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DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

Welcome to the by now legendary DCM Mentored Novices Thread for 2014 and I am your host, Ososlo

History of this thread:
There have been 5 legs of the DCM Mentored Novices Thread starting in 2009 when Amadeus kickstarted as the first mentor. He passed the baton in 2010 to rainbow kirby who in turn passed it into the trusty hands of Raycun in 2011. 2012 saw Younganne taking the lead with a huge group of runners behind her and passed the baton to career_move who sprinted ahead like lightening to take the novices to the 2013 DCM. The baton hasn’t been dropped yet and the mentors and novices haven’t stepped out of their lanes so let’s hope we continue to surge ahead in the same vein for the 6th leg for DCM 2014!

Who is this thread for and what happens on this thread:
If you are doing Dublin City Marathon for the first time this year, then this thread is especially for you. If you are a little more experienced having already done a marathon, you are also welcome to join in the fun.We have two possible training plans for you to follow and we are here to guide you in your training. This forum encourages discussion about all aspects of your training and we are lucky to have a plethora of experienced runners and expert on running technicalities available to answer your questions so don’t be afraid to ask any about anything you like, no matter how stupid you think it might sound. We are here to help:) You are also invited to keep track of your mileage from June 23rd until DCM on the Google Doc tracker sheet linked to at the bottom of this post.

Should you do DCM this year:
To run DCM this year, ideally you'll currently be running a few days a week at this stage, be able to comfortably run 20 miles per week by the time the plan starts on June 23rd and you will have been running at least a year. However, if you're not currently at that level, but feel you can get comfortably up to running 20 miles per week by June 23rd then this thread is for you too. You might be fit from other sports and be able to get up to speed quickly enough.
If you want to do DCM this year but you would struggle to get up to 20 miles per week comfortably by the end of June and you're not very fit, then you should strongly consider putting it off for another year. Yes you will still be able to complete a marathon on October 27th, but as this is a running forum we want all the novices to attempt to fully run their first marathon or at least the majority of it.
Look ahead at the schedule for the 18 weeks. Have you many social events which might impinge on getting your long runs done at the weekends? It might be ok to miss one, but you really don't want to be missing more than that, so can you fit them in around your busy lifestyle? If the answer is yes and you're willing to make some sacrifices to get them done then you'll be fine.
Running a marathon is a fantastic goal to have but you must be prepared for it. Anyone can complete a marathon but not everyone can run one from start to finish at a good (it’s all relative) pace. To run a successful marathon you should be committed to your training and take it seriously whilst enjoying it. The key to this is to follow a plan and train smart.

Some Golden Rules for Marathon Training:

Follow a plan and stick to the plan. You can use one here or any other one, but follow a plan
Don’t miss runs (especially your weekly long run which is integral to the build up to the marathon)
Don’t make up for missed training as this is a recipe for injury and/or illness
Don’t run on an injury or ignore a constant niggle and don’t run when sick and seek professional help about your problems sooner rather than later. If there is something abnormal going on with your body during training, seek professional help
Prepare and practice in every way you can so that there is very little element of surprise on the day
Run your training runs at the correct paces (see my next post on Training Paces)

If you want to set yourself a goal time for DCM, ensure it is a realistic and fairly conservative goal. You are entering unknown territory on your first marathon. Look at Mo in London this year! He can shoot for the stars in his second marathon but he shouldn’t have been so hard on himself for his first! Don't be over-ambitious. You don’t want to be saying ‘never again’ on the finish line.

Don’t rely on McMillan calculators or other calculators for determining your marathon goal. Yes it may work for a few but not for the majority

·Take your training seriously and commit to it whilst enjoying it!

