made exciting, but you can't completely remove the realism and expect people to swallow it.

The John Carthy shooting occured in a relatively controlled environment, with a known psychiatric condition and no criminal association so there was a public expectation of a more favourable outcome.

Here, Ciarán had seen Fran receive the gun and knew he was armed. Given the mandatory sentencing for possession, criminals don't like to carry the weapon more than they have to, preferring to pass it off to others for storage; we've seen this plenty of times.

Having witnessed Fran's breakdown in the van, followed by getting a gun, Ciarán had ample reason to believe Fran was on his way to use it. This is why the ERU had been called in. Fran was given a clear warning and chose to take cover, presumably to retrieve the gun. The only question Ciarán's colleagues would have had would be whether they'd have had the balls to do the same thing themselves.

I thought it was a great scene, when Ciarán nipped in in front of Fran's van, my first thought was that he was just trying to make sure he gets through the barrier first, but that Fran would realise he was being watched and would then hold back on going after Nidge straight away, turning the act of revenge into a slow burner for the rest of the season.
Once Ciarán got out of the van though, it was clear he'd realised he'd lose Fran on the motorway and that the only way to prevent him killing somebody was to act himself.

Yes of course there'd be newspaper articles and possible Dáil comment as there often is, but that doesn't mean he'll be suspended or that he can't have a few scoops that evening after a very stressful event. I imagine there's plenty of paperwork waiting for him at 7:30am, as well as a chat with the Garda Ombudsman's office. I don't believe any of the ERU team members involved in the real-life shootings in Lusk and Lucan were suspended, and those caused the deaths of three gang members, one of whom was unarmed.

Heroes did an episode or two in Ireland where they go to rob a cash in transit van, and a security guard runs out with a revolver and starts firing at people. It instantly shows off sloppy writing when they can't even get basic localisation right. This is an even worse lapse because everyone involved should know better; the Garda doing the shooting should have pointed out how ridiculous it was.

Yeah, enough said about that episode, the better.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm surprised Fran didn't doubt him at all. Exactly what the pikey lad wants is for someone to knock off nidge. That was all too convenient for Fran to believe it straight away. Even gifting him the gun. Because I didn't know if it was true or not, I thought the pikey lad was being a manipulative genius and Fran just being an idiot for falling for it.

All the pieces fell into place. Fran just couldn't understand why there was trouble between Patrick and Nidge, he already believed it was John-Boy behind the pipe-bomb that disfigured Linda, but hadn't realised it wasn't his own work. He would have also respected Patrick as a man of integrity and be a lot more inclined to believe him than the weasel Nidge who had him beaten earlier for killing the dentist. Patrick was also putting himself at risk for admitting he was the one who made the device. If he was coming up with a lie to manipulate Fran he could have picked a better one. It was indeed a good move by Patrick, he's proving to be a well-organised and resourceful opponent.

I think Nidge's downfall in all this though will revolve around Siobhán - she's his only real blind spot, all the other threats he's been trying to handle. The hit on Lizzie was efficient, and while he made a mistake giving Fran the second chance, he was at least he was aware of the threat.

Siobhán's betrayal will hit him right out of left-field, especially given all the trouble with the IRA began in her defence. How exactly it'll come out though is hard to read - maybe Paulie will find out about her informing on Nidge and harm her, causing Nidge to turn on him, his own guilt over Tommy might feed this.

Also, Nidge's ego took a bit of a knock from Paulie, I wonder if he might boast to him about his fling with Linda, and that Trish then manages to find out. She might be able to compartmentalize the hookers to some extent, but not Linda who he then went on to pipe-bomb.

BuilderPlumber

I'd say that Nidge with survive and outlive a lot of others somehow. On the way up, he has organised the downfall of John Boy and got rid of nuisance Luke. He played the go between for Fran and Darren in their disputes with John Boy and decided in the end things would be better without John Boy. So far since the end of season 3, he has seen off the following potential rivals (some ironically killed by enemies of Nidge):

Darren: yes, Darren was Nidge's friend but Nidge reluctantly tried to have him clipped at the end of season 3 as part of the deal with Tony. If Lizzie had not intervened and killed him, Darren would have surely gone after Nidge?

Dano: Dano dug his own grave. He made enemies of Tony who ultimately sided with Nidge who was smart enough to guess Tony valued him more than the personal-revenge focused Dano. So, Dano was clipped by his own.

