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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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Away With The Fairies

Does anyone know if we can choose which vaccine to get?

Economics101

The latest numbers from the Covid data hub show 242,000 first doses given to Cohort 2, described as "frontline healthcare workers". This is about twice the total number employed by the HSE. If you add in everyone employed in private sector healthcare (hospitals, nursing homes pharmacies, dental practices, GP surgeries, etc) how close does this come to 242,000?

There will be loads of HSE admin staff who are nowhere near any frontline, but who may have access to vaccine not dictated by proper risk assessment. But they are not in the private sector, and therefore seem to be above political criticism.

Maybe the HSE has thousands more staff than we know about!

Wolf359f

maestroamado wrote: »

I am stating facts that HSE office staff are getting the vaccine which has being confirmed as not front line staff.
Paul Reid said it was "regrettable" today. These are facts.
Where do you see a complaint in this....

Paul Reid making out like it was a surprise to him.
We all questioned the figures vaccinated in Cohort 2 being so high for weeks now.
Plenty of anecdotal stories about WFH office workers getting vaccinated etc...
I'm sure he's heard similar stories weeks ago.
I myself assumed they just dropped the 'Frontline' part of the requirement to get the health service back working faster.

stephenjmcd

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Does anyone know if we can choose which vaccine to get?

No you can't

stephenjmcd

Wolf359f wrote: »

Paul Reid making out like it was a surprise to him.
We all questioned the figures vaccinated in Cohort 2 being so high for weeks now.
Plenty of anecdotal stories about WFH office workers getting vaccinated etc...
I'm sure he's heard similar stories weeks ago.
I myself assumed they just dropped the 'Frontline' part of the requirement to get the health service back working faster.

HSE staff have been getting vaccinated for weeks. Know of environmental health staff that got theirs 2 or 3 weeks ago now, why ? Because they visit multiple locations daily and are directly employed by the HSE, the portal was open to them all. They've just lumped everyone into the one group it's plainly obvious as you point out.

Personally I've no issue with anyone who's part of the health service being vaccinated. Sooner the better so that normal service can resume in hospitals, you don't get services without those behind the scenes

Van.Bosch

ACitizenErased wrote: »

If it means they can get back into the hospital and get the health system up and running again then yup. And it's not like they're getting it 'before' group 4, they're running concurrently.

Agreed - but if they can work from home without detracting from their role, that’s different.

Also, with a fixed supply, people are getting it ahead of group 4.

Away With The Fairies

stephenjmcd wrote: »

No you can't

Thanks for this. Would you know if we get much notice to get the vaccine? Would like to take a few days off and take things easy in case I get side effects.

Wolf359f

stephenjmcd wrote: »

HSE staff have been getting vaccinated for weeks. Know of environmental health staff that got theirs 2 or 3 weeks ago now, why ? Because they visit multiple locations daily. They've just lumped everyone into the one group it's plainly obvious as you point out.

Personally I've no issue with anyone who's part of the health service being vaccinated. Sooner the better so that normal service can resume in hospitals

I have no issues with all HSE staff being a priority getting vaccinated, even WFH if it means they can get back to the office faster. None what so ever.
I have an issue with Paul Reid all of a sudden realizing it and saying it was a mistake. There's no way he didn't know. Breaking up HCW's into sub groups would have been a near impossible feat and would have slowed down the rollout big time. He should at least have the conviction to see and agree with that.

Turtwig

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Honest question - do you think a HSE worker who 100% works from home should get the vaccine (cohort 2) ahead of someone in cohort 4 for example?

Ideally they shouldn't. Being pragmatic, yes they should. It would simply take too long to discern between the HSE employees that are wfh and those that will have be in environments prone to risk. Speed is more important than accuracy here. What you gain in accuracy you would lose in speed. This would actually delay the rollout to cohort 4 and lower priorities even more.

Aside: having all the HSE employees and their relevant contractors vaccinated means the health services capacity is better protected. I think in the ideal world cohort 4 would come first though as they're right now the biggest risk to health care capacity. This isn't an ideal world. Having all hse employees vaccinated and that resource replenished is still a very important thing. I think people need to ease off with their dismissals of admin staff being vaccinated.

Then again I really hate the sh1t show vaccines have become. I've had to tolerate folks speculating why such and such a one was called before X with condition Y. Rather than be happy for one cocooner I've seen people express begrudgery.
It really has bought out the worst in some people.

