nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

Thread 1
Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

Threadbans carry over

Threadbanned users:
3xh
Dr.Frost
kingbhome
nannerbenahs
skooterblue2
Fodla
Caraibh
drunkmonkey
lawrencesummers
Howard Beale
Thornysheep
Snowcat

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

[Deleted User]

Stark wrote: »

Interesting hypothesis. If it's due to the second dose, it might explain why the UK aren't seeing the same issues.

Germany won't have given any second doses of AZ yet, 12 week dosing gap same as the UK.

Stark

lucernarian wrote: »

One thing to note is that unlike sputnik and J&J, the AZ/Chadox vaccine relies on injection of the exact same adenovirus vector, twice. There's no conclusion to be made on that fact alone, but it's worth pointing out before saying that the clotting issues are likely to arise in the other adenovirus-vector vaccines. The strain of adenovirus might be relevant also, the 3 vaccines differ in that regard.

Interesting hypothesis. If it's due to the second dose, it might explain why the UK aren't seeing the same issues.

Qiaonasen

I dunno. India for sure probably has bad reporting. The UK should be better but there is a lot of Nationalism on going. They could be hiding it?

[Deleted User]

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

From RTE.ie

"...Germany's vaccine regulator reports 31 cases of blood disorder after AstraZeneca shot

Germany's vaccine regulators said it has recorded 31 cases of a rare blood clot in the brain, nine of which resulted in deaths, after people received the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine.

The Paul Ehrlich Institute (PEI) said it has now registered 31 cases of clots in the cerebral veins - known as sinus veinthrombosis, or CSVT - and that in 19 of these there was a deficiency of blood platelets or thrombocytepenia.

In nine cases, the affected people died. With the exception of two cases, all reports concerned women between the ages of 20 and 63. The two men were 36 and 57 years old....".

That doesn't seem great. I know Covid kills younger people too, and I haven't done the maths, but 9 deaths of people aged 20 to 63 sounds problematic?

It's strange the UK haven't recorded similar numbers. Unless they've been keeping it quiet. India have administered somewhere in the region of 30m doses too and don't seem to be recording this many clotting events (or they haven't been reported).

Godot.

If we suspend again it's a joke. The EMA will say like last time crack on while an investigation is underway and so we should.

Rebelbrowser

From RTE.ie

"...Germany's vaccine regulator reports 31 cases of blood disorder after AstraZeneca shot

Germany's vaccine regulators said it has recorded 31 cases of a rare blood clot in the brain, nine of which resulted in deaths, after people received the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine.

The Paul Ehrlich Institute (PEI) said it has now registered 31 cases of clots in the cerebral veins - known as sinus veinthrombosis, or CSVT - and that in 19 of these there was a deficiency of blood platelets or thrombocytepenia.

In nine cases, the affected people died. With the exception of two cases, all reports concerned women between the ages of 20 and 63. The two men were 36 and 57 years old....".

That doesn't seem great. I know Covid kills younger people too, and I haven't done the maths, but 9 deaths of people aged 20 to 63 sounds problematic?

lucernarian

Stark wrote: »

That's really worrying for our vaccination rollout program. Wonder are we better to switch our over-70s over to AstraZeneca and start giving Pfizer/Moderna to young people instead. If we get all our over-70s done and it turns out we can't use any more AstraZeneca, we're screwed.

Interestingly, Sputnik V and Johnson & Johnson are both very similar (viral vector vaccines). I imagine you'd expect to see similar issues there.

One thing to note is that unlike sputnik and J&J, the AZ/Chadox vaccine relies on injection of the exact same adenovirus vector, twice. There's no conclusion to be made on that fact alone, but it's worth pointing out before saying that the clotting issues are likely to arise in the other adenovirus-vector vaccines. The strain of adenovirus might be relevant also, the 3 vaccines differ in that regard.

Qiaonasen

Will be interesting to see how it develops. I will take AZ if they don't want it.

Qiaonasen

Nothing to do with Canada I don't think. They just have found a high occurence of blood clotting.

Stark

That's really worrying for our vaccination rollout program. Wonder are we better to switch our over-70s over to AstraZeneca and start giving Pfizer/Moderna to young people instead. If we get all our over-70s done and it turns out we can't use any more AstraZeneca, we're screwed.

Interestingly, Sputnik V and Johnson & Johnson are both very similar (viral vector vaccines). I imagine you'd expect to see similar issues there.

lucernarian

Qiaonasen wrote: »

Astra Zeneca in trouble again in Germany. Blood Clots.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-astrazeneca-berlin/berlin-state-hospitals-halt-astrazeneca-vaccinations-of-women-under-55-idUSKBN2BM13E?il=0&utm_source=reddit.com

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSS8N2KO06C?utm_source=reddit.com

Is this connected to the recent Canadian decision? This decision comes from the home of the world's most advanced hospital and international centre of excellence (the charité) and I hope that the suspension is brief and there isn't an increased risk after further review.