Debbie: Though not really a threat, Nidge did not think much of Debbie (and Debbie did not think much of Janet) and if she had lived, she could have caused problems for Janet and/or Nidge. She never struck me as a violent type but she could indirectly have caused problems if she lived that could endanger Nidge.

Wayne: Nidge had Wayne killed. Wayne could be hired by anyone to kill anyone if he was paid enough. Surely, he could have betrayed Nidge for Paddy like he betrayed Dano/Lizzie for Nidge if he had lived. And Nidge knew this.

Andrew: Andrew was working for the gardai and cooperating with them at the time of his death. Fran may not have intended it but he could have saved Nidge's skin from a police takedown by killing Andrew.

Lizzie: Clearly, Nidge had her killed before she was going out to try and kill Nidge.

Nidge has outlasted all these and I think he will outlive Paddy, Paulie, etc. too. However, Fran I predict will also survive until the end. Maybe the last scene of the last episode may be one of them attempting to kill the other?

styron

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Nidge is f**ed....deano will end up killing Trish somehow

Deano needs to get the finger out alright ... outta the caravan!

Surely in 'real life' Moynihan would immediately obtain a search warrant ... Fran's up on a murder charge and when it's DNAed as Git, all hell breaks loose with the return of Tony and the RA?

Gadgetman496

A.Partridge wrote: »

Nidge has his fair share of enemies at this stage...but I have a feeling his 'end' will come through a most unlikely source...maybe Janet will get fed up with being his second fiddle and we will see him victim to a passion killing?

Not anytime soon I'd say, sure her knees are bad

A.Partridge

Nidge has his fair share of enemies at this stage...but I have a feeling his 'end' will come through a most unlikely source...maybe Janet will get fed up with being his second fiddle and we will see him victim to a passion killing?

Ash.J.Williams

Nidge is f**ed....deano will end up killing Trish somehow

[Deleted User]

Something that crossed my mind is that Nidge will be anxious to keep this latest rift with Fran from Paulie/Terrence as he will now look like even more of a busted flush and this could prompt an agressive takeover by Terrence and Paulie.

Fran on the other hand may be only glad to inform Paulie of this latest development as it puts extra squeeze on Nidge.

Pretzill

Took me a couple of days to catch up on the thread!

Good episode in Sunday - maybe I'm going soft on the most peaceful pipebomb maker but I was glad he wasn't killed and Nidges secret was revealed.

I don't think Paulie is safe after this - Nidge was totally shocked Fran found out (even with a head butt) but Paulie didn't finish the job and was quite blase about the whole thing - I think he might regret the 'bum boy' comment.

Taking Paulie out of it would cause a major problem with Terence so I reckon something sly may be attempted.

I'm beginning to wonder is Siobhan getting close to Paulie for Nidge - this would keep the heat of her relationship with the police.

I also think the inclusion of the undercover police helps add tension to the storyline - I thought the detective Madden (I think) was saying his own name (Ciaran) or a shortened version of it when he answered the phone to Moinighan would not in a million years have got the Irish reference.

BuilderPlumber

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm surprised Fran didn't doubt him at all. Exactly what the pikey lad wants is for someone to knock off nidge. That was all too convenient for Fran to believe it straight away. Even gifting him the gun. Because I didn't know if it was true or not, I thought the pikey lad was being a manipulative genius and Fran just being an idiot for falling for it.

Fran was well aware of the source of the incident that lead to Linda's face being ruined. The combination of Nidge being so overanxious to kill Paddy, Nidge warning Fran not to talk to Paddy and Paddy mentioning Nidge buying the pipebomb all pieced things together nicely for Fran.

Fran must have suspected John Boy 100% as the thrower before that? Although Darren was the hitman for John Boy on other incidents and was a wellknown pipebomb thrower (against Dano/Git's car), Fran must not have suspected him as relations between Fran and Darren were fairly good in season 3 (he said 'you're alright dazzler even if you killed my dog!'). Fran had a poor opinion of Tommy especially in season 4 but they worked together and the anymosity seems to be more rooted in a season 2 failed attempt to clip Fran by Tommy rather than Fran blaming him for Linda. Clearly, Fran was a very loyal friend to Nidge even up to the start of season 5 episode 2 and Nidge was the last person he suspected up until Paddy pieced it all together: it suddenly dropped: John Boy would not have done his own dirty work. This thought alluded him up until then thus he did not suspect Darren, Tommy or even Nidge before. It was the suddenly realised factor.

