We badly badly need some pace. We are far too easy to defend against on the outside.
Hadn't realised Osbourne was as slow as he is. Got left for dead once or twice. I know he is effectively a centre playing full back.
Yeah the set-piece as a whole went very well and Loughman, Clarkson and Milne deserve their fair share of credit there. TBH I don't think anyone was overly worried about the French scrum, they had a fairly green set of props too, but our lads did well nonetheless. Milne in particular carried well in the tight exchanges when he came on.
The lineout did drop off a bit when the subs came on, whether that's on Kelleher or not I don't know.
That WOW moment is coming, and I fear it will come on the 21st. The England team is EXTREMELY good, and I think they are close to solving their centre issue which has been a 20+ year conundrum.
Are England good? Yes, EXTREMELY good? On current evidence I’ve yet to be convinced.
We’re easy to defend on the outside because we aren’t drawing men in…pace outside isn’t going to fix that. Like I pointed out earlier TOB and Stockdale are very pacey, but there’s only so much they can do when there is no space to work with due to the pack/centres not doing their job.
The actually basics of our game was good, the LO,Scrum and discipline. Unfortunately, having a 60% tackle rate in the first half just isn’t going to cut it.
They are 11 games unbeaten, won all 4 AI's & you could see 30mins out how they turned the screw on NZ & it was game over.
Just look at the bench impact they had that day.
I think they will do a number on France scrum & win the championship.
They are building v v nicely...extremely good...maybe not yet but in a far better position than most.
If we don't have a hugh reaction to last night in the Italy game I would be really concerned going to Twickenham.
We have regressed since last years 6n's, England have improved
A few thoughts, Joe McCarthy was MIA and Sam Prendergast had his best game for Ireland ( Not great but better).
The A game offers us a glimpse of what is left in the cupboard. If you aren't shooting the lights out at this level you certainly aren't going to do it a level up.
Wouldn't it be great to see a proper winger performance in an Ireland shirt from JJ or Ward?
I fear you could be convinced by the end of the 6n 😅 but I hope you're right.
They have class, and depth everywhere bar THP, and probably #15. I think we caught them cold last 6n but to your point, this is the first time they are coming into a tournament expecting things. Will be interesting to see how they go.
I've been saying this for a while now. He's a physical powerhouse but if the game is going against him he resorts to conceding brain dead penalties. The last 2 games against France are a case in point.
The other 2 locks last night haven't the same physical power as Joe but they at least both dug in and slogged it out. Beirne made some great turnovers and Ryan worked his socks off and hit hard.
Joe has an issue with his attitude and could learn a lot from the other 2.
for the Italy game I think we can’t change too much. I would bring in Ryan and put beirne to 6, Timoney at 7. maybe Crowley at 15 and give Osborne a go at 13. O’Brien and stockdale were very poor so if either or both of Kenny and ward go very well in the A game I would start them.
I'd like to see the 23 below selected for the Italy game. We have to reward the guys last night who played well and look like they actually want to play for Ireland.
1. Loughman
2. Sheehan
3. Clarkson
4. Ryan
5. Beirne
6. C. Prendergast
7. Timoney
8. Doris
9. Casey
10. S. Prendergast
11. Stockdale (getting close to last chance saloon)
12. McCloskey
13. Osborne
14. TOB
15. Crowley (we need 2 playmakers and Hansen is injured)
16. Stewart (this guy is better that the current iteration of Kelleher)
17. Milne
18. Bealham
19. Edogbo (McCarthy needs a timeout until he sorts the discipline out)
20. Conan
21. VdF
22. JGP
23. Ringrose (Also coming close to last chance saloon)
Armchair rugby fan here so excuse my ignorance or stupidity or if these have already been covered. And I don’t want to go mad into a Crowley v Prendergast v Byrne debate
If as most people seem to accept that there are issues around tackling / defence in Sam’s game is that not something that should be sorted out / fixed at Leinster before he was called up to the international team? People go on about this ‘high ceiling’. Is this really just another way of saying potential and if so how long do you give him to reach the potential.
Crowley on the other hand seems to lack the ability to control a game consistently especially in an Ireland shirt or so the argument goes). If this is the case should he be looked at as an option for 12 / 13 the irish setup?
Harry Byrne seems to be a hybrid of the 2 in terms of decent at everything but, not exceptional. Is it better to go with a steady player for the immediate term? Obviously, our options are limited in terms of choice as we only have 4 provinces to pick from.
