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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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PCeeeee

namloc1980 wrote: »

Tone deaf from Ursula essentially boasting about how much vaccine has been sent out of the EU over the last 3 months, 77m doses, while the situation in the EU is a farce.

.

While I'm not much of an UVDL fan I'm not sure about tone deaf. I think that is aimed squarely those not sharing this far.

[Deleted User]

namloc1980 wrote: »

Tone deaf from Ursula essentially boasting about how much vaccine has been sent out of the EU over the last 3 months, 77m doses, while the situation in the EU is a farce.

.

Can't believe vaccines went to China of all places.

namloc1980

Tone deaf from Ursula essentially boasting about how much vaccine has been sent out of the EU over the last 3 months, 77m doses, while the situation in the EU is a farce.

.

marno21

https://twitter.com/naomiohreally/status/1375105543493275653?s=21

Enough to FULLY vaccinate 78% of Irish adults by end Q2. This is also assuming AstraZeneca continue to remind people of the words pissup and brewery.

Israel have 54% done, open now with a month (caveat: vaccine passports) and R is now down to 0.55

We will be in parallel universe territory come June.

astrofool

namloc1980 wrote: »

Except they aren't providing live data. The dashboard itself is 2-3 days behind (currently showing Monday) so the excuses for it still not being accurate after that time are nonsense. Pure drivel.

These 2 things can be true:
The data when uploaded and first made available isn't fully verified (2-3 days after the day)
The fully verified data will only be available a few more days after that

It is known the dashboard has raw unverified data on it, thus any conclusions made from it immediately may not be accurate.

To fix it would mean the HSE hiring or redistributing people to make the data collection process more seamless and verified.

Ultimately the data doesn't need to be accurate until 7 days later (and still some GP's may not have made submissions by then) as they do the planning on deliveries on a weekly basis.

Either way getting angry at data that we know will change is not productive, you can get angry at the speed of collecting the data to your hearts content.

Wolf359f

irishlad. wrote: »

Numbers changed around in a few cohorts

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cUZy6AMCwuA2zhtRuKK7cqMVgmhdDsGsZrFWJTkw9DY/edit#gid=1219026690

It's gotta be a mess, could have a HCW with underlying conditions working in a nursing home. That 1 person belongs to cohort, 1,2 & 4.
Lots of overlapping for sure.

irishlad.

Numbers changed around in a few cohorts

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cUZy6AMCwuA2zhtRuKK7cqMVgmhdDsGsZrFWJTkw9DY/edit#gid=1219026690

namloc1980

astrofool wrote: »

HSE isn't showing up to date data because it first has to validate the data

People want the data faster to try and keep the rage away

HSE makes dashboard available with live data with the caveat that each days data will take a few days to become accurate, and they make decisions only on the verified data, which will be published when verified

People take a look at live dashboard data and see inaccurate data

The rage starts again

I mean, they were asked to provide the raw data, did so and put the caveats on the data in place, and people then complain that they provided the raw data as it comes in.

People are the worst.

Except they aren't providing live data. The dashboard itself is 2-3 days behind (currently showing Monday) so the excuses for it still not being accurate after that time are nonsense. Pure drivel.

astrofool

GT89 wrote: »

Goalposts keep changing. First it was we must impose restrictions until we flatten the curve once the curve was flattened that became until there is a vaccine for covid, once the vaccine was approved that became until the vulnerable got the vaccine now most of the vulnerable have had their vaccine and the government are still not happy now that's become until everyone gets the vaccine. When everyone in Ireland/Europe gets the vaccine it will become until the world's entire population is vaccinated.

The data keeps changing, governments of the world react to the changing data, at first it was hoped that getting the vulnerable vaccinated would also coincide with a drop in the rate of transmission and thus reduce hospital admissions, but as we've seen, infection rates are remaining steady at around ~500 per day, and hospital admission rates are also steady for the now younger cohort (who believed they aren't effected by the virus). The upside is the number of deaths in the vulnerable has been steadily declining as the vaccines take full effect there, and the resources of the health system have improved since they stopped losing as many people to getting sick.

As more people get vaccinated, the more things will open up. Proof of that is coming in with Israel, the UK shouldn't be far behind, then we'll be the same, then the rest of the world will follow over 18 months.

I hate to break it to you, but world travel will be curtailed until the world is vaccinated.

cameramonkey

astrofool wrote: »

HSE isn't showing up to date data because it first has to validate the data

People want the data faster to try and keep the rage away

HSE makes dashboard available with live data with the caveat that each days data will take a few days to become accurate, and they make decisions only on the verified data, which will be published when verified

People take a look at live dashboard data and see inaccurate data

The rage starts again

I mean, they were asked to provide the raw data, did so and put the caveats on the data in place, and people then complain that they provided the raw data as it comes in.