(nobody should have to disclose if they have a condition either yet that's what some people are being expected to do)

stephenjmcd

Wolf359f wrote: »

I have no issues with all HSE staff being a priority getting vaccinated, even WFH if it means they can get back to the office faster. None what so ever.
I have an issue with Paul Reid all of a sudden realizing it and saying it was a mistake. There's no way he didn't know. Breaking up HCW's into sub groups would have been a near impossible feat and would have slowed down the rollout big time. He should at least have the conviction to see and agree with that.

No time for Paul Reid to be honest, can't stand listening to him

Van.Bosch

Turtwig wrote: »

Ideally they shouldn't. Being pragmatic, yes they should. It would simply take too long to discern between the HSE employees that are wfh and those that will have be in environments prone to risk. Speed is more important than accuracy here. What you gain in accuracy you would lose in speed. This would actually delay the rollout to cohort 4 and lower priorities even more.

Aside: having all the HSE employees and their relevant contractors vaccinated means the health services capacity is better protected. I think in the ideal world cohort 4 would come first though as they're right now the biggest risk to health care capacity. This isn't an ideal world. Having all hse employees vaccinated and that resource replenished is still a very important thing. I think people need to ease off with their dismissals of admin staff being vaccinated.

Then again I really hate the sh1t show vaccines have become. I've had to tolerate folks speculating why such and such a one was called before X with condition Y. Rather than be happy for one cocooner I've seen people express begrudgery.
It really has bought out the worst in some people.

(nobody should have to disclose if they have a condition either yet that's what some people are being expected to do)

Yeah, I think if they had just said “ we are doing all healthcare workers and there is about 250,000 of them” it would have been better, instead it was “frontline” and others in a separate category which has now disappeared. People want transparency, that’s all.

I think the rollout has been good but this could have been communicated better.

Wolf359f

stephenjmcd wrote: »

No time for Paul Reid to be honest, can't stand listening to him

I don't dislike him. But I don't agree with his statement that it was all news to him.
Once person I have a lot of respect for is Siobhan Ni Bhriain, when asked a question she just answers it and doesn't waffle on. If its a simple yes or no question, she says yes or no!

Turtwig

Wolf359f wrote: »

I don't dislike him. But I don't agree with his statement that it was all news to him.
Once person I have a lot of respect for is Siobhan Ni Bhriain, when asked a question she just answers it and doesn't waffle on. If its a simple yes or no question, she says yes or no!

Have to agree. He'd have to be really incompetent in his job if this was completely news to him. That or at the very least be completely surrounded by incompetent subordinates.

Is there any chance his "news" remarks were relating to a specific case or instance that may actually have been news to him and we just misunderstood him as thinking he was referring to the whole group?

Wolf359f

Turtwig wrote: »

Have to agree. He'd have to be really incompetent in his job if this was completely news to him. That or at the very least be completely surrounded by incompetent subordinates.

Is there any chance his "news" remarks were relating to a specific case or instance that may actually have been news to him and we just misunderstood him as thinking he was referring to the whole group?

I don't think so, he seems to be referencing non patient facing roles.
I hope he's not implying caterers in hospitals shouldn't have been vaccinated among many others?

Russman

I think in this case he’s more seeing which way the wind is blowing and deflecting any perceived sense of outrage that’s out there.

JTMan

The UK are to give twice-weekly tests to everyone in England from Friday. The BBC reports here.

Non-essential retail, Gyms, pubs (outdoor), restaurants (outdoor) and more reopen on Monday 12 April and this measure is to support this.

Boris is going to announce details of the Covid passport for mass audience events today too.

Smart moves.

Kivaro

Astrazeneca skepticism is definitely having a negative impact on vaccination programs in countries like France. In Calais yesterday, a vaccination centre had to close early because 600 never showed up for their Astrazeneca injections. In another nearby city, 900 never showed up and in other northern French areas there are similar no-shows when Astrazeneca is the vaccine administered. Between efficacy issues and the blood clot issue, especially among younger women, this situation will affect public confidence in the vaccination program overall unless it is dealt with comprehensively.

Azatadine

Kivaro wrote: »

Between efficacy issues and the blood clot issue, especially among younger women, this situation will affect public confidence in the vaccination program

What 'efficacy issues'? No offence meant but posts like this (also mentioning 'blood clot issue') contribute to the problem of affecting people's confidence in the vaccine.

