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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Flukey

I am just about to bring my new Leap card into the strange world of public transport to test it. There are already several Leap threads going and we've already had some points about its usage raised in them. Maybe we can keep this thread for more specific feedback by the people who have actually got a card and leave the more general discussions on it to the other threads. So if you have some specific feedback from actually using the card put it in here, as briefly as possible. Then we can all use it when we are feeding back our experiences in the questionnaires we are all supposed to be getting. If anything arises here that people would like to discuss in more detail, switch to one of the other threads which already have a broad range of discussion about it that is likely to be relevant. Anyway, my Leap card and I are about to head out. Wish us luck!:D

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Groinshot

1. Give us a book or something with the leap card, so I don't end up paying a flat fare instead of my city centre fare the first time, and a driver that refuses to help me.

What about a tag on/tag off system? Surely, that would make more sense.
Otherwise, I'm happy. I no have almost no reason to carry cash anymore.

SilverLiningOK

Groinshot wrote: »

1. Give us a book or something with the leap card, so I don't end up paying a flat fare instead of my city centre fare the first time, and a driver that refuses to help me.

What about a tag on/tag off system? Surely, that would make more sense.
Otherwise, I'm happy. I no have almost no reason to carry cash anymore.

If you don't want to pay the flat fare jeep away from the machine mounted on the right hand side of the bus. All you have to do is place your card on pad in front of driver's window and ask for the correct fare. If you don't know the new Leap fares, then state the destination. Be sure to hold onto card, as it may slip off. It's actually easier if you have it in some sort of holder such as a wallet of credit card size. When the light goes green in the indicator next to pad, you can then take back the card and take your seat. Simple and straightforward.

Touch-on/touch-off for buses is not practical, as probably has been explained earlier in this thread and else where. If it is to be done in the buses, then each bus would have to be fitted with on-line validators. If I am not mistaken, Dublin Bus has over 1000 buses. If it was to be done at bus stops, then as mentioned earlier, there are 11,000 of them. This would be prohibitive in terms of operation and cost.

I just don't see the issues that people are finding with the buses. Most other systems using smart cards work in the same way. People will eventually get used to it. Does anyone remember the days of conductors ? We had to get used to OPO buses and later exact change. This is just such another change.

OldNotWIse

Giblet wrote: »

I'm going back to the weekly card as it works out the same price for 10 journeys a week, and if I need to use it Saturday or miss a tag-off, the leap card will end up costing more. A shame they couldn't integrate the weekly or monthly into the card sooner. Until then, I'll stick to the weekly.

EDIT: I just checked the Luas site and since Jan 1st, it's cheaper to get a weekly card in all cases. Oh well, just cements my decision.

the leap is more expensive at weekends? :mad:

SilverLiningOK

OldNotWIse wrote: »

the leap is more expensive at weekends? :mad:

No, it is not. Why would it be ?

robd

OldNotWIse wrote: »

the leap is more expensive at weekends? :mad:

He meant his fare is free on weekends cause he has a 6 day ticket to cover his normal 5 days at work.

SilverLiningOK

robd wrote: »

He meant his fare is free on weekends cause he has a 6 day ticket to cover his normal 5 days at work.

Forgot about that. I was more concerned with untrue negative reporting of the facts. The media do enough damage on that front already. People are still skeptical of the Leap. It really hasn't been marketed very well. Only recently say the ads on the buses.

Improbable

Driver on the bus today told me that my card was expired. What's the deal with that?

Victor

noelfirl wrote: »

To have auto top up flagging on buses would require either a live backend connection or pushing a white list of top up enabled cards to all buses regularly. It's unclear whether buses support having data pushed upon them rather then just dumping their data at the end of the day, but presumably they will be able to receive Leap card blacklists, so could theoretically take whitelists as well.

The memory on the Electronic Ticketing System (ETS) is somewhat limited and maintaining the much shorter blacklists (cards that are banned, e.g. fraudulent, lost & stolen) is easier than the much longer whitelists (actions that need to be uploaded). Remember that every Dublin Bus vehicle would need to store the data on all the relevant customers, expected to be about 250,000. With the private operators like Matthews, the whitelist is much shorter (specific list of Matthews customers that have asked for a service, e.g. a monthly ticket) and I get the impression the equipment is more modern and has more memory.

n97 mini wrote: »

I know the Leap validator on the bus is not on-line, but is some other system on the bus on-line, i.e. the one that tells the RTPI the bus's location?

What sort of connection is this, is it 3G, TETRA...?