Qiaonasen

Astra Zeneca in trouble again in Germany. Blood Clots.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-astrazeneca-berlin/berlin-state-hospitals-halt-astrazeneca-vaccinations-of-women-under-55-idUSKBN2BM13E?il=0&utm_source=reddit.com

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSS8N2KO06C?utm_source=reddit.com

ninebeanrows

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

There was 17,263 vaccines in Northern Ireland yesterday. 51% of the adult population have now received their first dose, 9.1% have received their second dose.

Coleraine will be bustling in a few weeks Owen!

lucernarian

Corholio wrote: »

Someone you mentioned, Luke O'Neill follows that account and retweets from it too. Quite a bit of info that 'experts' talk about come from secondary accounts like this that have much deeper involvement in inner workings than the likes of O'Neill, who I don't dislike but has the same access to these studies as you or I because they get posted on twitter etc.

I don't really get the relevance behind LON retweeting the "pasta person", like Mac and Chise posts some very important and useful information (like that recent example) and they are clearly followed by a lot of people - if Luke O'Neill approves of their style, that doesn't mean I may as well follow Mac on twitter, unless that's the only thing Luke O'Neill talks about. Which in my experience, it's definitely not the case.

Also as Luke O'Neill is internationally prominent in the field of immunology, there would be a lot of info I wouldn't directly have access to (outside of my connections in academia) as there are webinars and remote conferences taking place all the time. Maybe the secondary account thing acts as a kind of protected disclosure, or a way to stop the employer from gagging important employees? Like someone else pointed out that they tweeted the exact same info as the CDC released... But then why share the Mac perspective rather than the CDC's own one? And if they are offering novel content, how can I be sure that they are posting facts and evidence? Twitter is full of people claiming to be an expert in something and I'm more inclined to be skeptical there.

Nqp15hhu

There was 17,263 vaccines in Northern Ireland yesterday. 51% of the adult population have now received their first dose, 9.1% have received their second dose.

Turtwig

lucernarian wrote: »

Honestly I haven't seen LON retweet them, I actually followed Luke partly for that reason. And really that's just one expert of many who have provided informative and educational posts on twitter.

I still think that mac and chise account posts sensational tidbits and black-and-white conclusions on complicated topics, and they're gonna emphasise their point in CAPITAL LETTERS. To each, their own of course. I just don't get the appeal of it compared to so many other primary sources of info. Like, why the secrecy about who their employer is/isn't, or why post information about Moderna when they have their own Twitter page?

Those are very fair points. I agree the certainty of conviction in some tweets is very ott.

I must also admit having spent the last ten minutes googling. I cannot find a connection between moderna and Chise. Does anyone have a source where they stated they worked with Moderna?

lucernarian

lbj666 wrote: »

All his/her source material has been from credible sources, put in more a plain version of english but not entirely. If there's a similar thread that gathers this information and explains as such but with an appropriate dull looking profile please show us.

I dont know if you are being sarcastic of about Luke o'Neill because expertise aside, the way he posts on twitter is definitely toward the realm of pop science more so that Mac N'Chise.

I wasn't, considering I gave some context I don't see how you'd think I was being sarcastic. Folks like Luke O'Neill and Brian Cox are able to disseminate scientific info to a wide audience, and at least with them I can link their tweets to the scientist and academic behind it. It's a lot more credible IMHO.

Maybe it is just a case of personal preference

I don't take such content seriously when they emphasise their point through the infallible power of caps lock. Most people talking about this have seen lots of their tweets already, and I've seen a lot through this thread and Twitter directly. It's been a running theme for me, I wonder if anyone else finds their style problematic.

Corholio

lucernarian wrote: »

I've made the point about that account a couple of times before, that it presents information in a sensational and OTT way. I first came across the account about 3 months ago or thereabouts.

Someone you mentioned, Luke O'Neill follows that account and retweets from it too. Quite a bit of info that 'experts' talk about come from secondary accounts like this that have much deeper involvement in inner workings than the likes of O'Neill, who I don't dislike but has the same access to these studies as you or I because they get posted on twitter etc.

lucernarian

Turtwig wrote: »

Luke O Neill basically parrots that account. Numerous of his tweets are retweets from it.
The only issue with Mac is a potential conflict of interest because they work for Moderna.

Honestly I haven't seen LON retweet them, I actually followed Luke partly for that reason. And really that's just one expert of many who have provided informative and educational posts on twitter.