Special Ososlo Tip! Set yourself a secondary goal for the year or plan something else to look forward to in the Autumn. The reality is that not everyone who signs up to this thread is going to make the start line. A few will get sick, a few will get injured for whatever reason or life might just simply get in the way. Therefore, I advise everyone to think about a secondary goal this year if DCM does not happen for you this year, be it a marathon later in the year, a half marathon, a 10k, a holiday or a dirty weekend-away to look forward to later in the year

A little about your mentor
I ran DCM last year as my first and only marathon and I had a good training period in the lead up, had no injuries in training, ran the whole thing without stopping on the day and enjoyed myself. I did have a small blip on the startline where my tfl started hurting me out of nowhere so I couldn’t run to my planned marathon pace (pmp) on the day but I remembered the advice that I had heard a billion times here and that was to ENJOY the experience of your first and not worry about a time. I slowed down to my jogging/lsr pace and lapped up the cheering from the crowds and as I was jogging up Roebuck Hill, my leg miraculously stopped hurting so I passed people from there until the end with a smile on my face and could have run another few miles at the end which shows that I had built up a good aerobic base of endurance due to running lots and lots of very slow miles. I had planned and trained to run at 4:10 pace but jogged around at my lsr pace in 4:34. My tale goes to show that no matter how prepared you are (and believe me I was VERY prepared for DCM), anything can happen right up until and during the last minute. So be prepared to re-evaluate your goal at all times.
So I have a certain amount of useful advice to impart to you all but am still very much a novice myself, however, luckily there are far more experienced runners than me on here who will be helpful to you in different aspects of marathon training. I also have a team of back-room advisors:cool: ready to jump in and help you all out too (especially the faster novices) and lots of other boardsies and last years novices will share their advice and experiences also. It really is a Boards.ie Athletics/Running Forum group effort. I’m co-ordinating the effort and will share my limited knowledge.

Pre-Marathon Plan this plan will bring you up to 20 miles a week by June 23rd when our marathon plan starts. Jump in on the appropriate week if you wish. Alternatively, continue with your current training as you might already be running more miles than what's required for the start of our Marathon Training Plans so no need to decrease your current mileage. Remember: Miles make champions:D

THE PLANS FOR 2014:
The plans we will be using will be Hal Higdon Novice 1 and for slightly more experienced runners, the 2014 Boards Plan which is based on career_move’s super plan from 2013 with some minor adjustments made by myself and approved by the mods. You can use one of these plans or any other plan as long as it involves mostly running!

Hal Higdon Novice 1 Training Plan:
A tried and tested plan for novice marathon runners. It’s a simple plan to follow and many Boardsies have followed this plan over the years with great success. All runs in this plan are done at the same pace, which is a pace that should feel very comfortable and you should be able to chat while running (to yourself or your running buddy!). If you can’t chat while running then you’re running too fast. Slow down. If you’re not enjoying the majority of your training runs, you’re probably running them too fast. Slow down! Please see my next post with more detailed infoarmtion about why you should be running slowly most of the time.

Boards 2014 Training Plan:
Includes a little bit of speedwork and marathon pace running. The changes to last year just include some warm up and cool down miles for the sessions and races. Everything else is pretty much the same and many novices followed this plan with much success last year. Please see my next post with more detailed information about paces to run for each of the specific runs.

So, if you’re on board for DCM this year or just thinking about it still, please jump in and answer the following so we can get an idea of where you are with your training currently and get the chatting underway:

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
How many days a week can you train?
Why are you running this marathon?

To conclude
They say, everyone has 5 minutes of fame. Running DCM makes you feel like you are a superstar for hours with the crowds cheering you on in adoration shouting your name (it’ll be on your bib!) You are in for the most special experience of your life. And I’m very jealous! Enjoy the ride run

Index of useful posts and links to useful sites:
Here is an list of useful websites and past threads which I thought might be handy to have on the main page for easy access. The list covers some of the key topics that frequently arise in discussion on the novices' thread. I have pilfered posts and ideas all around me from other boardsies so if you’ve not been credited as being the owner of the post then apologies in advance and please don’t sue me:o There’s no need for me to re-invent the wheel as it’s all been said so well by you all before!

