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Does anyone feel insulted by the abortion proposals?

lazygal

I don't know where to post. Its a bit of a ranting and raving post but I can't put it there. I feel so, so, so belittled as a woman by the suggestion that a woman seeking abortion on grounds of suicide would face some sort of tribunal of inquiry. The fact it was even bandied about as a proposal at all annoys me. I'm pregnant right now and I feel like my husband and daughter will be put in a position where they might have to face life without me, because even if my health is in serious danger right now, unless I might die I won't receive treatment.

I know this is a rambling, incoherent mess of a post but I'm just so angry and upset and insulted by the current bandying about of the difficulties the state wants women to face in the abortion debate.

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lazygal

I don't agree with a hierarchy of reasons for access to abortion. I don't care why someone wants an abortion, only that they can access it in a timely and safe manner.

iwantmydinner

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Thanks for the replis. So a crisis pregnancy is one that is unplanned, or a planned one that turns bad (for whatever reason).

Personally, I thought it was one of the first four that I mentioned in the list there. I'd see those as far more serious than "I'm not ready for this now" (simplifying things, perhaps).

Definitely simplifying things.

"I'm not ready" can sound like a very flippant reason.

A woman, or couple, may feel unable to continue an unplanned pregnancy for reasons which fall under the "I'm not ready" category, but which may be very serious indeed.

I'm going to repeat, however, that I firmly believe that anyone should be able to end a pregnancy they feel unable to continue with for whatever reason. Subjective degrees of 'seriousness' have no place in the process.

Dave_The_Sheep

Thanks for the replies. So a crisis pregnancy is one that is unplanned, or a planned one that turns bad (for whatever reason).

Personally, I thought it was any one of the first four that I mentioned in the list there. I'd see those as far more serious than "I'm not ready for this now" (simplifying things, perhaps). Especially in the cases where the life of the child/mother (and I hesitate before saying this, as it opens a whole other can of worms) or father are at risk.

[edited to add the last sentence]

lazygal

eviltwin wrote: »

I would say all of the above! Crisis tends to refer to women who have an unplanned pregnancy but I think even a planned pregnancy can turn to a crisis when problems develop.

Yes, like fatal foetal abnormality cases, or medical issues such as hypermesis or pre ecplamsia.

eviltwin

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious as to what is meant by "crisis pregnancy". Some samples, which I'm wondering if they count or not:

- Is it one where the unborn child has no chance of life outside the womb, like the case mentioned previously on theJournal?
- Is it one where the mother's life is in danger, like the Halappanavar death?
- Is it one where the father/mother is suicidal because of the pregnancy (or otherwise)?
- Is it one where the pregnancy is a result of incest/rape?
- Is it one where the couple/mother is unable (due to maturity/financial/other reasons) to care for the child after it's birth?
- All/some of the above?

That looks awful listy, and I don't like that, but I do wonder what people mean when they say crisis pregnancy (and I'm not trying to trick or trap by asking)

I would say all of the above! Crisis tends to refer to women who have an unplanned pregnancy but I think even a planned pregnancy can turn to a crisis when problems develop.

Morag

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Those are the British laws nothing to do with us.

As irish citizens we vote on our laws, if you want abortion lobby your TDs and lets have the vote.

Some of use are working on it

lazygal

To me a crisis pregnancy is one where a woman considers all options because she may not want to remain pregnant, for whatever reason.

Morag

Crisis pregnancy as per the crises pregnancy agency, is when a woman suddenly finds out she is expectantly pregnant and was not planning on being pregnant or starting a family at that time.

In some of these cases they decide to become a parent, in others they consider adoption and in some cases they decide to not continue with the pregnancy.

Dave_The_Sheep

I'm genuinely curious as to what is meant by "crisis pregnancy". Some samples, which I'm wondering if they count or not:

- Is it one where the unborn child has no chance of life outside the womb, like the case mentioned previously on theJournal?
- Is it one where the mother's life is in danger, like the Halappanavar death?
- Is it one where the father/mother is suicidal because of the pregnancy (or otherwise)?
- Is it one where the pregnancy is a result of incest/rape?
- Is it one where the couple/mother is unable (due to maturity/financial/other reasons) to care for the child after it's birth?
- All/some of the above?

That looks awful listy, and I don't like that, but I do wonder what people mean when they say crisis pregnancy (and I'm not trying to trick or trap by asking)

eviltwin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Those are the British laws nothing to do with us.

As irish citizens we vote on our laws, if you want abortion lobby your TDs and lets have the vote.

Our laws do give women a right to travel though, do you think that should be removed?

lazygal

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Those are the British laws nothing to do with us.

As irish citizens we vote on our laws, if you want abortion lobby your TDs and lets have the vote.

But you still haven't said what women with crisis pregnancies who can't travel should do. What do you think they should do?

