chef wrote: » How about yourself or one of his parents contact the club See if they have a 2nd team If the don't, maybe look to start one up at the club yourselves See if there are any other parents willing to help Remember the coaches are volunteers They put an awful lot of effort into training teams. It can be very difficult to please everyone. Your nephew may indeed prosper playing at a lower level, against lads of similar skill. See what you can do to help.
ec18 wrote: » You kinda did though, this thread is about him showing up and not being getting some game time. Clearly the coach determines who the best players are. They are the ones that are at training and picking the team. You've said yourself he's not the best player. That's fair about going across the water already. It doesn't mean that the rest of the team don't want to win games or leagues etc. Just because he didn't get to play doesn't mean the club has a win at all costs mentality? Maybe they have a the best trainers get played? Look if he's not the best football player he's in for weeks like this for a while until he finds a team/league level that he's competitive at. Anything else is just putting off the inevitable.
Firstly is there a common ethos that clubs at this level adopt with regards to "sport for all" and including all kids who attend training and want to play REGARDLESS of their level of ability or (probably answering the question myself here) is it - win at all cost and do so by playing your best players??? I was hoping that maybe the club may have formed a "B" team for boys of lesser ability so they could enjoy the beautiful game
Cuttlefish wrote: » OK so looking for some advice and guidance in relation to my nephew He is going into secondary school next Sept and he loves soccer, now he recently joined a well known soccer club in the city and has been going to training and went to his first match out in Tramore last week but was never used during the game (along with a few other boys from what I understand) - he was visibly upset as you can understand Now gonna say up front he is not a great footballer might even say below average nonetheless he loves soccer and would like him to be encouraged and included! Firstly is there a common ethos that clubs at this level adopt with regards to "sport for all" and including all kids who attend training and want to play REGARDLESS of their level of ability or (probably answering the question myself here) is it - win at all cost and do so by playing your best players??? I was hoping that maybe the club may have formed a "B" team for boys of lesser ability so they could enjoy the beautiful game Does anyone know of other clubs in the city that adopt a policy that all kids are involved and encouraged?? Would really love him to feel involved with a club and not feel left out He is training again this evening but I dont see him getting much involvement bar basic training I know some if not a lot of kids are better than him but as they say some of us open our presents later in life!! What suggestions does anyone have Thanks
thomasm wrote: » Is it not a case that Tramore were due to provide a third team for an additional game and this is where the problem stemmed from. The coaches can’t do anything about this. Apologies were made to parents and kids and the club are liasing with schoolboy chairperson to get more games and all of this was relayed to parents. I imagine it’s hard for a club when they have so many keen players to find games for them all. The alternative would be to limit the amount who can train which in my view would be worse. They also stated one selection criteria for games would be those who turned up for training the most.
Cuttlefish wrote: » To clarify my nephew went to a match last week hosted in Tramore, he doesn’t play for Tramore
thomasm wrote: » I understand but the team your nephew plays for were under the impression there would be three games and not two and brought players for three games hence the reason he did not get a game. This is second hand information but confident it’s true
ec18 wrote: » if he's not good enough he shouldn't play......how that's managed on a club level is open to question whether they should be a, b, c teams. But the idea that he should play just because he showed up isn't great. It's all well and good saying everyone has to play win or lose, what happens if he costs the team the game ? how would the rest of the team feel then? Unfortunately he's at that age where sport gets a bit more intense in terms of competition and some players trying to make a career of it or to win what they can locally.
spaceCreated wrote: » And its reasons like that Harry Kane got turfed out of Arsenal. There are plenty of kids at underage who look great because they're a bit quicker or bigger and plenty of kids who develop 2 left legs while they get used of their new height etc. Obviously there are better kids but theres reasons that we're not doing much at international level these days and it doesnt seem the approach of only getting the kids that get you results at u13 works out at anything but u13.
Iscreamkone wrote: » Why can’t u13 be just about u13. Why does it all have to be about developing the next Iniesta? Some lads greatest sporting achievement will be winning the u13 Cup… and good luck to them.
Iscreamkone wrote: » I’m involved with u7& u8s. We do everything to take the winning out of their games. Subbing the best players, making goals of uneven sizes, even joining in with the losing teams to help them. These kids still keep the score. They know if they’ve won or lost the game, even when we lie and say that that it was a draw again this week. U13 is a different ball game. This is proper competition. Lads are trying to get on representative teams and on to fai trials etc. B & C teams can muck about a bit, but the A teams should be trying to win. Trying to win is enjoyable. Winning for some teams may be getting to the second round or just keeping the score down. Roy Keane was playing u13 to win, not to look pretty. Winning is enjoyable. Winning football is good football. Not everyone can win trophies but trying your best to win must be encouraged. Winning is not a dirty word in spite of what some coaching manuals will tell you.
spaceCreated wrote: » Youre making different points in your posts, first it was about just winning for winnings sake, now its about getting the players on to trials etc. I think if its winning above all else you risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater, like Seamus Coleman being told he wasnt good enough to play for an FAI team a year before being signed for Everton is probably a sign of that. Like I do see your points but I think a focus on your own game first and winning second is a much better approach, gets the mind focused on improving yourself and not whether you won or lost. I think plenty of lads throw in the sport or dont put in the effort around that time because all they see is pressure and not much fun. Im sure everyone knows at least a few lads who decided to throw it in or just not bother much at that age. Roy Keane was a different thing altogether, that kind of stuff is formed earlier than u13 and u14. Sure encourage or hone the winning mentality, but trying to create that Roy Keane pressure cooker atmosphere at u13 is just a recipe for disaster if you ask me, these lads arent trying to win the premiership or champions league, theyre trying to show how good they are and win something in the process of doing it.
