Faith wrote: » There's an excellent blog post by an Anglican priest who, after much consideration due to the current debate, has decided to officially declare himself as being pro-choice: http://paddyanglican.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/the-abortion-debate-reluctantly-leaving.html
Flying Fox wrote: » A very brave thing to do. I suspect the middle ground is mostly made up of people who have never had to face the question of how to handle an unwanted pregnancy, so they don't have a strong opinion on it (I don't mean to generalise, it's just the impression I get). As awful as some of these polarising debates can be, if they make people think more deeply about the issue of abortion and question their own viewpoints, they're doing something. I think everytime an Iona or YD wingbat gets onto the airwaves they do their cause more and more damage.
"The people doing this are not thinking of sensitive issues, like someone who might be pregnant or someone who recently had a miscarriage. They’re sick people."
vitani wrote: » Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. It means respecting women enough to give them options.
A NUMBER OF TDs from across all parties are set to work together on an amendment which could see pregnant women with babies suffering from fatal foetal abnormalities be provided with terminations or early inducements in Ireland. The development comes after an afternoon meeting between advocacy group Terminations for Medical Reasons (TFMR) and a number of deputies, advisers and other stakeholders at Leinster House yesterday. A total of 18 TDs and one Senator attended the session during which nine women and one man discussed the tragic loss of their babies. The stories were met with palpable emotion from those in the room. Fine Gael’s Simon Harris noted that he had never been at a briefing where there were no questions or requests for clarification from the floor. He said, for him, the issue at hand was not one about abortion, pro-choice or pro-life it but a “specific issue that needs to be dealt with”. He told the women that the retelling of their experiences had a “profound impact”. He was one of three Fine Gael deputies to offer vocal support to the group as they seek an amendment to the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013. Wicklow TD Andrew Doyle, who revealed that one of his children died shortly after childbirth 24 years ago as she suffered with anencephaly, also signalled his support for the women, noting that suicide ideation (which is included for in the heads of bill) is more “abstract”. Dublin South-Central deputy Catherine Byrne thanked the women for sharing their “precious” memories, adding that there “has to be room somewhere” in the bill. Independent Richard Boyd-Barrett, who chaired the meeting, said he will now work with a cross-party group on possible amendments. He also recalled his own personal tragedy, telling the room about the death of his baby girl not long after she was born. He explained that he and his partner did not have a choice as they did not know the diagnosis of the baby but that it was “clear to them after that people in these traumatic situations should have all options open to them”. TFMR says it has received legal advice from a number of experts that indicate an amendment to provide for medical terminations where the foetus is not compatible with life would be constitutional.
Similar to leaflets targeting Fine Gael TD Jerry Buttimer in Cork last month, the leaflets contained images of a late-term foetus and the Holocaust alongside Ms Doherty’s picture and phone number.
FouxDaFaFa wrote: » Enda Kenny mentioned today that he has been sent letters written in blood, plastic foetuses and religious paraphenalia in the post from, one would assume, disgruntled pro-lifers. This follows death threats made against FG TD Regina Doherty after she confronted men who were distributing leaflets with graphic images and her photo and personal contact information. Honestly, that is way more extreme than I would have imagined and I find it pretty shocking. It must be an organised campaign. I mean, where would you casually buy plastic foetuses? It just highlights the need to keep the pressure on our politicians to let them know that they represent pro-choice views as well.
FouxDaFaFa wrote: » This follows death threats made against FG TD Regina Doherty after she confronted men who were distributing leaflets with graphic images and her photo and personal contact information.
MaxWig wrote: » I consider myself an intelligent, well-educated and open-minded individual (albeit male ). I'm as uncomfortable with the level of debate as many of the posters here. Personally, I don't consider myself pro-choice or pro-life. I resent the polarisation of the debate, and the suggestion that it is a simple decision to reach. Of course I can never understand the emotional impact, and fear that must accompany becoming pregnant at any stage, be it for the first time or the fifth time. I'm not sure however that it can be reduced to a women's rights issue. I have no religion - though I was raised in 80's Ireland in a CBS, listening to the same old sh1te as most from priests and brothers etc. I'm sure my outlook on life has been shaped and influenced to some degree by this. However, I am simply not comfortable with the suggestion that one must either side with the priest or the medic. I envy those who are certain in their convictions regarding abortion - on either side.
lazygal wrote: » I don't know where to post. Its a bit of a ranting and raving post but I can't put it there. I feel so, so, so belittled as a woman by the suggestion that a woman seeking abortion on grounds of suicide would face some sort of tribunal of inquiry. The fact it was even bandied about as a proposal at all annoys me. I'm pregnant right now and I feel like my husband and daughter will be put in a position where they might have to face life without me, because even if my health is in serious danger right now, unless I might die I won't receive treatment. I know this is a rambling, incoherent mess of a post but I'm just so angry and upset and insulted by the current bandying about of the difficulties the state wants women to face in the abortion debate.
doublefeck wrote: » Lazygal, Not only is your post not just an incoherent rant, but you've succinctly expressed what a large majority of women feel about this whole debate! As per usual, when politicians in this country are faced with difficult moral or ethical decisions, the first thing they do is look to see what the Church's stance is on the matter and how their voting decision might affect their chances of re-election. What really annoys me is the fact that the Church itself was very quick to jump in with their 'holier than thou' opinion on what should be a secular matter but were not so quick to deal with the horrendous child abuse amongst their own ranks! I can completely understand where you're coming from and your fears that women almost appear secondary in the whole debate! Doublefeck.
MaxWig wrote: » a Psychiatrist. Pretty standard. The alternative is self-diagnoses.
lazygal wrote: » 'A' psychiatrist. Not a panel? Why is it proposed that women need to see more than one?
MaxWig wrote: » I think that's disingenuous - the gender of the patient is irrelevant I imagine. The implication of the decision is the reason for the panel. Second opinions are not uncommon either.
lazygal wrote: » Only women can get pregnant, so gender is the entire basis of the current Bill which has just been published. No pregnant man who is suicidal will have to appear before more than one psychiatrist to explain himself, or have to appeal a decision to deny an abortion.
lazygal wrote: » No pregnant man who is suicidal will have to appear before more than one psychiatrist to explain himself, or have to appeal a decision to deny an abortion.
rainbow kirby wrote: » It's quite rare, but transgender males could face these situations.
LittleBook wrote: » Fine Gael haven't the cahones for this.
“I am proud to stand here as a public representative, as a Taoiseach who happens to be a Catholic, but not a Catholic Taoiseach,” [Kenny] told the Dáil, invoking the shades of devout leaders past who pledged allegiance to faith first and country second. Furthermore, a Taoiseach stood in the Dáil chamber and called out the despicable behaviour of a small section of Irish society that deems it acceptable to threaten and intimidate elected representatives who do not cleave to their world view. “I am now being branded by personnel around the country as being a murderer; that I’m going to have on my soul the death of 20 million babies. I am getting medals, scapulars, plastic foetuses, letters written in blood, telephone calls all over the system, and it’s not confined to me . . . ” ... A number of Fine Gael deputies who have expressed their reservations about the Bill looked on in dismay.
Da Shins Kelly wrote: » ...there is room for women to be called liars over the suicide issue, ...Women are still being treated as criminals and potential liars
Truley wrote: » I think just knowing they have options can be enough for most women, it gives women more confidence to go ahead with pregnancy and motherhood. I also think, ironically, that having abortion available in Ireland and removing the necessity to travel (and all the stress it incurs) could actually reduce the number of vulnerable women making rushed, panicked decisions to abort and ultimately regretting it.
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