Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
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Original thread:
Sure they said they will show it to Trump so there goes that!
For many years the western forces have been landing missiles on Middle Eastern ‘ threats’ all over the place. The USA bombed Libya into collapse. But the same ‘ ever ready for a fight’ powers demand that Ukraine, an invaded independent nation fights its much larger invader with its hands behind its back.
Heck I'm certain, without in fact knowing, that US Intel uses triple agents to feed them information, as much as it is probable that double agents also feed them information, and vice versa. Must be a fun time sorting through it all.
!!!
Given the rumours that someone high up in US military feeds information to the Russians, let's hope Ukraine is careful just who they release details to, certainly bold announcement:
Appalling and a massive slap in the face to the victim's family. Russia is not far off Taliban these days in terms of women's rights and preference given to violent men as long as they serve the regime
Russia vs. Ukraine is starting to remind me of playing Risk: you think you have this little country bagged with your huge army on your tile but then you keep losing like 30 successive dice rolls and now have to defend an entire continent with a skeleton crew.
Read the comments on that good lad. You are as delusional as the OP of that X post. Sure they are always claiming we shot down 200 out of 20 missiles and 400 drones out of 40.
The US government have to give the Ukrainian Armed Forces permission to use the long range missiles in Russian territory. Once the US government give the green light, the UK, France , Germany, Sweden etc will all follow the lead.
In the meantime it looks like Ukraine have successful tested a new long range new drone capable of 200km radius.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZ3Gl4QqQ0
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1f2e9j2/eu_high_representative_calls_for_lifting/
Didn't we risk that already?
I’m pretty sure that Beijing already has plans “in the drawer” for that type of eventuality, and have probably already reached out to people they consider as possible replacements for Putin. China’s primary interest is the security of its own borders and that of its sphere of influence in Central Asia, not any personal interest in Putin or his cronies. And from what I’ve seen with that new gas pipeline, the refusal of Chinese banks to outright violate western sanctions, and what appears to be a series of cyberattacks on Russia by Chinese hackers, even that relationship is lukewarm at best. As such, I presume that Beijing would drop Putin like a hot potato once his position becomes untenable.
If those are the Chinese thoughts in the situation, they're placing a lot of stock in the idea that the Russian public won't eventually get fed up with the situation and just overthrow Putin, anyway.
The idea has some basis in that the Russian people certainly have seemed apathetic toward the war and servile to Putin, but dictatorships are brittle:- they're strong until they're suddenly not.
China don't want Russia to lose.
They want Russia as a patsy and they don't want to lose that relationship by allowing Russia to collapse on account of them not assisting in some way. There's no formal defence alliance so arguably they're already going above and beyond. Think the way Russia props up smaller patsies but on a larger scale in this case. A weaker Russia that doesn't lose suits China as they are then the boss of that relationship.
Now imagine if they'd another 5 or 6 patriots along with other modern air defence. Hopefully by year 3 Ukraine will be in a better position.
There is no way the Chinese want Putin to actually lose, bled dry maybe but Putin has to stay in power in Russia with enough of an army and nukes that the US has to maintain some force in Europe and cant concentrate against China, or absolute worst case scenario to avoid a leader who might even align with the West against them.
I don't know (so "certainly" was poor word to use). I am basing my belief off relationship the 2 dictators seem to have, refusal of China to call what has happened an invasion or a war, or to offer criticism of Russia's actions at all.
I believe Russia and China have been working together in more areas over last decade or so (or since Xi assumed power in China) and seem to have common goals as regards opposing, undermining and weakening the US + Western countries. Russia getting a win of some sort in Ukraine seems to further this greatly. Putin actually losing, maybe being forced from power, political instability in Russia and uncertainly in their relationship with China doesn't.
You would imagine incorrectly I think. I mean if you want to get into 3rd parties supplying Russia with Western military stuff (?) or something, where did NK get weaponry from? Anyway, I don't think (and never said) Russia is a "proxy" for China (though maybe they could become that, if the war carries on for long enough).
LOL, I doubt the US is more than 1% weaker after donating all their old gear to Ukraine, if anything Western countries are stronger as they're investing in defence.
Weaken the West militarily before invading Taiwan.
How do you know they don't want Putin to lose? Is it just because they sell stuff to Russia?
Hard to say this is a proxy war between China and the West when the West is selling bullets and missiles and China is selling factory machinery. I would imagine Russia is getting more military equipment from the West through proxies than they're getting from China.
That is a bit disingenuous.
They sell some consumer drones and parts and stuff to Ukraine.
They sell dual use stuff, turnkey machinery for kitting out weapons factories, as well as non lethal military aid to Russia.
The kind of thing governments keep quite a tight reign on I think, because it is dangerous and has military uses.
There is just no way they would provide that stuff to Ukraine in my opinion, even if Ukraine wanted to buy it!
There is geopolitics behind why China supplies Russia with the help it does, it is not about China's commercial sector & profits.
They certainly do give a damn about the outcome of this war IMHO, they don't want Putin/Russia to lose basically.
So far they are not prepared to stick their necks out for Russia as much as Western countries have backed Ukraine, and the invasion (and how disasterously it has gone for Putin) is allowing them to increase their control and influence over Russia.
Would be interesting to see what happens to their support if it ever looks like Russia is suffering a reverse/and their military effort in Ukraine might collapse etc.
Why would China give a damn about a war in Europe. They're making money selling to both sides.
Did we wring our hands when European countries were supplying the US war effort in the Middle East?
Ukraine hunts drones with helicopters and hunts helicopters with drones.
Lavrov must MUST feel like a fool, having to spout this stuff in polite society.
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2024/0827/1466855-ukraine-russia-war/
I get what you mean (both parties need outside support to fight on) but am allergic to calling it that (given the Russian propaganda talking point that Ukraine is somehow used as a "proxy" by the US/NATO to fight Russia).
Ukraine is not the aggressor. Ukraine (and the countries backing it now) did not want a war, Ukraine didn't do anything to Russia to deserve this, and both Ukraine and its supporters did as much as they could diplomatically to try and prevent the war IMO.
Russia as a Chinese proxy is also debatable.
The 'no permission' point is the big seller for me. Here, Uncle Vlad, suck on this…
Its obviously welcome , but unlikely to be a huge deal , ballistic missiles are expensive and complicated to make, it's gonna cost a couple of million a shot to make these , and probably slow to make , and starting from scratch.. so no stockpile built up in easier times ,
And obviously Russia can take out some in mid air with s400, the further away the target is the longer an s400 has to line up on one ,
But the good points,
likely way better range than atacms delivered to Ukraine - so even the threat will draw away even more of those scarce s400s ,+ the pantsirs needed to protect them ,
No need to ask the US for permission to use ..😁
Probably a big payload , hopefully with a variety of warheads for different targets .
Trying to steal our precious fluids..
Just like that
Gentlemen,You can't fight in here!
This is the War room!
Better off burning in russia than in the skies and fields of Ukraine.
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