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How to approach this Roundabout

Qwerty27

Hey Folks, looking to settle an arguement on how to approach this roundabout!

Its Junction 6 off the M50 at Blanchardstown south bound. There's 2 lanes approaching the roundabout and for years I have always stayed in the left lane in order to proceeed around the roundabout to the 2nd junction. However, in the last few weeks, the road marking have been repainted and now show left lane is for the first exit only heading towards the Navan Road.

At the weekend, i approached as before but the car in the right lane then cut across me to get in the outer lane or "my" lane going around the roundabout. I had to stop on the rondabout to let him into the lane. He was following the road markings even if it didnt make sense to me to cut across on the roundabout while i think I was ok to be in the left lane for taking the second exit as I have always done and as cars in attached street view are doing.

If there had been a coming together, who would be at fault? Im more curious as I think the road marking are confusing!

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3829621,-6.3616545,3a,67.2y,192.32h,66.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTTw1h74GX0OdTYbcxtH8RQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

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Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058308596/how-to-approach-this-roundabout

I would imagine that he cannot change lane, regardless of any markings, if there is already traffic in that lane!

That said, we're crap in this country at designing roundabouts, crap at educating people about roundabouts and crap at using them!

Arnout

The design of the roundabout in itself is clear enough to me. The big problem in this country is the perpetual steel shortage to also put signs next to the road, advising which lanes to use or for example a merger of lanes. As half the time you can barely see the road markings due to traffic in front of you.

Having said that: according to Streetview the left lane already had a left-turn only arrow + the text 'CITY' on it in 2019, so it seems like you've been doing it wrong for quite some time. In all those years, did you always have too much traffic in front of you to see those markings?

ohnonotgmail

The road markings look pretty clear

Get Real

If there were no road markings then I'd agree with your approach, the left hand lane for the first and second and exits.

But imo the road markings trump the rules of the roundabout. For example the left arrow clearly means "this lane for left turn only" and occurs before the roundabout is entered into.

In theory, cars only turning left should be in this lane. So the car to your right, intending to use their lane to exit the second exit has the full presumption that

1)you're going to use the lane marked left turn only to turn left and take the first exit and

2) they, having used the correct lane to enter the roundabout, are free to proceed into the lane used in order to exit at the second exit.

Of course, they have a duty of care to ensure the lane is clear before they enter it, but also, you entered the roundabout from a lane marked left turn only. So it's 50/50 really imo. Ignoring the lane instruction by you and a lack of care upon entering the lane by them.

Also, you being in the lane continuing on when you should have turned left means they have to slow down to let you pass/before they can enter. Which has a knock on effect on the cars behind them also looking to use the 2nd or 3rd or 4th exit.

This causes traffic and encourages more people to do what you did and say "feck this, I'll use the left lane, the queue in the right is huge". Therefore negating the whole point of the "left turn only" lane and making it useless.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956291#Comment_120956291

If you ignore the fact there are lane markings, the 2nd exit is at 3 o'clock means you shouldn't be in the left lane and expecting to take it. Lane's entering a roundabout are based on how far around the clock your exit is not how many exits it takes you to get there.

Between OP ignoring lane markings, and ignoring the correct way to use a roundabout I think they're in a very sus position.

10-10-20

I had a ding-dong with another motorist on a similar roundabout and I ended up calling out the Gardai as he brake-checked me and then was aggressive.

Basically the Garda agreed that I was correctly using the left lane for the first or second exists (as I had remonstrated with the other driver about), except where there are road-markings or other signage to the contrary.

(Edited due to correction)

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956385#Comment_120956385

This always happens on roundabout threads, the RSA rules of the road say left lane up to 12 o'clock and right lane after 12 o'clock unless otherwise signed by road markings or signage. I'm not sure it's a good situation that garda are going against the road safety authority.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956317#Comment_120956317

For some reason my street view is not working properly so I can't verify, but I recently got caught at this junction.

I think the overhead "get in lane" signs guide you into that lane, going in the direction the op was going.

I remember as I wanted to go to blanch shopping centre so I wanted to remain as far left as I could and the signs were indicating that I could stay in the inner lane. Remember this is a junction not a roundabout and the two lanes feed into four lanes plus it's traffic light controlled so traffic from right is removed from equation while you are feeding into the four lanes. (Could even be 5 lanes) .