Link to Hal Higdon Novice Training Plan:
Link to Boards 2014 Novices’ Training Plan
Link to Mileage Tracker
The Route
Please note that the route for DCM (start and finish) has slightly changed this year due to luas works. Keep an eye on Dublin City Marathon Facebook for updates
Contacts for Dublin Marathon Office:
office@dublinmarathon.ie
Tel: 00 353 1 6232250
Breakdown of the DCM route by Boardsie Tunguska (route start and finish will change)
Marathon Prep and Course Breakdown by Eagle AC
Video of Dcm Route (start and finish of route will change)
Roebuck Hill Garmin Elevation (commonly known as Heartbreak Hill which is BS…don’t listen…it’s like a speedbump
Boards Discussion on Roebuck Hill
Mcmillan Running Calculator. One way to work out your training paces
Most people would discourage you from using this calculator for predicting marathon pace. It’s pretty accurate up to the half marathon but after that you'd want to be running 60+ miles per week to see the marathon fall into line. Use it as a very general guide with caution.
Determining Marathon Pace – half marathon time and First marathon goal time. A google doc created by career_move last year which compares some Boardsies' half marathon times with their full marathon times. This will be very useful when it comes to working out a realistic marathon pace later in the year.
Race Calendar for Irish Races
Running Shoes
Get yourself to a proper running shoe store (if you haven’t already) (Amphibian King, Runworx, Runways etc.) and have them recommend a pair of shoes suitable for you. Don’t just pick a pair off the shelf that seems comfortable. Every shoe is as different as every person, so it is impossible to make blanket recommendations. A proper running shoe shop will examine your gait, establish your running patterns and make educated recommendations that suit your needs.

I’d advise all novices to have 2 pairs of trainers if your budget allows. Your trainers might get wet and it’s not very pleasant putting them on wet the next day plus they’ll last you longer if they have a chance to breath between runs and regain their form.
Foam Rollers
Standard Foam Roller
Grid
Rumble roller
Trigger point
Why should you foam roll and some exercises
Where to buy foam rollers www.amazon.ie www.elverys.ie https://amphibianking.ie
The best marathon running shorts in the world
How to create a training log
Boards discussion on blisters
Water belts
Balanced article on running your long run on an empty stomach or not
Stretching and Corework
My personal favourite type of stretching is AIS or Activated Isolated Stretching.
AIS Videos
PART1
PART II
Tips on Running Form and Boards Discussion on Running Form
Gels and drinks on the long run - Boards Discussion

I hope (with the assistance of the mods) to be able to keep this list updated and add to it as other popular topics/useful websites come to my attention.

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Comments

frash

RedRunner wrote: »

They are important insofar as later in the plan you will be doing your long runs on tireder legs and this is great preparation for marathon. I would try get them in as much as possible as you will reap the benefits on marathon day with fresh legs after the taper

Does the order of the days matter at all do you think?
Plan has it as 5, 10, 5 but if I was to do 5, 5, 10 would it matter?

(sorry is this is a daft question

)

adrian522

I would have thought so, running 5 miles the day after running 10 miles teaches you to run on tired legs. It also gives you an easy day (5m) and a rest day before getting into the long run.

I'd say if at all possible stick to the days in the plan but better switch the days around than missing sessions altogether.

Ososlo

frash wrote: »

Does the order of the days matter at all do you think?
Plan has it as 5, 10, 5 but if I was to do 5, 5, 10 would it matter?

(sorry is this is a daft question )

Personally I'd say that'd be fine as long as the 10 wasn't too close to the long run at the weekend. You'd want at least 2 days between those longer runs and maybe more depending on how you find your body adapts in training. You won't really know until the time. It's very important to recover between runs. It's normal to be a little bit tired but if you're very achey and very tired from the longer runs, the more days between the medium run and the long run the better.

Ososlo

frash wrote: »

Does the order of the days matter at all do you think?
Plan has it as 5, 10, 5 but if I was to do 5, 5, 10 would it matter?

(sorry is this is a daft question )

and no such thing as daft questions either;) That's what we're here for!

So what running has everyone planned for the weekend?

adrian522

Well yesterday I use due to do an easy run with a threshold run today and long run on Sunday but due to a physio appointment and subsequent soreness I was unable to run yesterday so will do the easy run today, not sure what on Saturday but will stick to trying to do the long run on Sunday.

