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brickstser69
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Radicalized —> up all night monitoring telgram and fighting the 'bots' etc. The overton window has shifted massively if being in favour of peace and human rights is regarded as being radicalised.
It seems that some here want nothing less than the extermination of the entire slavic peoples in Russia and abroad and not just death but torturing them to death. I don't know why you would find something you disagree with hysterical…
Mod Edit: Warned for trolling
Even if Putin's regime collapsed tomorrow but Trump was still antagonistic against NATO what happens all the US bases in NATO countries?
He doesn't have a plan, never did.
Here's the one from 3 days previous.
https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512629
I emailed the OSCE to get clarification as I was shocked.
Unless you're suggesting Russia had a secret operation to attack Donbas/ Luhansk? I think the burden is on you to prove that Russia or Donabs were killing themselves before the 24 February invasion. Sounds similar to Russia blowing up its own pipeline conspiracy theories.
You're not wrong in principal but the EU often can't act together on issues. Putin would play one against the other and pick one off at a time.
Indeed. No one from 5 years ago in their wildest imagination predicted the current craziness at the moment. Which is why we seem to keep getting caught blindsided.
For these reasons we have to factor in unpleasant scenarios no matter how far fetched they may seem. A possible fracture in the EU, the US leaving NATO, vastly increased hybrid warfare from Putin, something happening between China/Taiwan, changes in politics (populists, far right) and so on.
If we can come up with something solid and resistant to all that - then we can hopefully keep Putin in his box while his economy slowly rots from within.
Peacekeeping is fanciful nonsense that does nothing but put European troops in harms way whilst Putin rebuilds. Europe need to forget the yanks, get full square behind Ukraine and end this thing, restoring Ukraine to at least its 2022 border. In return, Ukraine will need to cut deals with Europe for the supply of gas and prescious metals and minerals to reinvigorate the European economy with a view to at some stage in the future, joining the EU.
Contracts need to move away from US suppliers and towards European companies in all parts of Europe so everyone has a stake in the game. Theres plenty of capacity in Sweden, Finland, Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands to lead the charge on major items and Britain needs to come back to the table. Brexit was a farce, they need to admit it and realign.
They are delusional. Excluding EU and Ukraine will make their decisions irrelevant.
Maybe MBS can call up the Khashoggi team for a special military operation.
Up until last week, Europe didn't want to talk to war criminal Putin.
Now they are asking for a place at the table.
We are really between a rock and a hard place here.
Another facet is that Trump's plan for Gaza is very unpopular domestically in Saudi Arabia, but he seems oblivious to criticism.
Because if you take for example the Baltic states, 3 countries that Putin almost certainly has machinations for, Russia has already since 2022 taken more landmass in Ukraine than exists in Latvia for example. And utterly flattened most of the areas they've taken. Since it seems to be the only way they can make advances.
Yes if NATO got involved, even without direct US involvement Russia would probably be routed eventually. But the amount of damage they could do before that could undo any or all of the Baltic states as prosperous EU countries. It would be an absolute calamity that could take decades to recover from, if ever. And should be avoided at all costs.
And the best way to do that is hand them a definitive loss in Ukraine as a lesson.
Care to explain what you mean by radicalized? Eg it would be pretty fair to say you are in fact radicalised with the views you hold. You can say there are no angels but given the fact Russia did the invasion, Ukraine are in fact the angels in this scenario. Russia are the genocidal regime. Russia are the ones kidnapping children. Russia committed things like the Bucha Massacre. Prior to that Russia literally infiltrated the Ukrainian government with Yanukovych who then refused to represent the electorate. Putin just couldn't even allow Ukraine to have a basic relationship with the EU... So Russia has actively tried to hijack Ukraine's political system to keep them reliant on Russia.
Also, I find it hysterical that you're using Orban as a reference point. Firstly he is notorious for his human rights record and has domestically tried to replicate domestic policies that Russia have (anti LGBT laws, preventing freedom of expression etc). He's been Putin's eu supporter throughout this war and he's scum.
CFTrump and Putler are playing at their own post-WWII Yalta with this Saudi meeting sh1te. Pathetic, and shows just how clueless Trump and his lackeys are about international affairs. And Vance is just as bad and a heartbeat away.
Hopefully, as they say here, Ukraine tells them wrt to whatever proposal they belch out, to get up the yard with it.
Why so much panic about the USA no longer covering Europe's a**?
Isn't it already the case that Putin's Soviet-era army and weaponry can barely contain a very poorly supported Ukraine?
If I'm right, wouldn't the combined might of, for example, UK, France, Italy and Germany defeat Putin's collection of forcibly conscripted convicts?
Yes, Putin has the nuclear option, but no amount of USA protection will help against that.
In conventional military terms, Russia has no chance against a NATO that doesn't even need the USA, no?
What am I missing here? Any military experts amongst us?
D.
The only positive of any peace talks between Trump and Putin is that the two of them in the same place makes an incredible target for anyone in favour of world peace.
I know security would be incredibly tight but all it takes is a 21st century Claus von Stauffenberg to be more successful and we could all sleep easier.
The only certainty with any Trump led plan is it's as solid as the wall that he got Mexico to pay for, which essentially means he's all bluster.
There isn't going to be a peace keeping scenario. Europe either supports Ukraine militarily or it stands back and watches Russia eventually take the whole of Ukraine and accept 20+ million refugees.
