Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
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Original thread:
With a promise from Uncle Vlad ……
Hazard a guess
( I'd give him max 36 hours )
It's not that "everything is a war crime these days" painting it as some new foolishness.
It is that a lot of this stuff (e.g. blowing up a dam so as to flood a region, and kill/drive all the people out of it) became "war crimes" post WW2.
Unfortunately for whatever reason we now seem to be regressing and may be entering a darker era where states with amoral/evil leadership that are powerful enough are going to do all of this stuff again unashamedly with impunity. Russia is leading the way and blazing the trail.
Perhaps something to do with WW2 receding from living memory?
This is what I think of everytime I hear that Belarus is concentrating troops on their border with Ukraine.
which is why the Ukrainians now keep pleading with allies to allow them to use long range weapons within Russia
With this sentence you seem to imply, the “gamble” as you call it, is a failure. I wouldn’t agree with you. To me, Ukraine doesn’t gamble. They try to make maximum damage to Russia with as less loses as possible.
Also while adhering to Geneva conventions
They could attack nuclear plants, blow up dams, destroy hospitals/kindergartens/apartments and torture and kill prisoners like them “ordinary” Russians do with disturbing regularity
But they don’t, instead concentrating on military and regime targets
While we in west do **** all, if Ukraine loses will we do the same while its EU cities that get attacked in same manner next?
Yeah, but Suckler clearly showed themselves up on their own, so all good. You bringing this all up again isn’t going to do you any favours.
Bizarre. Ukraine has ALWAYS been looking for long range capability. 🤦♂️
Ukraine invading Russia and looking for long range weapons has no causal relationship.
It is depressing. Seems to be nothing at all that Russia can do that will induce current US admin. to remove any more restrictions on weapons supply and use, or push forward other things that might help e.g. NATO air defences helping to cover Western parts of Ukraine.
There may be paralysis in US decisons on all matters regarding the war coming up to their election - the aid to Ukraine, Russian sanctions (non)eforcement, how NATO should deal with Russia's escalating grey zone warfare and attacks in Europe.
IMO it is terror from the Biden admin. of daring to change up anything in US foreign policy towards Ukraine/Russia war or in the ME, lest it affects the chances of defeating Trump in Nov. Unfortunately war is, I think, unstable and unpredictible by nature, and events may not wait on their preplanned democratic timetable. I would be kind fearful of what Russia might get away with (or perhaps I should say believe they can get away with) in Ukraine over next few months on the run up.
Ukraine has shown massive restraint in the face of Russian barbarity throughout this war.
One of the drones from todays attack on Ukraine ended up in Poland
Instead of slapping Putin so hard he doesn’t even consider using drones in western directions, we get nothing
I would agree, that WWII receding from memory could be a reason. But one big reason is countries not having a free press. This gives their government carte blanche to do whatever atrocities that they want without their citizens having to know about it. When there is no shock or outrage from the people against the atrocity, the status quo is kept in leadership.
That's incredibly far away. Surely this isn't from a drone strike? Saboteurs, maybe?
Depressing and bizarre. I don't think it's terror myself that's holding them back. Putin has been shown up to be a bully whose threats are almost meaningless at this stage. He'll do what he wants regardless of red lines. There was no line crossed for him to start his damn invasion. I think oil hit a decent price at the time, which is just as likely the trigger.
While its easy to slam the US, Europe has been holding back too much too and using similar reasoning that might as well amount to appeasement. "We'll help them fight you back but not enough that you'll actually lose". It still hasn't dawned on most populations that this is a European war. It hits home for me regularly in conversations among my own social circle. Those seeds of mass confusion and disarray are the result of a very long game that dictatorships like Putin and the CCP have played out via massive disinformation campaigns and every population has its fair share of edgelords, contrarians, peaceniks (call them what you will) to cause a quite viscous inertia against making, what history will hopefully show, the correct decisions today.
The big nations never stopped committing war crimes. It's nothing to do with WWII receding. Torture and carpet bombing civilians never went away.
We in Europe have been sheltered from war for too long that we think it will never come to our doorsteps.
Putin was right, the West has gone soft.
No one said that they stopped.
All war is brutal and full of awful things, it is however only western or heavily western influenced states that take any heed of such things or have populations that care for such things or would view them as wrong.
Gone soft and worse again run down armies to being completely ineffectual and weapon reserves down to levels where training is a problem never mind combat or sustained combat.
Gone soft and no gun.
I didn't mean the longstanding terror of Putin or Russia and "escalations", or Russian state collapsing into chaos if it loses the war etc. (and probably "terror" is too strong!).
I think there may be an additional fear (or a different fear if other one is waning with time?) in Biden admin. now (just a few months away from the election) that they change things up (e.g. further relaxation of restrictions on weapons use) the impact at home could be unpredictible, so steady as she goes. I think that's a mistake as war is unpredictible anyway.
I don't mean to blame the US, but they are the ones with the most weapons that can help Ukraine, they lead NATO and have a big effect on the policy of the other NATO countries in Europe more affected by the war.
Bar extreme circumstances, the others cannot or will not make big decisions themselves without the US leading or at least encouraging them.
Yes, I totally agree with you about how disengaged from it people in this country (Ireland) seem to be anyway. If following international news and events, they seem more worried and absorbed by the ME and Israel/Palestine etc., which is a bit mad on the face of it.
No, you just misrepresnted and misunderstood what I'd said but lacked the ability to admit you assumed wrong. Instead you stuck your fingers in your ears and proceeded with a nonsensical "you meant, you meant, you meant!!" ramble insisting you were right. At this point I have to ask if English is your first language?
Also it's (unsurprisingly) unclear as to who or what you're now responding to…but I'm sure you've 'assumed' we'd know…
Sorry but I took you to mean that war crimes are something creeping back in.
It was reported as an accidental target.
You’re more transparent than you think. Your narrative is false. I already allowed you the last word, after repeatedly correcting you, because you have nothing else to do. But, here we are again. Either you or your fellow traveller seem to want to initiate nonsense. Try to grow up and stop derailing the thread. It’s like as if you don’t want this thread topic to be discussed. 👀
Actually, I’m done with this, spew your BS all you like.
Seeing how all of the useful idiots are busy on the Durov subject it’s obvious the Kremlin is in full panic mode about their and their armed forces and population in general reliance on Telegram
He was born in Pretoria and grew up in South Africa. He has Canadian citizenship through his Canadian mother which he got when he was a teenager moving there and later also got American citizenship.
If Ukraine take Kursk it would be a huge feather in their cap. Russia don't seem to be capable/interested of/in stopping them.
How naive do you have to be to think Russia signing up to anything means they will adhere to it? Ask the Ukrainians how much Russia's signature to any agreement is worth
No, you're projecting things I never intended. I don't think the gamble was a failure, unless its main aim was to slow Russia's progress in eastern Ukraine by making them divert troops - if anything the opposite has happened.
As a morale booster and as another humiliation to Putin it's been a success. It also allowed them as already said to hit good military targets and capture prisoners to be swapped. All these things are good.
Whether it will strengthen their hand in negotiations or slow Russia's progress in the east, which most experts agree are the two bigger aims, I think it's still too early to tell
236 different types of missiles and drones fired in Ukraine!
Give the Ukrainians what they need,and let them hit whatever they want inside russisa.
Get this damn "Special Military Operation" finished once and for all!!
Western troops need to protect the Belorussian border and free up Ukrainian troops there. The west needs to get over its cowardice.