Hopefully get 13 miles done, the last time I did 13 miles I had cramps towards the end of it and found it a bit of a struggle. That was 2 weeks ago so hopefully I will handle it a bit better this time out.

rainbow kirby

Firedance wrote: »

has anyone used anything other than gels to get through long runs and the marathon? I've tried the high 5 and wasn't overly fond of how I felt. Is it possible to eat ordinary stuff like chopped up apple/sultanas and drink a high energy drink instead?

It's easier to handle real food on a long cycle than it is on a long run, the stomach gets annoyed a bit more quickly. I've brought a banana and peanut butter sandwich in the back pocket of my bike jersey but couldn't look at that on a long run!

I've seen people bringing Jaffa Cakes or a packet of wine gums on a long run. I've tried the Nakd bars in the past too - which are all natural and relatively dense, but quite small and easy to carry, and found them good. Barcelona marathon gives out orange segments and nuts after 30km, loved that.

Gels-wise - I always preferred the thicker textured ones, particularly the Gu fruit flavours. Preferably not caffeinated because in the later stages of a long race I got a bit jittery with caffeine. Not a huge fan of them in general though, and am thankful that my longest race this year is a triathlon so I can eat something semi-real on the bike!

john mayo 10

Thurs 8th may
5 k jog
Ran 3 loops of a local country estate. Very flat route with a good running surface. Felt very little pain throughout. First run in 10 days that i didnt have to stop with the pain and could have easily ran more but have to take it easy.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

Well yesterday I use due to do an easy run with a threshold run today and long run on Sunday but due to a physio appointment and subsequent soreness I was unable to run yesterday so will do the easy run today, not sure what on Saturday but will stick to trying to do the long run on Sunday.

Hopefully get 13 miles done, the last time I did 13 miles I had cramps towards the end of it and found it a bit of a struggle. That was 2 weeks ago so hopefully I will handle it a bit better this time out.

Good luck with it if you're able to do it Sunday. Great thing is, you're so far ahead of the plan already that missing some runs now is no big deal.

Sorry to hear about the cramping. Do you hydrate well before the run (day before and in general)?

adrian522

Ososlo wrote: »

Good luck with it if you're able to do it Sunday. Great thing is, you're so far ahead of the plan already that missing some runs now is no big deal.

Sorry to hear about the cramping. Do you hydrate well before the run (day before and in general)?

Yeah, hydration was fine, more a case of going too fast on that one I think, it was faster than what my normal easy pace had been which I think led to the problems. nothing major to be honest, I was still able to complete the run but it wasn't as comfortable as I would have liked.

slingerz

What is the difference between an Easy Run and a Recovery Run in the 2014 Boards plan?

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, hydration was fine, more a case of going too fast on that one I think, it was faster than what my normal easy pace had been which I think led to the problems. nothing major to be honest, I was still able to complete the run but it wasn't as comfortable as I would have liked.

Probably a pace thing then alright. You should always feel you have another few miles in you (another bit to give) at the end of a long run and not be dead on your feet. Same goes for any run really, except for a race:D

Ososlo

slingerz wrote: »

What is the difference between an Easy Run and a Recovery Run in the 2014 Boards plan?

It's broken down in detail my second post on this thread but 'Easy' is done at a comfortable pace. You should be able to chat and your breathing is only slightly quicker than normal.
'Recovery' running is like a walk really. It's normally done instead of a complete rest day after a harder workout (long run etc). It should take very little out of you and generally helps rejuvenate the legs and make them feel fresher. Doing it on grass or some softer surface is even better as it places even less stress on the body. I always feel better after a very slow recovery run. I do them about a minute slower than my 'easy' pace or sometimes even slower. I never look at the watch when doing them.

slingerz

Ososlo wrote: »

It's broken down in detail my second post on this thread but 'Easy' is done at a comfortable pace. You should be able to chat and your breathing is only slightly quicker than normal.
'Recovery' running is like a walk really. It's normally done instead of a complete rest day after a harder workout (long run etc). It should take very little out of you and generally helps rejuvenate the legs and make them feel fresher. Doing it on grass or some softer surface is even better as it places even less stress on the body. I always feel better after a very slow recovery run. I do them about a minute slower than my 'easy' pace or sometimes even slower. I never look at the watch when doing them.