Nice freudian slip there ;)
Said before if Europe wants to do it's best to support Ukraine + purchase American weapons down the line nothing is stopping them. The more beneficial this war is to Trump the stronger his hand will be negotiating with Putin.
On another note did anyone think Ukraine would be holding so much of Kursk come mid February? I'm starting to believe they could be there for a while. In total so far it's redirected a massive amount of Russian firepower from Ukraine.
If they were going to have to commit that number of troops for very long term peacekeeping ,
Would they be better off sending troops into Ukraine now , to defend areas away from the front , operating air defense, engage in training and maintenance,logistics and security
Which would release a sizeable contingent of Ukrainians for service in eastern Ukraine,
and put far more pressure on Russia now ,
Firstly, I don't think the US administration is capable of coming up with a peace plan that Europe could agree to, let alone Ukraine. It's going to be; accept this capitulation to Putin's interests, because we are ceasing to help Ukraine in any way.
So I don't think there is going to be a peace keeping force situation, from Europe's perspective, theres going to be a binary choice between letting Putin have all of Ukraine and accommodate the largest wave of refugees the world has ever seen, or to get militarily involved and defeat Russia.
Who said anything about it only being the UK? Zelensky's estimate is 100 k troops needed for peace keeping. Every European member state with functional military would need to commit almost half their forces.
This like the 3rd or 4th time you've tried this particular piece of old debunked propaganda.
Ukraine was a democratic country minding it's own business. Putin has attacked it continually, meddling politically, then annexing territory, starting a proxy invasion and now a full on style invasion attempt.
To justify all that he has to push out propaganda.
You repeat this propaganda here and despite all these other posters explaining it to you, so far your posts have shown you are impervious to facts.
Again, none of these replies are for your benefit. They do highlight that propaganda, no matter how absurd, can be potent for some individuals. Even if it's just one person on a forum.
Russia does not want Europe at the Ukraine talks, do I suppose their MAGA puppets will go along with that:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-lavrov-why-would-europe-be-ukraine-talks-if-they-want-war-carry-2025-02-17/
But Trump wants European troops to be prepared to act as a peacekeeping force. What sort of charlatans, clowns and totally untrustworthy people want Euope to commit troops to a big and hazardous operation, when they have been excluded from negotiations?
Are we looking a real time disintegration of our world order. Exaggeration probably but in many decades of reading about world affairs I have never seen an accepted order being overturned so quickly. Peace talks about a conflict in Europe taking place between US and Russia but excluding the country that was invaded and the continent on which it is taking place. Unprecedented. Leaves Britain and the EU completely floundering. I have no idea what happens now. Does anyone. I read that Poland will not supply peacekeepers to Ukraine. Where will the West get up 250, 000 soldiers and who will pay the astronomical cost.... maybe some of our Apple money!!!!!
Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski yesterday said having Polish troops on the ground in Ukraine was "not a consideration, because Poland's duty to NATO is to protect the eastern flank, i.e. its own territory"
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-countries-will-not-create-one-united-army-says-polands-sikorski-2025-02-16/
PM Tusk also has this morning confirmed it is not under consideration for Poland. Maybe they have figured out or have been told the reality of how things really are.
Many people hold the view that the Maidan revolution was a US backed coup
yes, but those people are absolute morons and should not be listened to under any circumstances.
In the subsequent civil war 14,000 people died and Ukraine became known as the most corrupt nation in Europe.
Wasn't a civil war, Russia invaded. Also they were the most corrupt nation in Western Europe cause that's what happens when you live under Soviet rule for so long. They have never been as corrupt as Russia itself.
Thanks
The OCSE report, if you aren't aware, references Putin's proxy invasion of East Ukraine. Russia attacking Ukraine.
Russia signed up for a "ceasefire" during that invasion, which it broke repeatedly on Ukrainian territory. It did so to provoke a response from Ukraine to validate a long planned full scale invasion that going ahead anyway.
As for the paywalled article from 7 years earlier. Obama didn't want to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia, because Putin would have possibly used that as a pretext to escalate his localized invasion to a full-scale invasion (which he did anyway)
At no point has Ukraine ever been a threat to nuclear-armed Russia. Moscow does however produce a lot of bad propaganda to validate their land-grab which you seem to continually fall for.
A few quick questions on this. Does anyone have any idea what the realistic outcome of the meeting in Paris will be? Do the UK and the EU have the appetite for a decade-plus operation in that part of the world? What role, if any, would Ireland play in it?
The fact is Ukraine was a peaceful democracy pretty much minding its own business and Russia attacked it.
Many people hold the view that the Maidan revolution was a US backed coup and there's vast evidence to support that argument and its undeniable that Nuland was involved. In the subsequent civil war 14,000 people died and Ukraine became known as the most corrupt nation in Europe. Crimea which was gifted to Ukraine was stolen back 60 years later during the Maiadan revolution. A long time could be spent discussing those events.
Ukraine has recently become less corrupt according to UK based transparency international but to say it was a peaceful democracy pretty much minding its own business and Russia attacked it is a massive stretch or at least appears that way to me.
I think in all these circumstances we need to look at ourselves too. Nobody is arguing Russia is a utopian country and I think it is important to recognise same about Ukraine. The stupid and unnecessary war that is resulting in horrific slaughter of Ukraine and Russian people should be stopped and a peace deal thrashed out imho.
The OSCE https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512842
Obama https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/politics/obama-said-to-resist-growing-pressure-from-all-sides-to-arm-ukraine.html
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