Anyway it was only when I got to the top of the slip road the markings changed and I had to move into the left lane (sorry edit: the right lane) It was a quiet Saturday morning so grand.

The car that was behind me stayed in the lane I was in (left lane) and also went to blanch 😂

It makes no sense to have one lane purely for left turns and one lane feeding into 4 lanes especially coming off the M50 at peak time the right lane would cause massive tailbacks.

Arnout

In my earlier comment I hadn't even realised that there's no "12 o'clock" exit on that roundabout and that the second exit is at "3 o'clock". Then, if you want to excuse my directness, WTF are you doing in the left lane? (unless there was a clear indication, which there isn't)

Even looking at 2018 SV. It gives two straight arrows, which I agree is ambiguous, but also text to indicate the left lane is for 'R147 CITY' and the right lane for 'N3 Cavan'.

Duine_Eigin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058308596/how-to-approach-this-roundabout

You are in the incorrect lane approaching this roundabout. If you are in a lane with a left turn only arrow, I'm not sure how you think it is OK to proceed straight ahead. The rules of the road state that if you a turning right at the roundabout or taking any exit after the 12 o'clock position, you should be in the right lane. Have a look at the video below that explains this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rsdaSTOkWk

In order to approach this roundabout correctly, you should enter the roundabout in the right lane and continue onto the middle lane below. When on the roundabout, you can follow this middle lane the whole way around to exit towards Blanch (in the right lane). Or you can change to the left lane while on the roundabout (if it safe to do so) and exit towards Blanch in the left lane.

I regularly take that same exit and I constantly see people using the wrong lane. My assumption is they introduced the road markings to free up the left lane and clear the slipway more efficiently. There is frequently a tailback on the N3 towards Blanchardstown and this tailback extends back towards the roundabout and M50 slipway. If people use the correct lanes for entering the roundabout, the left lane will remain clear for people to exit towards Castleknock. Anyone in the left lane who is turning right at the roundabout will be blocking traffic and preventing everyone in the left lane from exiting the roundabout towards Castleknock. Hope this clears things up for you.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956415#Comment_120956415

I stand corrected. I re-read the RSA rules and you're right. But the comment about the "except where there are road-markings or other signage to the contrary" remains correct.

P135:

https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r1---rules-of-the-road/ruleoftheroad_book-for-web.pdf?sfvrsn=b5d57830_7

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956559#Comment_120956559

It's frustrating, there must of been a point in time when we switched from the number of exits to clock face system. This leads to awkward situations where two drivers have conflicting ideas of how to approach the roundabout. I find the most important thing in driving is predictability, it doesn't really matter what we do so long as we are all doing it the same way.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956424#Comment_120956424

I think that's down to how the junction is "designed" as a whole. The expectation would be that only people going to Blanchardstown Village are heading up to the roundabout. Anybody heading to the centre or Snugborough Road would be expected to use the freeflow from the M50 to N3.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956424#Comment_120956424

if as you say at the top of slip (which only has 2 lanes) you pull into left lane but you ignored the fact this was a left turn only lane and continued straight to go straight to go around the roundabout and head for Blanch, but yet you seem to slag the driver behind you for obeying the lane markings 🤪

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956621#Comment_120956621

Eh read my post again. (I acknowledge in my original post I did say I moved from the left hand turn only lane into the left lane....it's only a two lane system so obviously I meant I moved into the right hand lane)

I followed the overhead signage.

I got to top realised the lane I was in was left hand turn only.

I moved to the next lane (it was quiet so very easy to do)

The car coming behind me in the left hand lane remained there. i.e the left hand turn only lane

We both went to blanch .

I obeyed the road markings,they did not.

Now if it was a busy day with traffic in both lanes it's a bit late to be finding out you're in the wrong lane especially when all the overhead signage is guiding you to that lane.

Directional arrows on roads work well when there's little traffic , but in heavy traffic with another car sitting on top of them how is it supposed to work?