I will be, one way or the other. They are the masters of getting high on their own supply so until I see it with my own eyes I remain unconvinced.
They’ve may very well have class and depth everywhere…I’ve just not seen it yet.
No they caught us cold in the 1H, in the end half we outclassed them.
The idea of picking the same team again, to give lads a chance to redeem themselves is such a poisonous concept. You can't reward failure like that.
Change both wingers, Frawley to FB. Osborne 13. Start Casey with Doak on the bench. Drop McCarthy and have Edogbo on the bench. Drop Beirne, have C Prendergast and Izuchukwu in the 23.
Nice team, but I think Conan has to start next week.
It is now that they’ve not delivered time and time again.
Couldn't agree more, there has to be an element of risk for underperformance and reward for performance. Not free goes. Or in our case several free goes.
James Lowe was rightly left out for the France game due to poor club form. We need more of that.
I don't disagree with the notion, but would say there is virtually no chance of Zac Ward or JJ Kenny featuring against Italy next week, given they have never been in camp with the Irish squad before.
Robert Baloucoune is likelier to come into the back three IMO, with the possibility of Jamie Osborne shifting to left wing and Crowley to 15 (I wouldn't hate this configuration).
I do think Stockdale & TOB are better players than they looked last night too FWIW - both have shown this season the good work they can do when you can get the ball into their hands regularly, but if we're going to kick high and get up and compete for it, neither are the right option.
Crowley has had many opportunities to impress for Ireland and he simply hasn't taken them. He's 26 now and it's a case of he is what he is. He's a good solid provincial player who isn't and never will be tier 1 international quality. Fine for 20 minutes off the bench and games against tier 2 teams but that's his ceiling, whether he's picked at 10, 12 or 15.
Of course, we don't currently have an alternative who is a tier 1 10, but we at least have someone who might be by the next world cup and beyond. Picking Crowley is simply wasting a chance to develop someone younger and potentially better.
Disagree. Our performances went on the decline after that second half performance, there's went on the rise. And that trajectory has largely continued through the autumn. We'll see!
with the possibility of Jamie Osborne shifting to left wing
I can't see us going with this option and don't think it's something we should pursue tbh. I'm fine with Osborne playing FB, but we need to start getting him into his best position, imo (midfield), not playing him in his worst (wing).
France manipulated a 5 metre scrum towards the blindside, Du Pont drew the defence and it opened up for Jalibert as Osborn had moved up to take on SP's tackle as the no. 8 was expected to pick and drive, Jalibert could easily have passed to BB.
Du Pont brought runners on all evening, passing when they were in almost full stride, excluding Jalibert, who ran an inside line or was skip passed, JGP was under orders to kick and kick again, McCloskey did not get a single pass off JGP to go straight into the French backline.
Not from what I saw, our performance against Scotland was also strong whereas England stayed at a similar level up until the Wales game where they battered them.
In the same vein, how long should the alternatives to Crowley be given to prove they are at the required level?
They have either of Nth/Bath centre combos to avail of, getting the idea of Tuilagi comebacks gone has been key, would describe Eng as better than good but not extremely good.
I don't love it, but wouldn't surprise me at all. Farrell has picked him there before, and while I don't think he's effective out there generally, he is better at contesting kicks than the majority of other options in the wider squad.
Farrell has never selected him in the centre for Ireland - his solitary start at 13 came last summer against Georgia. Farrell picked him in one game at 13 for the Lions, but bumped him out to the wing early in that game due to injuries.
I'm not convinced by any of the Irish utility backs going a full 80 at 15, Crowley and Frawley are very good bench options to cover 10 and 15 but neither is good enough to start there internationally, Osbourne did a job but overall struggled last night and for Leinster in Croke Park at 15, now is the time to try him at centre, Stockdale has a very poor history playing at 15 for Ireland. If Daly goes well on Friday I'd look to him, as he is by far the most natural fullback of the current options in and around the squad.
Have to again question JOB's omission. Playing well at FB in Kennan's absence, has performed very well for Ireland at the highest level. Left kicking rocks watching 10s parachuted in to cover 15. If he's healthy, he ought to picked at 15.
Farrell has picked him there before
He has but that game did not go particularly well for Osbrone there, imo, and his lack of pace was exposed a little too. I think we have better options and with our midfield as it is, I think it's time we start seeing Osborne there.