Gadgetman496

dougm1970 wrote: »

frans accent seems changed a bit too in this series

It's the new teeth

dougm1970

frans accent seems changed a bit too in this series

roofer1988

ringadingding wrote: »

Oh and Patrick ward can't hammer a nail for shît :-)

was he hammering a nail or trying to drive a timer post into the ground wit little hammer

dougm1970

i was surprised when it was only half way through the episode when patrick told fran about linda and the pipe bomb....i would have thought that a very obvious cliffhanger to end an episode on, especially as its been something hanging in the air for a very long time that everyone knew was coming.....think it shows there'll be a lot fitted into this series...i think.

trashcan

Steven81 wrote: »

John Boy ordered Nidge to pipebomb Frans house. I think it was over drugs with John Boys deliivery getting caught. Nidge bought the pipebomb from Patrick

Fran shot and wounded John Boy after John Boy pulled a stroke on him with the drug bust. He then went into hiding and John Boy ordered Nidge to pipe bomb the house (with the wife in it) to flush Fran out. When Fran and Nidge had a sit down later in the series to try and sort the feud Nidge told Fran that the pipe bomb had nothing to do with him. (Just re-watched series 1 and 2 as I'd missed bits of it)

(btw Patrick seemed to have much less of a traveller accent in the second series - or maybe thats just me!)

Imagine Frans reaction if he knew Nidge was getting jiggy with Linda, on top of everything else (if you'll pardon the expression) :eek:

deise08

dougm1970 wrote: »

i thought there was tension, or jealousy, between Moynihan and Ciaran when Ciaran was getting praised by their boss. Wife says i picked it up totally wrong though.

I was thinkin that too at first, but I think it's just Moynihan's pure contempt for Bacon & Cabbage. Ha he was giving praise because. it was 'how we used to do back in the day.' However, I'd say in reality he'd crap himself if he ever saw any action.
Moynihan has no respect for him, and I think that was what the look was for.

dougm1970

i thought there was tension, or jealousy, between Moynihan and Ciaran when Ciaran was getting praised by their boss. Wife says i picked it up totally wrong though.

deise08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm surprised Fran didn't doubt him at all. Exactly what the pikey lad wants is for someone to knock off nidge. That was all too convenient for Fran to believe it straight away. Even gifting him the gun. Because I didn't know if it was true or not, I thought the pikey lad was being a manipulative genius and Fran just being an idiot for falling for it.

Fran and paddy go way back. more than Fran and nidge.

JP Liz V1

Trish is very underused, wish the writers would give her a storyline

Steven81

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't remember what happened in previous series. Is what the pikey said to Fran about the pipe bombs true?

John Boy ordered Nidge to pipebomb Frans house. I think it was over drugs with John Boys deliivery getting caught. Nidge bought the pipebomb from Patrick

[Deleted User]

drugstore cowboy wrote: »

Yes.

I'm surprised Fran didn't doubt him at all. Exactly what the pikey lad wants is for someone to knock off nidge. That was all too convenient for Fran to believe it straight away. Even gifting him the gun. Because I didn't know if it was true or not, I thought the pikey lad was being a manipulative genius and Fran just being an idiot for falling for it.

drugstore cowboy

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't remember what happened in previous series. Is what the pikey said to Fran about the pipe bombs true?

Yes.

arse..biscuits

When Moynihan went to the funeral, I kept thinking of Will Ferrell crashing funerals to pick up women.

[Deleted User]

I can't remember what happened in previous series. Is what the pikey said to Fran about the pipe bombs true?

Soft Falling Rain

"Townie jaw on her."

Ah the Internet, that would not bang meme comes to mind.

Witcher

lufties wrote: »

CiC, probably short for commander in charge or chief in command.

It's cig, short for Cigire which is Irish for Inspector.

BMJD

bet she won't even be nudie

Lovely Bloke

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/whats-on/siobhans-steamy-sex-scenes-set-4433011 Steamy sex scenes on the way.

future spoilers ffs

Lucy and Harry

http://www.irishmirror.ie/whats-on/siobhans-steamy-sex-scenes-set-4433011 Steamy sex scenes on the way.

Birneybau

gadgetman496 wrote: »

Don't be stupid, it wrecks the chee-yiz.

ringadingding

Oh and Patrick ward can't hammer a nail for shît :-)