I still think that mac and chise account posts sensational tidbits and black-and-white conclusions on complicated topics, and they're gonna emphasise their point in CAPITAL LETTERS. To each, their own of course. I just don't get the appeal of it compared to so many other primary sources of info. Like, why the secrecy about who their employer is/isn't, or why post information about Moderna when they have their own Twitter page?

lucernarian

Corholio wrote: »

Because you don't know the history of their posting obviously, just one look at their name and decided.

I've made the point about that account a couple of times before, that it presents information in a sensational and OTT way. I first came across the account about 3 months ago or thereabouts.

Turtwig

lucernarian wrote: »

Why would I pay attention to a Twitter account named after junk food, as opposed to the CDC or named experts in the field like Luke O'Neill? And someone typing in all caps to make a point doesn't sound like a credible source of information to me.

No disrespect to you btw, I just don't see why an anonymous Twitter account would be treated as a source of info on anything, especially when they retweet information from actual credible/scientific sources that could equally be posted here.

Luke O Neill basically parrots that account. Numerous of his tweets are retweets from it.
The only issue with Chise is a potential conflict of interest because they work for Moderna.

lbj666

lucernarian wrote: »

Why would I pay attention to a Twitter account named after junk food, as opposed to the CDC or named experts in the field like Luke O'Neill? And someone typing in all caps to make a point doesn't sound like a credible source of information to me.

No disrespect to you btw, I just don't see why an anonymous Twitter account would be treated as a source of info on anything, especially when they retweet information from actual credible/scientific sources that could equally be posted here.

All his/her source material has been from credible sources, put in more a plain version of english but not entirely. If there's a similar thread that gathers this information and explains as such but with an appropriate dull looking profile please show us.

I dont know if you are being sarcastic of about Luke o'Neill because expertise aside, the way he posts on twitter is definitely toward the realm of pop science more so that Mac N'Chise.

Van.Bosch

Corholio wrote: »

Because you don't know the history of their posting obviously, just one look at their name and decided.

Didn’t someone say previously that account was like one of the top scientists at Moderna?

Corholio

lucernarian wrote: »

Why would I pay attention to a Twitter account named after junk food, as opposed to the CDC or named experts in the field like Luke O'Neill? And someone typing in all caps to make a point doesn't sound like a credible source of information to me.

No disrespect to you btw, I just don't see why an anonymous Twitter account would be treated as a source of info on anything, especially when they retweet information from actual credible/scientific sources that could equally be posted here.

Because you don't know the history of their posting obviously, just one look at their name and decided.

Le Bruise

funnydoggy wrote: »

I just found the pasta dish remark funny :pac:

....and the audacity to call it junk food!!:)

Geuze

Carefree88 wrote: »

It's very simple to prove

I don't know why no country has done it yet, UK talked about it but no news lately.

A challenge trial

Get 1000 healthy young people 18-25, put them in a medical compound, pay them well €10,000 each and put Covid in the air and we will know for 100% how it infects, do vaccines stop transmission, do they stop symptoms

At a cost of 10 million its peanuts

Why no country has done it I don't know, nothing unethical about it, volunteers no the risk.

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/07/oxfords-jenner-institute-to-prepare-for-challenge-trials-for-covid-19.html

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/09/challenge-trials-in-britain.html

It appears to be underway:

https://hvivo.com/the-human-challenge-programme/

funnydoggy

I just found the pasta dish remark funny :pac:

Le Bruise

stephenjmcd wrote: »

From an account that has been accurate throughout, I believe the person actually works for Moderna. But sure each to their own.

Love that twitter account!

They know exactly what they're talking about (being a molecular biologist with a history of research in emerging pathogens) and always link the research....yet people don't take them seriously because of their name!?!

lucernarian

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Clickbait ?? It's literally the same study....
The full thread contains a link to CDC
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1376558522641620994?s=20

From an account that has been accurate throughout, I believe the person actually works for Moderna. But sure each to their own.

Why would I pay attention to a Twitter account named after junk food, as opposed to the CDC or named experts in the field like Luke O'Neill? And someone typing in all caps to make a point doesn't sound like a credible source of information to me.

No disrespect to you btw, I just don't see why an anonymous Twitter account would be treated as a source of info on anything, especially when they retweet information from actual credible/scientific sources that could equally be posted here.

stephenjmcd

lucernarian wrote: »

Thank you for sharing some serious and high quality information, not some clickbait typing in capitals from a Twitter account named after a pasta dish.

Clickbait ?? It's literally the same study....
The full thread contains a link to CDC
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1376558522641620994?s=20

From an account that has been accurate throughout, I believe the person actually works for Moderna. But sure each to their own.