I had an interview the other day and the recruiter mentioned that it would be a requirement to be vaccinated in order to enter the Dublin office unless you couldn't due to medical or religious reasons. Is this legal or a bit of a grey area?
There is no mandatory vaccinations for employees in Ireland.
Employers have a big headache now with employees coming back unvaccinated. I'd imagine they would not hire someone who indicates they are not getting vaccinated. Of course they won't say that but that's what they will do.
Hiring people here and if they're vaccinated or vasectomised doesn't matter a jot to me so long as they can do a good job .
Would be nice though
If they said that travel to the US and head office were required would that get around any Irish regulations?
I would suggest that they are acting unlawfully. They should receive a strong rebuke from legal people to prevent the commission of a crime by them.
@Risteard81 wrote:
I would suggest that they are acting unlawfully.
On what basis?
OP, to answer the question the short answer as to whether they can do this is "probably". You phrase it very specifically that, "To enter the Dublin office" requires vaccination.
If it is a remote job where working in the office is a possibility - but only for vaccinated people - then they absolutely can do this. If it's a case that it's a job on site and you must be vaccinated to get into the office, then it is a grey area.
Strictly speaking they may not be able to demand your vax status before giving you the job, but on your first day if you cannot get into the office because you cannot prove you're vaccinated, then they can just fire you and there's fvck all you can do about it.
As another person says above, they may also make travel to US an occasional condition of employment. As a result if you cannot go when they send you because you're unvaccinated, they can just fire you.
Functionally you can be let go for any reason in the first 12 months and there's nothing you can do about it.
'because you cannot prove you're vaccinated' you don't have to provide such personal medical details to your employer.
What next, they ask for your sperm count?
Are you going to give it to someone else on the office?
It's really a silly requirement: being vaccinated reduces your risk of getting badly ill.
But it doesn't stop you getting ill, of transmitting Covid-19. So social distancing and good ventilation, and masking if they cannot be achieved, are still required of everyone.
It doesn't stop you catching it, but it makes it less likely and makes you less likely to pass it on. Hardly a silly requirement.
Silly?
Would you be happy for your ventilated sick child (or significant person) in ICU to be treated by nurses and doctors who are not vaccinated?
Functionally, the operator of any private premises can ask you to pull down your pants and show them your arse if they want. You can refuse, and just not enter the premises.
Obviously when access to those premises is required by individuals for work or any other kind of necessary business, entry requirements have to be somewhat limited to things that are necessary to preserve the business. So a gym can refuse entry unless you have proof of membership. Because otherwise anyone can wander in and the business goes bust.
Likewise, in the interests of protecting the health of staff (a statutory obligation), a business may be entitled to insist that all people entering the premises - staff and visitors - are vaccinated and can show proof of such.
It's a grey area, but there are plenty of reasons why it may be legal, and arguments for it being illegal are relatively flimsy.
Of course, companies are going to come a cropper on this. As soon as a very important customer or board member gets a special dispensation to enter the building despite being unvaccinated, the company is going to be sued to high heaven.
Well they're not allowed even ask atm so there's no need to prove you're vaccinated or not. That might change of course, but atm, employers have no ability to ask or refuse you a job cos you're unvaccinated if they do find that out.
Yes: I'd expect the staff to have appropriate PPE.
This is incorrect, the DPC have stated that in certain circumstances, if it is a necessary safety measure, employers can request information on vaccination status. There is another thread about this already.
Seems like a few of you are confusing checking vaccination status on existing employees versus using it for vetting new employees. You need the cert to use the inside of a pub, you need the cert to fly to destinations and its probably likely you will get asked for the cert on applying for some jobs.
They can be smart when asking. Like is there anything that would impede you travelling abroad on short notice (being vaccinated, you can hop on a plane the same day, with testing it can take time and a positive test would impede you travelling).
If the rule about not having to self isolate if you're fully vaccinated and have no symptoms is still there, they can ask if there's anything preventing you entering the office if a close contact tests positive.
Not sure about the legality about asking the second one, but the first one is certainly a valid question. Obviously if the job doesn't entail internation travel, they may need to word it better. But company lawyers are crafty devils!
Having to arrange childcare would also impede travel at the drop of a hat - and is another factor that employers cannot use to discriminate.
It seems that you misunderstand what PPE is - the ‘E’ is for equipment. A vaccine is not equipment.
For clarity - do you think healthcare staff should be vaccinated if they are treating patients?
None of those circumstances apply for a tech job office though
Absolutely, because it's none of my business whether they've taken the needle(s) or not.
As this man 👇️ says, there is a difference between asking existing employees for this information, and asking new employees.
Nevertheless, if an employer now wants to make their office "vaccinated only" while giving existing unvaccinated employees the option to work from home, they can likely do that too.
If you're not going to get vaccinated, I am sure your moral compass will also allow you to lie about it.
There is absolutely no way you have children
Don't take any of the replies in this thread as the last word on anything, since several posters here specialise in pressurising people and their perspective is so tendentious as to be comical ('you must not have a moral compass').
Wasn't that happening for months before vaccines were available?
Brilliant logic. That made me laugh.
Another poster said:
Mrs OBumble11:57 am
I used a real life clinical example that I face daily to explore whether the poster truly believed it ‘silly’ and whether they thought vaccines were PPE.
Using the logic of your response, then this thread isn’t worth exploring as employees weren’t concerned with whether there employees were vaccinated “for months before vaccines were available?”
The fact is that vaccines are available, and that all healthcare staff must be vaccination and be asked if they are vaccinated if they are treating patients, and this puts employers in a difficult spot as doctors and nurses are employees like anyone else
Being vaccinated to protect others - which it does (and incorrectly stated by that poster) is not silly. It protects lives. Lots of ‘em.
They can ask and refuse your entry but they may be opening themselves to litigation, whether through employment law, discrimination law, or otherwise. You choosing not to enter the premises doesn't remove the legal obligations upon them
They may also insist but I believe the onus would be on them to prove that this is necessary for the running of the business, and I'm not sure they'd be able to do this seeing as business are following government guidelines in this regard and these guidelines do not mandate vaccination, and seeing as businesses have run successfully during the pandemic, before vaccination. It would presumably depend on the role also. I'm sure a company could finagle a role specification that necessitates vaccination though.
Why does that even matter..same chances of passing it on.
Worry about yourself not everyone else.
As healthcare professional, not only is it my job to worry about the care and safety of my patients but it’s also my legal requirement. I can be sacked, sued and struck off if I didn’t worry about them.
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