Replacing previous thread which has continuing page count issues.
Previous Thread
Previous Original Thread:
Threabanned posters:
brickstser69
slay55
mulbot
Slow and easy does it
Concerning :)
I hope they are sufficiently grateful to Trump for the opportunity to defend their own country.
There are many concerns about this plan, but I can't my head round why Ukraine should have to cap their military at all. I mean its an obvious answer, but why do Russia want Ukraine to have a downsized military?
You then have this idea that the US will mediate between NATO and Russia...WTF does that mean? That would have been like England mediating between the UK and EU during the Brexit debacle. It'd makes no sense unless the US is planning to withdraw from the alliance.
The territorial losses are hard to stomach and morally repugnant, but to be honest at some point Ukraine has to accept they won't get them back territory that Russia has invaded, however giving up land the Russians haven't managed to seize is surely a red line for Zelensky.
This plan may bring short term peace, but there is a real danger it might bring long term war, but this time Europe could be dragged in, particularly if Trump did pull out of NATO.
Russian mindset… they get some control over Ukraine. There is precedent re Germany post WWI.
But, the important thing for Russia is that it has control over Ukraine. Therefore Ukraine is Russian.
''Programs for mass treatment and…rehabilitation''. Yes, we know all about the Ruzzian/Soviet tradition of rehabilitation as perfected over the centuries.
The Republican party is no longer the party of Reagan. Reagan would turn in his grave to see a US government acting as a Russian proxy. However the US electorates gullibility is also part of the problem. There is a massive amount of smoke regarding him Russia. Fortunately they are dealing up but they should have done so last November.
More details of the European counter proposal including:
- caps Ukrainian army at 800,000 "in peacetime".
- No permanent NATO troops on Ukraine "in peacetime:.
- Article 5 style US security guarantees for Ukraine.
- Ukraine not to use force to recover territories.
- Ukraine compensated with frozen Russian assets.
Or by insiders who know it stinks.
Russia claims Ukraine fired ATACMS missiles at the city of Voronezh for the first time 4 days ago. Russia claims they were intercepted. But they often lie about interceptions, which are then disproved on social media. And even with interceptions, debris can cause damage.
Michael Clarke on Sky says theres no way the US will give Article 5 levels of security as Europe wants.
The European proposal.
I wish Ukraine and eu would just sideline the US. Trump whines on about Europe not doing more. Just take over. Just need to keep buying weapons but not sure if eu can replace us for intelligence.
is that the million dollar ?
10 Trillion rubles.
The Russian Central Bank just announced there's a black hole of 10 Trillion rubles in unpaid loans to the central bank. That's 24% of the Russian budget just disappeared in one year that people can't pay back.
No chance of a deal here, Russia has crazy conditions, that make no sense whatsoever if they really wanted a lasting peace, their conditions only make sense if they want time to regroup and try again.
I am convinced now that the Europeans actually believe 100% that Ukraine are winning this conflict you know.
So are Whitcoff and Rubio going to fly to Moscow now and give that proposal to Putin ?
Quite concerning Bricky.
How's the fall of Pokrovsk coming along....you were crowing about it's imminent fall recently but you've gone fairly quite ?
There is a serious problem with extremism in the Republican party, and coddling of foreign dictators. While they coddled Pinochet in the 1970s, Saddam Hussein in the 1980s and Pol Pot in the 1970s, they werent proposing such a system for the US until now.
Sky News report on Far Right Americans moving to Russia because they dont like LGBT people in the West. Say "for God and Providence you were meant to go to this". Also a former Conservative party councillor from the UK. They get so called "shared values visas" and can apply for citizenship.
The American couple who talked to Sky say they were scammed out of $50000 by the person who sponsored them, and one of their sons has gone home after problems getting into a school.
Pokrovsk is very foggy at the moment Mike, lots of misinformation with all these negotiations going on. Hopefully we will all see the reality soon enough. There is a video going around which shows that the cauldron around Myrnohrad is totally closed now but again time will tell what the reality actually is.