Galwayguy35

lazygal wrote: »

Suppose your 'side' won. What do women in crisis pregnancy situations do? Why is it okay to kill a baby next door but not in Ireland?

Those are the British laws nothing to do with us.

As irish citizens we vote on our laws, if you want abortion lobby your TDs and lets have the vote.

eviltwin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I dont agree with abortion in principal, but i also dont tell others what to do.

Your vote is in essence telling women what to do, its your public declaration that you think abortion is wrong and that you will do what you can to prevent women having access to it. And don't come out with that "sure they can go to the UK" line, its not that easy to go abroad at the moment, for some women its completely impossible. Your leaving them in an impossible position.

lazygal

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I dont agree with abortion in principal, but i also dont tell others what to do.

Why is it okay for a woman to travel for abortion? Surely if you don't think women should be able to end pregnancies you'd oppose travel for that purpose.

Galwayguy35

homemadecider wrote: »

But you don't object to women going to the UK to 'kill an unborn child'?

I dont agree with abortion in principal, but i also dont tell others what to do.

lazygal

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yes i would, but i believe the pro choice side would win to be honest.

I would have cast my vote and you would have done likewise, seems fair.

Suppose your 'side' won. What do women in crisis pregnancy situations do? Why is it okay to kill a baby next door but not in Ireland?

Twee.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They will do what they have always done, take the boat or decide to keep it.

Your idea that the Brits will ban Irish women going over will never happen.

So it's ok as long as it's not on Irish soil?

That TheJournal.ie article had me in tears. That poor couple. And they're just one, how many others have had to go through that? The baby was very much wanted and to be born into a loving family. They didn't use abortion for emergency contraception, or they got pregnant at the wrong time, they weren't too young to have a baby etc, or all those other reasons that people seem to think women/couples have abortions for. Sometimes it's much simpler. The baby was not going to survive.

Galwayguy35

lazygal wrote: »

But you don't want them to have options, you'd vote against extending abortion rights.

Yes i would, but i believe the pro choice side would win to be honest.

I would have cast my vote and you would have done likewise, seems fair.

eviltwin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not many at the moment, so lets let the people decide, the balls in the governments court.

Why on earth should "the people" have any say in the fertility of another person/couple?

Faith

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Another one putting words in my mouth, its nothing to do with me what they do, if there was a vote here on it i just wouldnt vote for it.

I really genuinely don't understand this attitude. If you're against abortion, surely you think women shouldn't be able to obtain one at all - including going to a different country? Why is it okay for a woman to get an abortion if she's willing to spend thousands and travel to a different country, but not okay if she does it locally? I'd really like to understand the thought processes at play. Why is it okay in a different country but not in Ireland?

Galwayguy35

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Never underestimate what harebrained ideas the Tories will come up with.

Why should we be relying on another country to provide those services anyway? It's a dangerous position to be in. (and despite what the anti-choice movement likes to believe, abortion services are a necessary part of women's reproductive health care practice)

Lets have a straight vote on it then once and for all.

lazygal

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not many at the moment, so lets let the people decide, the balls in the governments court.

But you don't want them to have options, you'd vote against extending abortion rights.

homemadecider

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Another one putting words in my mouth, its nothing to do with me what they do, if there was a vote here on it i just wouldnt vote for it.

But you don't object to women going to the UK to 'kill an unborn child'?

lazygal

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Another one putting words in my mouth, its nothing to do with me what they do, if there was a vote here on it i just wouldnt vote for it.

So why is it OK for women to go next door, have an abortion, and face no sanction on her return, but not have an abortion here? Why do you think its okay for a woman to travel to 'kill a baby'?

Galwayguy35

lazygal wrote: »

And those who can't travel, what do they do? What if they decide not to keep 'it' but can't travel, what options do they have?

Not many at the moment, so lets let the people decide, the balls in the governments court.

Galwayguy35

homemadecider wrote: »

So you're not actually against abortion, seeing as how you're quite happy for women to "take the boat"... you're just against abortion in the Republic of Ireland???

Another one putting words in my mouth, its nothing to do with me what they do, if there was a vote here on it i just wouldnt vote for it.

rainbow kirby

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Your idea that the Brits will ban Irish women going over will never happen.

Never underestimate what harebrained ideas the Tories will come up with.

Why should we be relying on another country to provide those services anyway? It's a dangerous position to be in. (and despite what the anti-choice movement likes to believe, abortion services are a necessary part of women's reproductive health care practice)

lazygal

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They will do what they have always done, take the boat or decide to keep it.

Your idea that the Brits will ban Irish women going over will never happen.

And those who can't travel, what do they do? What if they decide not to keep 'it' but can't travel, what options do they have?

homemadecider

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They will do what they have always done, take the boat or decide to keep it.

Your idea that the Brits will ban Irish women going over will never happen.

So you're not actually against abortion, seeing as how you're quite happy for women to "take the boat"... you're just against abortion in the Republic of Ireland???