Ok so recovery is pretty much crawling along and easy is still slow but a bit quicker than a recovery

Ososlo

slingerz wrote: »

Ok so recovery is pretty much crawling along and easy is still slow but a bit quicker than a recovery

yes you got it! Crawling!
I think we'll have weekly competitions to see who can run recovery runs the slowest:D Bet I'll win:D:D I can do 13 min/miles no problem:cool: But of course it's all relative;)

nerraw1111

Forgot to add, fair play to Ososlo for taking on the role.

Re gels. If you don't like one, try another. Loads of flavours and types around. Or go down the road of not using them at all.

adrian522

What races are people planning in the buildup to the marathon if any?

I was thinking of doing the following:

May 18th Terenure 5 Mile
June 28th Irish Runner 5 Mile
August 4th DLR Bay 10K
August 23rd Frank Duffy 10 Mile
September 21st Race Series Half Marathon

Thoughts on this? Too much racing or not?

crisco10

Nice one Ososlo! Some effort put into those first posts...

Okay, this is my second time doing this, having signed up last year....Damn injury.

Have you raced before?If so what are your PBs? Did a few races recently, most recent was Parkrun in 20:10. Longest race was last summer, where I did the Frank Duffy 10 miler in 70minutes even.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? No.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently doing about 40km a week, with a LSR of 20km. (Pace is 5:15/km) I try to get one other run of about 8km in that has some sort of pace work. Then the balance of the mileage spread across 2 or 3 easy/recovery runs. Try and stretch every day, pilates once a week.
This might change a bit in June/Early July as I am playing Tag Rugby on Thursdays, but that will be finished on 17th July so I can refocus training then.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? Firstly, I just want to be in the starting pen on the 27th having had injury free summer. Then I will see where it takes me. Wouldn't dare put a time down now, recipe for injury as I try to chase the goal time.

How many days a week can you train? 4-5 days.

Why are you running this marathon? 2 words. Unfinished Business.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

What races are people planning in the buildup to the marathon if any?

I was thinking of doing the following:

May 18th Terenure 5 Mile
June 28th Irish Runner 5 Mile
August 4th DLR Bay 10K
August 23rd Frank Duffy 10 Mile
September 21st Race Series Half Marathon

Thoughts on this? Too much racing or not?

To me that sounds absolutely perfect and well spaced out. Pretty much what I did last year. The Race Series is designed to fit in with marathon training. Those last 2 will be invaluable for practicing gels, fluid, gear etc. Nice to get a race in soon also before things start getting serious!

adrian522

Thanks, I wouldn't mind finding a 5k, maybe just a parkrun at some point to see if I'm in shape to beat my 23:46 from last year!

HelenAnne

Ososlo wrote: »

Some people can work the gel belt thing. I just couldn't. I found it impossible to find any running shorts in the shops with more than one pocket but these were recommended to me and I wore them on every long slow run and the race itself and carried 6 gels (i think) on the day. Can't recommend them highly enough. Great if you have to take a key or other small items too.

For DCM 2013 my mother-in-law sewed an extra pocket into my club shorts (thanks, Sylvia!). Also, if you don't need them in a specific club colour, I really love these shorts -- they have three pockets, 2 with zips:

http://www.oiselle.com/shop/running-bottoms/running-shorts-and-skirts/distance-short

vitani

adrian522 wrote: »

What races are people planning in the buildup to the marathon if any?

I was thinking of doing the following:

May 18th Terenure 5 Mile
June 28th Irish Runner 5 Mile
August 4th DLR Bay 10K
August 23rd Frank Duffy 10 Mile
September 21st Race Series Half Marathon

Thoughts on this? Too much racing or not?

Almost the same list for me. I'm doing all of the Race Series, the Mini Marathon on June 2 and possibly the Dunboyne 5 mile on May 27.

Ososlo

crisco10 wrote: »

Nice one Ososlo! Some effort put into those first posts...

