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Mandatory vaccination in Ireland

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    There are no large blood vessels in the deltoid/shoulder muscle, vaccinators are told NOT to aspirate when injecting the vaccine into the muscle. Maybe you are using retired Nurse, John Campbell as a reference point.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Chapeau Austria! They are about to make sure vaccines protect everyone there via mandatory rule.

    I am thinking of bringing the grandkids on a trip there, to give a little cash injection, a little thank you to the country for being a shining light in these dark times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭ growleaves


    Doctors sometimes advise against vaccination.

    My friend got opinions from two doctors, first said don't do it and second said it's worth the risk so do do it

    Boardsies who say it's only allergies or "X disease doesn't clash with vaccines" are talking through their hoop.

    Doctors give individual advice based on the needs of the patient, not on the needs of a rabid political campaign to get everyone injected. So they will sometimes say don't get it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Talking through their hoop, you say, is that a scientific viewpoint, or just uninformed opinion? Can you link to studies which show illnesses which preclude the person from receiving the vaccine?

    “Doctors differ, patients die” is a quote often used when opinions don’t align. The first Doctor could be in deep **** if your friend became seriously ill from Covid as there would little science to support his/her advice. When dealing with patient concerns, the way in which a question is posed and the level of assurance the patient wants can affect the answer, “would you recommend I take the vaccine?” would illicit a different responce than “I’ll only take the vaccine if you guarantee I won’t have a reaction”, the answer to the second is, don’t get it if you want a guarantee there will be no reaction.

    That isn’t a rabid political campaign.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭ growleaves


    Individual physicians who know their patients' medical history work off of their own knowledge and background, not scientific studies exclusively.

    The point is there are doctors out there recommending people not take a vaccine and allergies to ingredients aren't the only reason for that.

    You're implying that such doctors could be guilty of malpractice and lose their licence?

    I don't believe you.

    You're a joe soap with an agenda - to pressure everyone into getting vaccinated.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    I’m a a healthcare worker who owns a Clinic with GPs, so a little more knowledgable than Joe Soap. I am not saying the GP would be guilty of malpractice, that would be for the Medical Council to decide, but certainly there would have to be a good explanation for advising a patient not to have a vaccine when HSE guidance and studies indicate the patient should have been advised to have a vaccine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭ growleaves


    Okay, fair enough you have a background that's related.

    I must assume then that some doctors are prepared to justify themselves to the Medical Council when they recommend against since it does happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭ foxsake


    A clever reword of what I said to claim I said something I did not.

    I never said people with specific illnesses - I said

    "but don't tell you that many of them are very ill and unable to take the jab."

    anyway -

    late stage cancer was one mentioned as a factor - but some people on immuno suppressing meds too.

    some people who had an extremely sh1tty reaction to 1st jab were told not to take the second.

    but don't let that stop you misrepresenting what i said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Of course they will justify it, all Doctors do when their actions are called into question. But usually at that stage their actions have led to unintended consequences which have led to a complaint. Sometimes the justification is accepted, unfortunately sometimes it is not, the outcome of the review will not change what has happened to the patient though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭ foxsake


    many in ICU (as with hospital cases in general) aren't there cos of covid. How you count it depends on your definition of what is the reason you are there.

    but a fair point.

    The daily mail reported 2/3rd of UK covid hospital cases were admitted for a non covid reason .

    Our official stats were less but I can't get clarity on how that was measured - i've read 2 conflicting statements on that



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Immuno suppressed are also amongst those at risk of severe illness from Covid, and given priority for vaccination. The patients you have listed as “unable to take the jab” are actually those most strongly advised to take it. People who had a **** reaction to the first, are NOT told to not have the second, we are all aware of people who felt ill after the first, second or third jab. Where are you getting that from?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭ Markus Antonius


    Any statistics that would make anyone question the level of lockdown are always given in the most off-the-cuff ways. Paul Reid gave a figure of 30% in hospital last week were not admitted for Covid but who subsequently caught it. He said most of them were asymptomatic.


    Edit: Here's a source: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40784646.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,582 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    I never said that COPD was why she was advised not to get Covid vaccinated. It's simply the only one of her health conditions that I do know the name of.

    I don't know why she was given that advice - and I'm not so fecking rude ghat I'm going to ask.

    But she is a clear example, that I can specifically name, of there being SOME people who get the advice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ daydorunrun


    Or you could have a staycation here to inject some cash into a country where a huge majority took up the vaccination of their own free will without the need for mandating?

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭ foxsake



    not all immuno suppressed are the clones of each other - I clearly said "some". there are some people who aren't able to take it, you can rant, rave and misrepresent what people say all you want - it doesn't change that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Actually most people suffering from the same illnesses most often share the same morbidity, though to differing extents. But that does not preclude them for getting a vaccine. The advice may differ, the science does not. You keep saying “able to take it”, though some might receive advice not to, and that advice might be found to be questionable, no illness has been found to expressly contraindicate the taking of a vaccine. If you have something to back up your assertion, post it. There are plenty of guidance on this from the HSE, CDC, NHS etc online.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,511 ✭✭✭✭ Boggles


    they tell us all these ICU cases are unvaxxinated inferring that they are the belligerent types who'd rather die than take the vaxx.

    but don't tell you that many of them are very ill and unable to take the jab.


    late stage cancer was one mentioned as a factor

    Would many people with "late stage cancer" be admitted to an ICU?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    I assume the stats are about people in ICU with COVID as the primary reason for being there. Hospitalized due to Covid. Otherwise the stats would be meaningless.

    Attacked by shark, also has Asymptomatic COVID wouldn't make a lot of sense.

    I've more faith in those collecting the stats than those posting about anecdotal stories about someone's brothers, girlfriend, heard in a bar about a woman's friends doctor who can't take a vaccine weird to some rare condition called something or other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Unlikely, they are more likely to receive care in a Hospice.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    Very hard to misrepresent people who talk a lot but say nothing. There is no factual information in many of these posts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭ joeyboy11


    Lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭ PommieBast


    Anything wrong with that? I am unsure what you actually disagree with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭ MilkyToast


    The concern is not non-existent blood vessels in the deltoid, but (rare) accidental injection by inexperienced/weary/incompetent injectors into blood vessels that run through the subcutaneous tissue between the deltoid and the dermis.

    There have been a couple of small scale studies in animals that have shown that injection of vaccines into the blood vessels can cause clotting, but more study would need to be done. Now that Denmark and a few other countries have advised that their vaccinators aspirate the needle before plunging, I guess there will (eventually) be data to compare.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭ Hey boy


    So is this thread closed now? Thankfully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,441 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd


    doesnt seem to be, but it may as well have been closed ages ago as there has barely been any posting on topic the whole way through.

    FFS, theres barely even mention of vaccination let alone manditory/ compulsorary vaccination.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭ patnor1011


    Oh, so you do have an agenda. How does that chasing of clients worked out for you so far?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭ Dav010




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