Probes

JTMan wrote: »

The UK are to give twice-weekly tests to everyone in England from Friday. The BBC reports here.

Non-essential retail, Gyms, pubs (outdoor), restaurants (outdoor) and more reopen on Monday 12 April and this measure is to support this.

Boris is going to announce details of the Covid passport for mass audience events today too.

Smart moves.

I’m not convinced by their testing, is this self administered? At the end of the day a lot of people will do it wrong, by mistake or deliberately.

Probes

Azatadine wrote: »

What 'efficacy issues'? No offence meant but posts like this (also mentioning 'blood clot issue') contribute to the problem of affecting people's confidence in the vaccine.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1377363376305664002?s=20

Kivaro

Azatadine wrote: »

What 'efficacy issues'? No offence meant but posts like this (also mentioning 'blood clot issue') contribute to the problem of affecting people's confidence in the vaccine.

U.S. health officials and the FDA have cast doubt on the Astrazeneca efficacy data from human trials of its Covid-19 vaccine, and "U.S. officials took the rare move of publicly questioning their accuracy" (From the Wall Street Journal). When Astrazeneca claimed that its vaccine was 79% effective in preventing symptomatic disease, the FDA reduced it down to 76%.

Probes

Kivaro wrote: »

U.S. health officials and the FDA have cast doubt on the Astrazeneca efficacy data from human trials of its Covid-19 vaccine, and "U.S. officials took the rare move of publicly questioning their accuracy" (From the Wall Street Journal). When Astrazeneca claimed that its vaccine was 79% effective in preventing symptomatic disease, the FDA reduced it down to 76%.

My feeling is that that isn’t really an issue. Both sides made a mistake by having a public confrontation. AZ pr is diabolical, why they released the interim results I don’t know.

maestroamado

I was told that all of the admin staff in the HSE have being vaccinated...

Danzy

maestroamado wrote: »

I was told that all of the admin staff in the HSE have being vaccinated...

I'd think so, all health workers are done or nearly done now.

Azatadine

This is an interesting read. Must send it to Staines, McConkey, Ryan and Killeen.

Racaniello: I am not worried at all that this virus is going to out-evolve vaccines. People have been looking at it the wrong way. People have been looking at antibodies. People say, “ah, the variants are less susceptible to antibodies. But, you know what? They are ignoring T cells. It turns out, none of the variants have changes that would impact the ability of the T cells to kill an infected cell.

https://www.thestreet.com/latest-news/there-are-no-covid-super-strains-yet-says-virologist-vincent-racaniello

stephenjmcd

Kivaro wrote: »

U.S. health officials and the FDA have cast doubt on the Astrazeneca efficacy data from human trials of its Covid-19 vaccine, and "U.S. officials took the rare move of publicly questioning their accuracy" (From the Wall Street Journal). When Astrazeneca claimed that its vaccine was 79% effective in preventing symptomatic disease, the FDA reduced it down to 76%.

They released interim results then final results. Things can change between the two even if it's only a matter of days between both.

Maybe AZ should have waited a few days until all the data was in, but I don't see the issue here, it's all been clarified.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00836-z

stephenjmcd

Probes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1377363376305664002?s=20

That's bringing in the South African study into that, the issues with that study have been discussed here over and over. Further study is needed, but the all important T cell reposne looks very good in trials

Paper and full thread,
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1370378272282980352?s=19

Micky 32

https://twitter.com/segal_eran/status/1378786655679692802?s=21

stephenjmcd

Micky 32 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/segal_eran/status/1378786655679692802?s=21

Excellent numbers.

Interesting to note this morning as well that Pfizer have suspended exports to Israel as they haven't yet paid for the last 2 million doses

dominatinMC

Azatadine wrote: »

This is an interesting read. Must send it to Staines, McConkey, Ryan and Killeen.

Racaniello: I am not worried at all that this virus is going to out-evolve vaccines. People have been looking at it the wrong way. People have been looking at antibodies. People say, “ah, the variants are less susceptible to antibodies. But, you know what? They are ignoring T cells. It turns out, none of the variants have changes that would impact the ability of the T cells to kill an infected cell.

https://www.thestreet.com/latest-news/there-are-no-covid-super-strains-yet-says-virologist-vincent-racaniello

Very interesting. A question from the uninitiated to some of the more informed posters on here, why then have all studies and reports related to vaccines focused so much on antibody response? T-cell response appears to be equally as important, but barely gets a mention - at least in the general reporting.