I get the impression its some sort of GPRS (internet for mobile devices). I wimagine the amount of data uploaded by individual buses is relatively modest - X, Y coordinates, vehicle ID and some sort of checksum, with a limited amount of other data, e.g. in/out of service, vehicle or device impairment, etc.

sitstill

Improbable wrote: »

Driver on the bus today told me that my card was expired. What's the deal with that?

LOL Driver told me last week there was a problem with my card too. I think he just didn't know how to issue the City Centre Fare as he then let me go for free.

lil5

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Just to advise users that if you top up online and then dont use your card for 7 days then your credit card gets refunded with the top up. I know this is an infrequent occurence but it may catch some people out...

This would just catch you out when you want to have the leapcard in your wallet for occasional trips. You know you have topped up on-line, but the credit is gone and you have no change for the bus or money for the TVM.

And neither could I find this info on the FAQ's on the leapcard website ...

Jehuty42

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Most other systems using smart cards work in the same way.

Can we get a citation on that? This can't be the best way.

I know London uses a flat fare, but that won't work here because of how our routes are set up(charging people the same from their house to the shopping centre down the road as from their home all the way to city centre or the other side of town). What do non-flat-fare operators(are there any?) do?

Victor

ixoy wrote: »

Any particular reason there's a minimum of 7 days between Auto Top Ups (3.4 (f))? Surely it can be whenever required?

I presume to make sure there aren't multiple top-ups in the process at the same time causing confusion.

Carawaystick

markpb wrote: »

On the other hand, it's not possible for a contactless reader to decide which card to talk to, it's not physically possible. This isn't a limitation of Leap, all contactless cards are the same.

I had a contact less smartcard for access to work, two contact less cards for a non-combined train/bus annual ticket and a bike contact less smartcard.
The smartcard for work always worked, in a closed wallet, so not all contact less smartcards are the same

Victor

bk wrote: »

Even for LUAS and DART users it is barely a benefit, all LUAS and DART stations have ticket machines which you will be able to top up at anyway.
At best it means you can top-up the night before, rather then spending 60 seconds at the ticket machine the next day. Hardly worth it given the confusion it seems to cause.

It means that a parent could top-up on-line for their children in one fell swoop or an accounts department do it for staff.

Nermal wrote: »

If the top-up via direct debit fails, the bus validator has already topped me up. How do they sort that in London?

Likely something along the lines of the card is likely black-listed (and will start being rejected by validators quickly, certainly with 24 hours) and a message will be sent to the account holder saying the debit has failed and that they will need to top-up up if they want to use the card.

Carawaystick wrote: »

I had a contact less smartcard for access to work, two contact less cards for a non-combined train/bus annual ticket and a bike contact less smartcard.
The smartcard for work always worked, in a closed wallet, so not all contact less smartcards are the same

Yeah, I have Leap / Irish Rail and Dublin Bus cards and they can usually get ignored where relevant.

Genghis wrote: »

1. Multiple cards / one wallet
I have an annual commuter smartcard from Irish Rail and a Leap card in my wallet. If I approach the gate at Heuston and flash the wallet, presumably there is a 50:50 chance that my Leap card will open the gate and charge me the maximum deduction of €4.30. Expensive risk.

You can still have 2 cards in one wallet, but open the wallter and present only one side / card to the validator.

starfish12 wrote: »

Tried to top up my leap card in the city centre last night at 8pm to be told that all the leap machines were 'doing an update' was told this by 3 separate stores, so not exactly ideal.

Completely agree on the lack of audio whilst paying, when I got the bus into town the driver told me to 'hurry the f up' (his exact words) as I had obviously stood with the card on the machine for too long, then coming home, the driver roared at me for taking it away too quickly, printed a couple of receipts which I didn't get a copy of and then told me to 'leave it on longer in future.'

Perhaps unfair to be venting frustrations, but hmmm, life.

As an irregular bus user, it didn't really encourage me to use it in future, esp as it was impossible to top up!

There is a small LCD screen about the size of a calculator screen on the passenger side of the driver's terminal, watch this. One you hear the beep, see the green light or see the display change from your old to new balance, you can take the card away.

sham69 wrote: »

I started using one this week only for the bus.
It saves me having to have the exact money for the fare every single day, saves me 20c on my fare and saves my washing machine from getting clogged with bus receipts.

I only go a few stops on the way home so have to place the card on the machine at the driver and state the fare.
He then looks at me, I look at him, he looks at me, I look at him again until he says ok and then I take the card.
It takes a good 10-15 seconds, which is a lot when there are a dozen or so people behind you.
I feel like a bit of a lemon as I never know how long to leave the card on the machine...

