BYD price certainty?? Not a hope they can compete in sizeable manner in this market without big cuts. Hyundai, Kia, Polestar, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Skoda will all have to cut prices to see any hope of decent sales
Yeah no doubt, but 15 units won’t make any difference - that dealer is probably selling 50 Golfs in the same period
Interestingly, Golf sales are up 5x versus 2023 and are VW’s biggest selling vehicle by far.
EVs account for 14% of VW sales this year versus 24% last year
VW dealer in Kerry said they were selling diesel Golf's all over the country to folk with diesel Focus, Corolla's, Honda's and wanted to buy diesel again. Think Honda in particular are facing extinction in Ireland without a diesel option
I wonder if some diesel drivers think that they need to get into a new diesel before you can't get one anymore.
It's not just "ice car ban" - manufacturers have been hinting at and reducing their diesel.
No diesel in the new 5 series and obviously Corollas are now hybrid only.
Forget the EV thing for a moment.
But there's diesel drivers whod consider it a total DISASTER if they had to drive a petrol or any form of hybrid.
Yeah I suspect there's an element of this, a lot of folks are reluctant to change and may be viewing this as the last diesel before they're "forced" to go hybrid or electric
Also to be clear, I don't think anyone is being forced to change, new ICE sales ban isn't until 2035 and there'll still be used cars available probably up to 2050
Worth keeping in mind the refreshed ID.4 doesn't start deliveries until April I think
I don't see anyone buying the current 77kWh unless they're stuck or they get an awesome deal
I'm not expecting VW EV sales will go through the roof, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got back to where they were in 2023
For some context, my ID.4 1st Max cost approximately €57k new in 2021
The Max trim which was basically the same (included the heat pump) was €68k the next two year as I recall
The refreshed ID.4 with the same spec as mine costs around €47k now
My car seems to be worth €35-37k selling privately at the moment
So as little as €10k to upgrade, not the worst deal more a much better software version and another 60hp or so
I agree the 1st editions were excellent value, from then on VW we're seeing more demand than supply so they just charged whatever they wanted
Now they're facing significant competition and can't count on brand loyalty to keep people coming back (there's a lot of Golf owners will only buy a Golf, not sure the same is true for ID owners)
Overall, this is good for the buyer of 2024, but probably bad news for the buyers of 2022-23
Honda, Jaguar, Alfa and Subaru haven’t even sold a combined 100 cars in 2024.
they're all officially dead in Ireland.
I’d be surprised if you got anything close to that money when it actually comes to doing a deal, to be quite honest.
there are lots and lots of 2023 ID4’s for €35-38k from dealers online, with the remaining VW warranty.
no idea on spec’s, but options have almost zero value in the 2nd hand market bar making the sale a bit quicker
Fair point, a lot of us want diesels for good reason, yet are faced with less and less decent options to choose from, I bought a new diesel in Feb that is soon to be discontinued. Hopefully the manufacturers take note
Just the Max trim versus the current pro plus offering. Don't you have to add the heatpump to the Proplus to bring it to similar spec? and also doesn't have Glass roof?
I think it’s fair to say at this stage that if you wanted a new EV in Jan or Feb, you could’ve got one, suggesting as we’ve said before that the mass market buyer isn’t following the early adopters - indeed a portion of the 2024 sales will be existing EV owners trading up
I meant equivalent to my 1st Max with no heat pump, so Pro Plus with the exterior style pack plus, assist pack plus and comfort pack plus comes to €47,895 I think
Also I forgot to add the DCC but it never seemed to make any difference to me so I wouldn't be buying it again, but that would add another €1k or so
If I was changing I'd be tempted to get the heat pump since it looks like it might enable some thermal scavenging from the battery (based on the ID.7 reviews)
I doubt if you’ll get any more than €32K for your 2021 ID.4 unless it’s tiny mileage and absolutely mint.
Have you seen Honda prices? The Civic costs €49,000. You can buy a Tesla for considerably less.
There's a Honda dealer near me who seems to be doing no business and with those prices I don't see that changing.
Are you offering? Because it is low mileage and generally in good condition 😉
The point I was trying to make is that the trade in value of the 2021 cars isn't too bad
However people who bought in the last two years aren't likely to see good value on their trade in
Also while the price cuts are welcome, they're still not that great when you compare them to the 2021 prices
Just to clarify the big drop mostly comes from a complete drop in ID.4 sales YoY. All pre-facelift models would have had to have been registered in January since deliveries of them stopped back in December.
So there's no stock left to register and the new model isn't due until April. Couple that with the crippling motor shortages affecting the new ID.4, ID.5, ID.7, Enyaq, and Q4 and H1 2024 will probably seriously underperform.
No thanks but best of luck if you’re selling. Used EV trade values are just all over the place at the moment. Market just doesn’t seem to be there for them despite continued high running costs for anyone buying petrol/diesel at €1.70 per litre.
Nah I'm not selling, just kidding around
Used prices definitely seem to be all over the place, there's always a mix of people looking for a quick sale and dealerships chancing there arms by putting a few grand on top of the sticker prices
But the range of prices does seem a bit crazy
I think a surge of EVs will happen within the next year because of a number of converging factors...........
One above all else I think - when the price of petrol / diesel approaches and goes past €2 per litre, then the consideration of an EV will come into much sharper focus
Are manufacturers passing through these battery savings (or saying that they will)? Fantastic if so but this will further depress 2nd hand prices, considerably more in all likelihood.
It should already be a serious consideration, I'm on the board gas .27cent 24 hr rate, nothing fancy doesn't matter when I plug in the car or the tumble dryer. The last 3000km (over 14 days) cost me €159.27 without any stress and no range anxiety.
I could make it cheaper if I was bothered but I'm not, no diesel or petrol comes near that cost.
I think the arse is going to fall out of the diesel market when the current business class long range EV's come down to used 520d money.
What would you consider an example of a business class longe range EV that would entice folks out of their 520d’s ?
When the i5 reaches price parity with one it'll be a no brainer. I can't see that happening though. How many drivers are emptying a full tank in a 520d every day..
Funnily enough, I was enticed out of a decade long obsession with 520d MSports into an Ioniq 6. Perhaps it's not business class, but it's certainly long range.
I'm not sure if you'll find many of the business class folks on Boards though. They are probably silently getting on with buying a Mercedes EQS, ID7 or Polestar I suspect once their normal 3 year ownership cycle comes around.
The surge in sales will come with a combination of 700km+ range and quick charging.
And that is around the corner.
Chinese car IM L6 Max launching next month has a solid state battery with near 800km range and 400km charge in 12 minutes.
That will become standard in the next generation models in 2025 and 2026 and once range anxiety is gone, sales will soar.
Certainly, I'll wait for better range but will definitely go ev when that better range comes
You don't need 700km and quick charging. That's 182,000km a year just working Monday to Friday. What's the average car doing,16,000km a year or so. A solid 400km in all seasons is more than plenty for most people and we're already there.
How much range do you think you need?