Russian humour. The kremlin dies. Ha. Ha. Russian humour.
Google translate and youtube audio translate did it's thing.
Do you what isn’t foggy, Bricky my neutral brother? Reports that the Russians have bombed and killed Ukrainian children in their beds up to and including last week when apartment buildings were deliberately targeted.
Since you are so willing to defend the Russians ablaze with incredible neutrality, perhaps you can go even futher and explain to us why one would defend them so much…when they do such things to sleeping innocents who will never complete their childhoods. Care to enlighten us…Bricky?
Not a hope will the EU counter be anywhere near accepted. Their proposal seems to have logic so it won’t go well with Putin and Trump.
You never know they might accept it, if not we need to see what the Orcs counter propose with in the coming weeks once they have deliberated it fully.
I really hope that one day you can reflect on what made you want to simp for a bunch of fascist's committing genocide.
Rubio saying there has been some changes to the 28 point plan.
It's 9 months since Trump and his lackeys went for Zelensky in the oval office. It feels we've come full circle with his treacherous behavior. No doubt the Epstein stuff has played a big part with the timing. The question is, how much further down the line are Europe now, than they were in February, when it comes to stepping up, if MAGA pulls the bulk of its support?
With the state the Russian economy is in, it seems like a bad joke that so much pressure is being put on Ukraine to accept this ridiculous agreement. Putin might have been removed at this point, if Trump hadn't been elected again.
13. Russia to be progressively re-integrated into the global economy
a. Sanction relief will be discussed and agreed upon in phases and on a case-by-case basis.
c. Russia to be invited back into the G8
Russia was kicked out of the G8 back in 2014 for invading Ukraine and seizing it's territory. Now Europe want to let Russia back in, when they have a lot of territory than 2014. What a joke. Putin must be knocking back the expensive stuff tonight. Europe have taken the bait, when they should have told him and the Americans, to get fucked. Add all that to the ridiculous armed forces cap.
I can't say I'm too surprised given Europes pathetic response to Gaza. But since this is a major concern for security in Europe, I thought they might step up.
Ah! There we are….the “Orcs”
It’s not going to work, but the effort is fun to watch.
The “Orks” bomb children Bricky, which is something that should be condemned by those who use that colourful moniker for them. Do you wish to join us in that condemnation? Or shall we allow silence to yet again rubbish any notions that the use of “orcs” might afford such a neutral position?
What does she say f8cking pigs? Is that it? 🤣
The Washington Post has run an article which confirms the Ukrainians - in the shape of Umerov - had significant input into drafting the 28 point peace plan. For example, the 26th point, which offers full amnesty for all actions during the conflict, was inserted at the insistence of the Ukrainians. It was not about immunity for war crimes (though it would cover that too). Zelensky and his circle wanted immunity from any possible investigations into war time corruption and skimming of the donated funds. Its not purely a Ukrainian concern either - I would think there is many wealthy figures in the US and Europe who would be happy to not look too hard where all the donated billions ended up in the end.
Umerov also demanded the nominal limitation of a 600,000 strong Ukrainian army. Such a "limit" would allow Ukraine to field the 8th largest military in the world. Larger the militaries of France, Germany and the UK combined, while having a population that is just half the size of the UK and an economy smaller than Hungary. It isn't a real limit which is why Umerov suggested such a figure.
The article also says the reason the US worked on this effort is because the US is now recognising the string of recent Ukrainian defeats means the a full collapse of Ukraine is possible and they don't want to see that. This might also explain why Umerov was willing to contribute to the document and even concede the possibility of evacuating from the Donbass in exchange for a freeze elsewhere.
The Russian reaction to the US plan has not been encouraging - apparently the Ukrainians are desperate for an energy ceasefire, and the US thought the Russians might be willing to accept given the immense damage already done to the Ukrainian energy infrastructure by Russian strikes. However the Russians have said an energy ceasefire is a non-starter.