Watch the passengers display, not the driver.

markpb

Carawaystick wrote: »

I had a contact less smartcard for access to work, two contact less cards for a non-combined train/bus annual ticket and a bike contact less smartcard.
The smartcard for work always worked, in a closed wallet, so not all contact less smartcards are the same

Your door access card isn't a contactless smaetcard, it's just a proxy/RFID card which uses different technology and different radio frequencies so it doesn't interfere (or isn't interfered by) actual contactless cards.

markpb

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

It really hasn't been marketed very well. Only recently say the ads on the buses.

It was (for whatever reason) only soft launched in December. They always said that the full launch with proper advertising and promotion and more features would happen in the New Year. They're advertising on buses, trams, Luas platforms and in the Metro so far.

markpb

n97 mini wrote: »

I know the Leap validator on the bus is not on-line, but is some other system on the bus on-line, i.e. the one that tells the RTPI the bus's location?

What sort of connection is this, is it 3G, TETRA...?

I know you're only asking out of curiosity but FWIW it doesn't matter. There's no net connection and backoffice fast enough to send your card details to a host, download any actions and apply them and to your card fast enough to be suitable for transit. (I think the suggested timeframe is less than 300ms.) No-one does online transit apps for good reason.

Luas and Dart gates aren't online (for validation) either, it's just that they have enough memory to be able to download all the actions.

Victor

Draupnir wrote: »

I had topped up online last week but the top up hadn't been made available at the LUAS stop the next time I went to board a tram. I validated and the card allowed me to go into a negative balance, so I was still able to take my tram without any issue. I was pleasantly surprised by that fact.

You can go overdrawn by the amount of the deposit. To start a trip on Dublin Bus, you need a positive balance and enough credit. With Luas and Irish Rail, you just need enough credit for the initial deduction.

Giblet wrote: »

I'm going back to the weekly card as it works out the same price for 10 journeys a week, and if I need to use it Saturday or miss a tag-off, the leap card will end up costing more. A shame they couldn't integrate the weekly or monthly into the card sooner. Until then, I'll stick to the weekly.

EDIT: I just checked the Luas site and since Jan 1st, it's cheaper to get a weekly card in all cases. Oh well, just cements my decision.

Note that the Luas fare increase was 9 January. Just check again to be sure.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The same NTA in conjunction with the City Council,The Quality Bus Network Office,The Vatican et al are also in the midst of expanding the RTPI scheme which (SSssshhh....!) features fully functional connectivity to the Bus Network and thence after inserting 50c in the slot to the wonders of the Leap back-office.....

A small Reader-Pad,as in the Luas Taggers on each pole and voila....!

So Ted,we have some 500+ potential LeapCard Top-Up Poles which would at-a-stroke solve this very contentious issue as well as adding functionality to the greater system...

Thats My Idea™.

Why is it not being addressed...? At a guess,the NTA section dealing with RTPI do not,on any regular basis,interact with the NTA section dealing with the ITS programme,who,in turn do not know where the LeapCard office is located or what exactly HP is,except perhaps on their beef n pickle sandwich at lunchtime....

They do talk. Some of them were even talking about me. :eek: As to whether they were talking about My Idea™, I don't know.

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Just to advise users that if you top up online and then dont use your card for 7 days then your credit card gets refunded with the top up. I know this is an infrequent occurence but it may catch some people out...

Not quite - you need to collect the top-up within 7 days. You don't actually need to use the money.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Reading about the auto top up feature which is "coming soon" like most things leap related and i cant help thinking that it will be useless for the purpose most people will want it for because it is so inflexible!

You may pick an amount to top up by either weekly or monthly afaik and that is it! you are not allowed change that amount or the frequency ever!

If you auto top up by €10 weekly and your commuting needs change you are not allowed to change your top up amount ever!

What cretins thought this up?

I'm not sure that its a problem. Technically, what you suggest would be more difficult to implement and may be prone to fraud.

starviewadams wrote: »

Would be handy if DB or NTA put up some instructional videos on Youtube or the Leap site of how to use the card on the bus,

This has been suggested.

I'm getting fed up of using my card already because half the time I don't even know if my transaction at the right hand validator has gone through and I'm left standing there like a fecking eejit,usually the bus driver just confusedly waves me on.

This seems unusual - does it not beep, present a text message and the LED goes green? If not, take the number of the bus (typically something like AV10) or its registration and report it to ifo@dublinbus.ie and/or Leap (see below).

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Got the 150 the other day, which supposedly has max fare of 2.15 (1.90 with leap). Validated my card and was charged 2.40. Queried it with driver and he said its set at maximum fare (I naiively assumed "maximum fare" meant maximum fare for that bus) How cna they justify charging more than maximum fare for a particular route?