Okay, this is my second time doing this, having signed up last year....Damn injury.

Why are you running this marathon? 2 words. Unfinished Business.

that must have been awful for you last year crisco. Really hope it all goes to plan for you this time round.
Great to have you with us!

crisco10

Ososlo wrote: »

that must have been awful for you last year crisco. Really hope it all goes to plan for you this time round.
Great to have you with us!

It was! ITB flared up in September (reckon I over trained/"too much,too soon" in August tho). Raging....determined to start building miles now to prevent it happening again this year.

Ososlo

crisco10 wrote: »

It was! ITB flared up in September (reckon I over trained/"too much,too soon" in August tho). Raging....determined to start building miles now to prevent it happening again this year.

Wow. September and you had to bow out:( Soul-destroying I'd imagine to get that close.
Good sensible approach this year. What plan are you thinking of following?

HelenAnne

Finnt wrote: »

I've taken jellys on long runs with no ill effects, the only thing was can be hard to chew when your under pressure!!

I did all my long runs last year on just the occasional jelly sweet and the odd sip of water, and felt great. I never needed drinks or gels in half marathon races either, HOWEVER in the actual marathon, either the extra distance or the faster pace got to me, and I definitely ran out of steam trying to run on a few jellies and water. If I ever do another one I'm going to at least give gels a try. I like Honey Stinger sweets on runs, and I have taken actual honey before long runs with no ill effects, so I might try Honey Stinger gels.

crisco10

Ososlo wrote: »

Wow. September and you had to bow out:( Soul-destroying I'd imagine to get that close.
Good sensible approach this year. What plan are you thinking of following?

Looking at the boards one. It's quite close to what I am doing now. Although, my days will be a bit messed up. LSR on Thursday, "yellow" run on Monday.

Also as mentioned, 1st 4 weeks will be a bit patched together. But that should be fine given I should be doing that and more by then. My big question at that point will probably be what does Tag Rugby count as in a training plan?? Interval training? lol

Firedance

adrian522 wrote: »

What races are people planning in the buildup to the marathon if any?

I was thinking of doing the following:

May 18th Terenure 5 Mile
June 28th Irish Runner 5 Mile
August 4th DLR Bay 10K
August 23rd Frank Duffy 10 Mile
September 21st Race Series Half Marathon

Thoughts on this? Too much racing or not?

Very similar too but will do Maynooth 10K on May 18th and Dunboyne 5 mile at the end of may instead of the Irish Runner 5 mile.

Hoping to do about 8 or 9 miles this weekend

gl0Rob

Thanks Ososlo! Really looking forward to this.

Have you raced before?If so what are your PBs?
I have done a few races over the last 12 months.
Kinvara 10k 50:08
Waterford HM 2:08:00 ish
Limerick FM 2014 4:45:00

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? No.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
30k - 40k a weeks. 4 days a week.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Dream 3:59:59
Realistic 4:15:00

How many days a week can you train? 4-5 days.

Why are you running this marathon? The atmosphere and run all 26.2 miles and not the 23 I did in Limerick

SamforMayo

HelenAnne wrote: »

I did all my long runs last year on just the occasional jelly sweet and the odd sip of water, and felt great. I never needed drinks or gels in half marathon races either, HOWEVER in the actual marathon, either the extra distance or the faster pace got to me, and I definitely ran out of steam trying to run on a few jellies and water. If I ever do another one I'm going to at least give gels a try. I like Honey Stinger sweets on runs, and I have taken actual honey before long runs with no ill effects, so I might try Honey Stinger gels.

I used sweets, cereal bars etc for long runs but I tried gels as well. While I had no problem eating on Lsr s there is no way I could tolerate food during the marathon when under pressure so bear this in mind. I hate gels but found the Isogels ok.

SeanPuddin

adrian522 wrote: »

What races are people planning in the buildup to the marathon if any?

Would like to do:
June 22nd - Galway 10K or 10mile.
July 5th - Clontarf Half Marathon - Any good?
August 9th - Streets of Galway 8K
September 20th - Connemara Half Marathon.