clairefontaine wrote: » I can't see how any self respecting psychiatrist will see aborfion as a cure for suicide. They usuallly prescribe Prozac for that. Makes a joke out of the mental health services.
looksee wrote: » There is apparently provision in the legislation that individual doctors will not be obliged to do abortions if they do not wish to. A recognition that there are doctors on both sides of the issue. So how will the members of the 'panel' be selected? Will there have to be an even number of 'pro' and 'anti' doctors on each panel?
rainbow kirby wrote: » What will happen in reality is that anyone who can afford it will still travel to avoid that, and it will be the absolute most vulnerable women who have to face it - very young girls, migrant women who do not have visas for other EU countries, women with very low incomes, women on probation etc.
In social class terms, the best-off AB group was the most strongly in favour of abortion in the limited circumstances specified, with farmers being the least strongly in favour, followed by the DE category.
kylith wrote: » Being gay doesn't make you immune from crisis pregnancy though. You could still fall victim to rape, so don't assume that the legislation won't ever impact you because of your sexuality; it impacts all women in Ireland; from their first period to their last.
Obliq wrote: » Thanks. Sorry again - feeling explosive today. I think I shall go argue with my garden for a while.
OldNotWIse wrote: » Agree, I cant personally imagine what that would be like (as a gay woman, I will likely never be faced with a crisis pregnancy, and actually really want a bbay anyway) but I see your point. Im imagine they would have to assign a counsellor or something?
Da Shins Kelly wrote: » While I'm glad some progress is being made, it's not enough. This bill is only scratching the surface. First of all, it's a disgrace that fetal abnormalities and cases of incest and rape have not been included. Furthermore, the opinions of women barely matter, there is room for women to be called liars over the suicide issue, there's no explicit mention of mental health at all and the threat of up to 14 years in jail for not adhering to the rules. Women are still being treated as criminals and potential liars. Polls taken recently show that the majority quite clearly favour laws more far-reaching than this bill allows. Enda Kenny can go on about not being a Catholic Taoiseach all he likes, but saying it is one thing. It's entirely another to act upon it.
eviltwin wrote: » Totally get how you feel. If I see one more comment about how this is a great day and a huge step forward I'll scream. Yes, we're in a better place marginally than we were last week but I'm not going to get excited at a few scraps thrown to the pro choice side. Nothing will really change. Ireland still has a very restrictive abortion law, women will still go to other countries in their thousands and the status quo will remain the same.
Obliq wrote: » OldNotWise, I know I directed the first couple of sentences at you, but sorry if it reads like I'm angry with you - I'm not. I'm just gutted for Irish women in general, and your previous comment triggered a small bit of how I feel about the "ostrich syndrome" that so many anti-abortion people seem to hold (until such time as their daughter has a crisis pregnancy, for eg.). Apologies. I'm so burned out over this, I shouldn't comment at all I reckon
OldNotWIse wrote: » um...ok
OldNotWIse wrote: » Actually thats a good point. I'm pro-life but I would agree with these concerns
eviltwin wrote: » Its very intimidating though. Expressing the desire to have an abortion is hard to do to one doctor even one you know is open and not going to give you a hard time about it. Having to talk about to a panel to plead my case would scare me. Does anyone know if there will be someone to talk on behalf of the woman or will she be on her own?
OldNotWIse wrote: » I dont see the issue. In many instances people go before boards/panels, not just one person. A woman for whom an abortion is genuinely the right solution will have nothing to worry about...whether she goes before 1, 2 or 3 experts.
MaxWig wrote: » This point is raised quite a bit, and I have to say I have no idea where it comes from. Every system, every single one, has in-built safeguards against abuse. Why would pregnant women be any less prone abusing a system. If you are pro-choice, I understand that you believes the need shouldn't arise. But as it does arise, I think its a little silly to suggest that accounting for abuse is some kind of slight against 'women'. Women are potential liars. Women are potential criminals. Men are potential liars. Men are potential criminals etc etc
lazygal wrote: » 'A' psychiatrist. Not a panel? Why is it proposed that women need to see more than one?
Truley wrote: » I think just knowing they have options can be enough for most women, it gives women more confidence to go ahead with pregnancy and motherhood. I also think, ironically, that having abortion available in Ireland and removing the necessity to travel (and all the stress it incurs) could actually reduce the number of vulnerable women making rushed, panicked decisions to abort and ultimately regretting it.
Da Shins Kelly wrote: » ...there is room for women to be called liars over the suicide issue, ...Women are still being treated as criminals and potential liars
LittleBook wrote: » Fine Gael haven't the cahones for this.
“I am proud to stand here as a public representative, as a Taoiseach who happens to be a Catholic, but not a Catholic Taoiseach,” [Kenny] told the Dáil, invoking the shades of devout leaders past who pledged allegiance to faith first and country second. Furthermore, a Taoiseach stood in the Dáil chamber and called out the despicable behaviour of a small section of Irish society that deems it acceptable to threaten and intimidate elected representatives who do not cleave to their world view. “I am now being branded by personnel around the country as being a murderer; that I’m going to have on my soul the death of 20 million babies. I am getting medals, scapulars, plastic foetuses, letters written in blood, telephone calls all over the system, and it’s not confined to me . . . ” ... A number of Fine Gael deputies who have expressed their reservations about the Bill looked on in dismay.
rainbow kirby wrote: » It's quite rare, but transgender males could face these situations.
lazygal wrote: » No pregnant man who is suicidal will have to appear before more than one psychiatrist to explain himself, or have to appeal a decision to deny an abortion.