If you check the information, the right hand side validator will invariably charge €2.40, unless a special fare regime applies, e.g. Nitelink, Airlink, etc.

Groinshot wrote: »

1. Give us a book or something with the leap card

There is a leaflet available.

What about a tag on/tag off system?

Discussed previously, it would be too difficult at busy bus stops.

Improbable wrote: »

Driver on the bus today told me that my card was expired. What's the deal with that?

Expiry dates are set for about 5 year's time. I would contact Leap Customer Care if the problem persists.

www.leapcard.ie

Email customer.care@leapcard.ie
Please ensure that you include your Leap Card number and contact details in your email to help us respond to your query.

Phone
1850 824 824
Monday to Friday 7am to 7pm
Saturday and Bank Holidays 9am to 3pm
Closed Sundays, Christmas Day, St. Stephens Day and New Year’s Day

Post
Leap Card Customer Care
PO BOX 12119
Dublin 24

Hotblack Desiato

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Forgot about that. I was more concerned with untrue negative reporting of the facts. The media do enough damage on that front already. People are still skeptical of the Leap. It really hasn't been marketed very well. Only recently say the ads on the buses.

Marketing can only compensate for a product's deficiencies to a certain extent.

Or, more colourfully, "You can't polish a turd."

foggy_lad

bk wrote: »

They will eventually have an auot-topup service that should work on buses.

This is where you enter your bank details online, activate the card once at a shop luas or dart station and then every time you balance drops below x amount, it applies y credit to your card, deducting the money from your account automatically, even on the bus.

This is the facility most people are probably looking for.

According to the terms and conditions this auto top-up will only top you up once every 7days and only by the amount you first set. If you need more credit within that period or if your commuting needs change you will have to add the extra credit in a shop.

foggy_lad

ninja900 wrote: »

Marketing can only compensate for a product's deficiencies to a certain extent.

Or, more colourfully, "You can't polish a turd."

Someone else was watching coppers on channel4

Draupnir

Tarabuses wrote: »

Why hadn't you obtained a LUAS Smartcard previously? You have been paying too much for years.

To answer your question, coincidentally I only started commuting on the LUAS daily in the first week of December due to an office relocation.

Does the LUAS go to Conclusion City? I'll see you there!

Draupnir

Giblet wrote: »

Weekly is 16:40 for 2 zones on green,
2 zones on green * 10 (2 trips a day) = 17.50

Thank's for the update, I am a Red LUAS user and only within one zone.

bk wrote: »

The quick and easy fix for this is to make the redirect from http://leapcard.ie and https://leapcard.ie to point at http://www.leapcard.ie

It seems like the folks from the NTA maybe reading this forum, as it seems they have implemented my suggested quick and dirty fix above.

So hi guys

However in case they are, FYI you guys should still amend the SSL cert to include the wild card "*". While it is much less likely that someone will go there, if you enter https://leapcard.ie directly in your browser, you will still get the SSL cert error.

At least the URL (http://leapcard.ie) on your ads is working correctly now, but still, lets try and get it 100% correct.

Yes, I know I'm a hard task master

foggy_lad wrote: »

According to the terms and conditions this auto top-up will only top you up once every 7days and only by the amount you first set. If you need more credit within that period or if your commuting needs change you will have to add the extra credit in a shop.

You will be able to adjust the amount or cancel the service completely, but you will need to visit a shop/luas/dart machine to activate the change.

I'm not so concerned about this. If you go from a light user, for whom auto-topup is useful to suddenly using public transport so much that you need to topup more then twice a week, then you would probably be better off adding a weekly/monthly travel product to your leap card anyway.

amerindub

How long has it been taking for people's online top ups to be available? Is there some way they could email you to tell you when it's actually available and take the guess work out of it?

robd

amerindub wrote: »

How long has it been taking for people's online top ups to be available? Is there some way they could email you to tell you when it's actually available and take the guess work out of it?

Don't use online topup feature myself.

I did read a post on railusers from yesterday:

I can now confirm online top ups now take no more than 24 hours

Topup in the evening and it will be there for collection first thing next day

OldNotWIse

robd wrote: »

He meant his fare is free on weekends cause he has a 6 day ticket to cover his normal 5 days at work.

ah right, thanks

OldNotWIse

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

No, it is not. Why would it be ?

Sorry! See 695

Dravokivich

robd wrote: »

Don't use online topup feature myself.

I did read a post on railusers from yesterday:

I can now confirm online top ups now take no more than 24 hours

Topup in the evening and it will be there for collection first thing next day

While a lot of their info may be right, I'd be curious where they are getting that.