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956829#Comment_120956829

eh thats not what you said which is what was confusing

anyway, i see you read your original post and have edited it now to clarify

magicbastarder

worth mentioning that this roundabout was originally built with four exits and now has three. from the 6 o'clock position the OP was entering it, s/he would have had an option of a 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock, or 3 o'clock exit. now the 12 o'clock exit is no more - i wonder if it's possible to find how much the road markings have changed since.

bazz26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc

🤣 🤣

Arnout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956914#Comment_120956914

SV goes back to 2009. Temporary situation because of roadworks, but with three lanes.

Seve OB

OP is correct, big changes to road markings in the last 6 weeks or so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956914#Comment_120956914

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956933#Comment_120956933

the OSI imagery is very blurry but i think suggests two lanes between 12 o'clock and 2 o'clock (in this image) and three lanes clockwise from 3 o'clock?

in the old image, the traffic travelling between 12 o'clock and 2 o'clock would generally have been heading for the city, or southbound on the M50. now the vast majority on that stretch would just be city bound.

Qwerty27

Intersting comments, especially from people who use the junction frequently. Not sure why anyone needs to go left at all here as there is a seperate slip road well before this for Castleknock & Navan Road. There are new markings the whole way up to the junction now and it implies that a small number of vehicles that are going left now have a lane to themselves. Meanwhile, majority of traffic should stay right in one lane before joining three lanes on the "roundabout".

Anyway, looks like I was in the wrong and should follow the road markings here in future!

hoodie6029

Is this a roundabout though? Has it got roundabout signage on the approach?

Once the grade separated junctions were added a good few years ago this went from a traffic light controlled roundabout to a road junction. It just happened to be on the remains of a roundabout.

magicbastarder

Not sure why anyone needs to go left at all here as there is a seperate slip road well before this for Castleknock & Navan Road.

if you keep left as you exit the M50 here (is this the separate slip road you are referring to?), you're directed westbound onto the N3 - blanchardstown centre/navan etc.; you *could* take this option if you wanted to go almost into blanch village first but swing around the bell and back into castleknock over the humpback bridge.

if you want to go to castleknock (e.g. up auburn avenue), you have to use the roundabout.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956974#Comment_120956974

yes was going to add same comment

pat_sconce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956973#Comment_120956973

I'd agree. It's a circulatory junction. But most will still call it a roundabout. Signage on approach has a gap between "3pm & 5pm".

The signage also shows a direct left carriage way @ 9pm and a direct right carriage way @ 3pm. Left says "Dublin, Castleknock", right says "Cavan, Blanchardstown".

So the approach signage suggests the right lane for Cavan & Blanch. The road markings suggest this too and clearly state Dublin + R147 (lane off the approach to the N3 Dublin bound) on the left lane and clearly state N3 Cavan for the right lane. The N3 Cavan itself is from the exit of the circulatory junction, so you are on the N3 before you get to the left turn junction for Blanchardstown - hence you must follow the signs for the N3 Cavan as it is the road you are travelling to albeit for a short distance of about 400m.

Duine_Eigin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956967#Comment_120956967

OP, are you're going to Blanch village after exiting the roundabout or have you been using the roundabout unnecessarily all these years...? As magicbastarder pointed out, that slip you mentioned is for the N3 towards Blanch/Navan. It loops under the slipway towards the roundabout.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956973#Comment_120956973

Definitely a roundabout with roundabout signage on approach.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956945#Comment_120956945

Big changes to the markings nearly the full length of the slip, yes. However, the left turn only marking at the entrance to the roundabout has been there for over four years. Yet still people use the left lane to go straight!

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956973#Comment_120956973

Well...

It does have the roundabout signs , but the layout isn't a traditional roundabout.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956974#Comment_120956974

Correct.

There is no need to be up on the "roundabout" at all. If you're taking the second exit, that's the one that leads up towards Blanch shopping centre, yes? You just keep all the way left when exiting the M50 an you end up on that N3 heading northwest anyway, no? Why are you ending up on the so called roundabout?

See here.

These are the lanes you're talking about as they leave the M50. Middle and Right hand lanes lead up to the round about. Left lane leads directly to N3 without having to interact with anyone going any other direction.

magicbastarder

There is no need to be up on the "roundabout" at all.

if you're heading into blanchardstown village, the roundabout is the only (sensible) option open to you.