Any thoughts on this given the large uptake of vaccination for Covid in Ireland?
Slow clap...
The “bulk” of people in intensive care with Covid-19 are carrying the Delta variant of the virus, the Taoiseach has said
Omicron is preferentially infecting vaccinated people. The case rate amongst those with 2 jabs is much higher than unvaccinated. This is being shown in the data from several countries. Hospitalisations in that cohort is also increasing. Booster effects don't last very long, not even a fourth has much effect., as Israel have discovered. Seems like mandatory jabs would have the opposite effect and be a great way to prolong the pandemic, with the added bonus of civil unrest. I dont know why any country is going down this route. It's bizarre
Indeed, that recent survey suggested that 30% of folk getting more intense treatment, actually there for Covid, are unvaccinated.
Still disproportionate, but most of the actual caseload is coming from the vaccinated population. And the proportion of folk in hospital, getting less intense treatment, doesn't look to be that disproportionate - 92% are vaccinated vs 93% in the general population.
"The majority of infected patients - 71% - were not on oxygen therapy, representing a significantly less severe form of disease than seen during previous waves.
However, the review notes a "significant over-representation" of unvaccinated people being treated for severe Covid-19.
Just 8% of 322 admitted patients not requiring oxygen were unvaccinated, while vaccinated people made up the other 92%.
Thirty two percent of 130 admitted patients who did require oxygen therapy were unvaccinated."
“Or”
You have yet to tell us how obesity is transmitted.
Again, is the issue transmission as no real difference (aside from a few weeks immediately after booster according to astrofool)? Or, is it hospital beds because if it is you need to apply the same rationale to obese folk etc.
This has been debated previously.
Probably. But thats a lot of coincidences for "distinct" and relatively small group of people.
Suspect you might find that the 51% includes the partially vaccinated (1, 2 but no booster), and those whose status is unknown at the time the statistic was measured.
And its possible that many of them are in ICU for illness other than Covid, too.
Maybe give the unvaccinated an option of being voluntary injected with Covid, would certainly expedite things.
These private "pox parties" seem to be hit and miss.
51 per cent of those in hospital are not vaccinated, as are 60 per cent of those in ICU.
Considering only about 7% are unvaccinated.
I suppose the simplest way of explaining this is:
Ask yourself why existing cafes and cinemas don’t simply declare they are open to unvaccinated people only. The answer to that should tell you why you can’t set up new cafes/cinemas, and designate them for the unvaccinated. Then ask yourself if the rules apply only to those premises which make a profit.
I don't think so. There would need to be private non-profit clubs is all.
Are you saying it's illegal for unvaccinated people to congregate in private?
Do you want each unvaccinated person placed in a permanent lockdown?
In my opinion, your point of view is starting to get very weird.
I think the optics of mandatory vaccination aren’t good. You get the image of « vaccination camps » and ridiculous comparisons with WW2 Germany.
The current policy of extra restrictions on the unvaccinated - restaurants, pubs and other leisure venues - plus how difficult it is for them to travel, is the right path. If we need to increase vaccine / booster participation we can just turn up the heat : Covid Pass to turn up at work, limit travel distance from home, or - as is being proposed in Montreal - a tax on the unvaccinated. Most of the unvaccinated will throw in the towel at some point.
The « mandatory vaccination » thing sounds draconian, plays into the unvaccinated’s hands (with restrictions we can always say « You’re free to do whatever you choose, you just have to accept the consequences. ») and ultimately the same result - if not better - can be achieved through restrictions.
I think most of the population are pissed off with restrictions based on hospitalisations. So annoyance with the unvaccinated is understandable. Only the unvaxed perceive that as hate.
CQD, what’s with the quote under your posts? It does make some of your posts seem to have more depth, but mostly it just makes them longer. At least change it up with new quotes if you are able.
Indeed..where did the empathy go?..
It was weaponised..and they were taught to hate..
Would that be the same as the private pubs built to exclusively sell alcohol to under 18s and private shops that only sell heroin and cocaine to people who want to use them?
I'm hope you have more intelligence than your analogy suggests.
Where did all the empathy go?
A man with a Vaccine exemption due to poor health and people happy to exclude him from social life.
Kids under 16 don't need a cert or exemption to go anywhere. Is he of any more danger than them, of course not!
I think there's too many people looking at the rules but not the science or common sense.
At this stage being vaccinated doesn't protect you from getting covid or transmitting it, that's obvious from the numbers.
Time to abandon the certs.
While we don't have mandatory vaccination, the certs themselves are very extreme.
Starting with the lockdowns from Sep 2020 to June 2021*, and with certs running from June 2021 to the present that is effectively a 16 month ban on many forms of trade for conscientious objectors to vaccination - and no talk of ending certs yet.
Will we go 24 months, 36 months and on and on?
* With a three-week break in Dec 2020.
If it's going to be permanent maybe unvaccinated people should build their own private cinema clubs, their own private cafes etc.
We can have two societies running in tandem in the same physical space. Bizarre but that's apparently what people want..?
“At risk”. Seriously?
no difference with covid certs. PROOF that you are responsible in safeguarding your health and therefore the health of others who you wish to be around..
Except they are not proof of any such thing, you could be infected. Omicron put an end to that claim! All they do is keep the unvaccinated out of places on the grounds that they might be infected.
Haha Really ? I suppose people advocating that we as a society and people don't go around assaulting people, don’t break red traffic lights, don’t speed on the road or potentially jeprodisring peoples health in those and other manners are ‘communists’ right ? :)
and for individuals getting their knickers in a knot being asked for a cert…or just getting the vaccine….
you’ll be flying to Paris and you’ll be asked for ID and boarding pass.
you’ll be trying to access the gym and you’ll need to swipe your picture ID.
collect a social welfare payment the same…
membership of certain clubs / facilities…. ID…. PROOF that you are eligible to be admitted.
Lots of stuff in life is mandatory and expected and there is legislation to enable it…and prevents ‘non team players’ from putting others at risk.
So what's the problem here then.
The way people are going on as if the unvaccinated are the unclean.
Vaccinated or unvaccinated transmit this disease. Especially the omicron variant.
I’m not forcing them to go to events where proof of vaccination is required. I am not aware that the aim of vaccination is to ensure there is no transmission.
Your not against it if your forcing people to produce covid certs for entrance to any event or public setting.
If ya want to be sure of no transmission at all in these areas an anti gen test at the door is the only way. Even at that you couldn't be sure. And everyone is not going to do that all the time.
Does the thread exist?
Mandatory vaccination does not exist now, and according to the Government, is not even being considered.
This is a thread about mandatory vaccination. One poster made the point about the emergency being over. Hopefully you see the link now.
“A liberal society should be extremely reluctant to introduce mandatory anything and extremely quick to remove such when an emergency ends.” Me. 😜
Carrying a Covid cert is not compulsory in Ireland.
“Compulsory identity cards had been re-introduced in World War II under the National Registration Act 1939.[2] After the war, in 1945, the Attlee Ministry chose to continue them.
On 7 December 1950, Willcock was stopped for speeding on Ballard's Lane, North Finchley, London. Police Constable Harold Muckle asked him to produce his card. Willcock refused, reportedly saying "I am a Liberal, and I am against this sort of thing". Muckle gave Willcock a form to produce his card at any police station within two days, to which Willcock replied "I will not produce it at any police station and I will not accept the form".[3] He then threw the form on the ground. Willcock failed to produce the form within this time, and was prosecuted under the Act.[1]”
wikipedia but available from numerous sources.
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