DeanAustin wrote: » Personally, I think that's disgraceful if he's made the effort to turn up. Some underage coaches think they're the next Mourinho.
Flow Motion wrote: » Some?? About 90% think there are the next tactical guru meshing Klopp-Guardiola-Tuchel together to take on the world of underage soccer. Its a shame cos at that age it should all be about enjoying the game. I know guys who coach/manage at that level and was astounded to be told that they take notes each session/game, attend seminars, read tactical books etc. Im not gonna name any names or clubs but if your familiar with the scene you know the people. Aside from these tactical guru's I find the manoeuvre of putting some kids on the first 11, regardless of talent, just cos their Daddy is some big shot around town disgusting. Only a few weeks back Mr X wrote a letter to a club in town after Jonny X wasnt getting his game, reminding said club of the amount of sponsorship he gave them the previous year! You'd have to pinch yourself to remind you its kids football in Waterford eh??
Motivator wrote: » You do realise the amount of time and effort that coaches put into training teams? I know a couple of coaches that put probably 10 or 12 hours a week into training one underage team. They get plenty of thanks off the parents, players and the club for it and I don’t think they’d be too bothered about someone like you slagging them off for it on an online forum!I coached an u-14 team to win a league and cup double a few years ago. I had coached them from u-12 and it took two years for them to get to a position where we could win something. Did I take notes? Absolutely I did. Did I put a lot of effort into the coaching sessions each week? Absolutely I did. It was like a second job for me and I loved every minute of it. Some of the lads I had on the team will go on to play soccer at a high level locally, Premier football is the main aim for some of them and good luck to them. One lad is very bright and a very talented player and he wanted to go to America on a scholarship. That was his aim when he was 13. Commitment from players and coaches is what wins trophies and medals but it also encourages people to work harder. I’d love to hear in a few years time that the player has gone to America on a scholarship and I’d like to think the guidance he got from me at a very formative age helped him to get there in even a small way. People who dedicate time and effort aren’t asking for recognition for what they’re doing, but they certainly shouldn’t be getting criticised for it.
Flow Motion wrote: » Wasn't slagging anyone off just stating facts. Like many people Ive stood on the sidelines and observed the local guru coaches. And dont tell me certain young fellas dont get picked cos of cronyism. Money and status talks. Its not all about talent. Who you know also matters esp in a small place like Waterford. Your post just proved the case I laid out in my initial post. Lots of "I's" in your post btw.
Motivator wrote: » Lots of “I’s” in my post because I was talking about myself. The only thing this thread has shown is that there are an awful lot of bitter people who’s kids are sitting on their arses every Saturday morning or who were in the same position themselves when they were younger. Moaning about the set up of a current club does nothing, either put the child in a weaker team or a different club or encourage them to work harder at their game. Cronyism doesn’t win teams matches so that’s nonsense talk. In my experience for competitive matches, players are picked on ability and not who their dad is. If a player is crap, no matter what age he is, he’s not going to play. Expecting a coach to play a young lad that is useless isn’t doing anyone any favours.
Motivator wrote: » There’s a reason there are competitive games from u11 upwards. There are leagues and cups there to be won, all the years up to the first competitive game for a young player are about enjoyment and learning the game. Once the first competitive game kicks off then it’s a win mentality that the young lads are taught. And rightly so, coaching kids at 11, 12 or 13 and telling them that winning isn’t the main aim is just not something that happens. Yeah, kids are encouraged to go and enjoy themselves but they’re expected to win.
Flow Motion wrote: » Just to clarify things I'm not bitter at all. I just put forward a few points that I happened to notice whilst standing on the sidelines. And your use of the words crap and useless about a young fella at a club is less than inspiring. Is essence you have proved my points by the tone of your replies. Then again your username {Motivator} tells me everything I need to know about your attitude : only winners need apply for my team. Just remember children are not machines and some need to be nurtured and treated with kid gloves in order for them to develop. TBH I would rather a child be allowed play ball with a crap, useless team filled with weaker kids where there all could at least play and enjoy the game.
Motivator wrote: » I fully agree kids need to be nurtured, like I said it took two years of development for my lads to learn how to be competitive. I started coaching them when they were u12 so I had lads that were 10 and 11 and I stopped coaching that group when they came out of u14. I had some of the younger lads in the group when they stayed u14. When we won something the parents especially said they were delighted they had something to show for all the driving to and from training and matches over the previous couple of years. There’s pride in winning something and it gives young lads a great sense of achievement and makes them feel a bit special. They go into school after playing against friends or classmates and they talk about the games. Sport matters to people and so does winning. Anything before u11 competitive games kick in, absolutely the games should be about fun and inclusion and they are. But it’s important to know that those years are what gives coaches and clubs the base to work from when things get serious. Kids are competitive and they want to win, anyone says any different is talking nonsense. Yeah there needs to be enjoyment in playing but tell me where the enjoyment is in getting beaten every week? Losing drains every bit of fun out of a game, a team and a player and a team or club that is happy to lose games is a team or a club that eventually won’t have any players. If a child is unhappy about not playing at u12 or u13 then I think they need to go and play for a weaker team immediately.
Motivator wrote: » Anything before u11 competitive games kick in, absolutely the games should be about fun and inclusion and they are.
greenspurs wrote: » Any update on the lad ?
ec18 wrote: » Called up by Stephen Kenny