People are the worst.

They are a bit slow, they must be getting vaccination numbers by stage coach.
I mean how many days does it take to collate information and publish it? do they have email and computers or are they using the backs of envelopes and carrier pigeons?

GT89

Goalposts keep changing. First it was we must impose restrictions until we flatten the curve once the curve was flattened that became until there is a vaccine for covid, once the vaccine was approved that became until the vulnerable got the vaccine now most of the vulnerable have had their vaccine and the government are still not happy now that's become until everyone gets the vaccine. When everyone in Ireland/Europe gets the vaccine it will become until the world's entire population is vaccinated.

astrofool

Amirani wrote: »

If your vaccination system (Salesforce) has 6 second doses loaded for Sunday, then you can put whatever data integrity and accuracy steps you want in at dashboard level, but your dashboard is still going to show 6 second doses.

HSE isn't showing up to date data because it first has to validate the data
People want the data faster to try and keep the rage away
HSE makes dashboard available with live data with the caveat that each days data will take a few days to become accurate, and they make decisions only on the verified data, which will be published when verified
People take a look at live dashboard data and see inaccurate data
The rage starts again

I mean, they were asked to provide the raw data, did so and put the caveats on the data in place, and people then complain that they provided the raw data as it comes in.

People are the worst.

RavenBea17b

JDD wrote: »

Look, you're right. You can't blame the entire British public for the choices of their government, or how the vaccine roll out is being covered in the newspapers.

Lets put who said what and who agreed what in what contract aside for one minute (because I haven't read the contracts so I'm not sure who should get priority)...

If the EU are producing vaccines in their factories and exporting a portion of them to the UK and the US,

And the UK and US are far ahead of the EU in terms of supply they are receiving - from both domestic factories and imports,

And the UK and US are not exporting any of their domestically made vaccines to the EU,

then that's kind of c**tish behaviour.

You can say "well that's how the world works sonny - make sure you get better lawyers next time", or "well you should have individually negotiated for your own vaccines at a higher price like the UK did, then AZ would have prioritised you like they have with the UK" and fair enough if that's your position. I just don't find it very ethical or moral, especially in circumstances where 40 year olds are being vaccinated in the UK and US, whereas medically vulnerable people are still waiting for theirs in the EU.

You can see why the EU will, ultimately, block exports.

Yes, as I said, AZUK should be helping. Not sure about 30 year olds though in UK getting a jab. I do know in UK, NI that if you are suffering from medical conditions, dependant on level and type of illness - meting the criteria essentially, then you will be offered a vaccine, so yes, younger people have indeed received a vaccine, but I also understood it was on medical grounds or if you are a keyworker, such as a medic, caregiver in home facility etc.

Nor would I say a contract is a contract - that can't be bent or interpreted in a more human way. The 'provider' - in his case AZ, should play fair.

Turtwig

Amirani wrote: »

If your vaccination system (Salesforce) has 6 second doses loaded for Sunday, then you can put whatever data integrity and accuracy steps you want in at dashboard level, but your dashboard is still going to show 6 second doses.

You could put in a flag though to have a value that deviates a long way from the anticipated value such as expected dosages administered to be checked. This is assuming they have an easy way of comparing the anticipated value to the actual one.

Apogee

JMR46 wrote: »

Thanks for that update. I know a 96 year old housebound woman in the West of Ireland who hasn't been vaccinated yet so hopefully they will get to her soon.
Thankfully all bar 1 of her carers have been vaccinated

A specific question about a 90+ year old housebound female in Mayo was raised by a journalist. See video from 1.41:57
https://bit.ly/3ffXAf4

titan18

Amirani wrote: »

There's a difference between a live dashboard that takes a feed from a vaccination system, and as such is just a reflection of the input data to that system, and whatever reports it is you build manually.

The HSE dashboard wouldn't have any human intervention after it goes through UAT and into production, so your analogy isn't appropriate.

Im a person who builds the dashboards and engineering behind reports rather than someone who manually builds reports so my analogy is appropriate really.

We don't even know if the HSE dashboard is fully automated anyway. For all we know someone uploads an Excel file with the results every day.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

eoinbn wrote: »

Novavax will be delivering in April/May. Curevac are Q3.

It will be approved by then probably but deliveries don't start until later. Same with J&J for the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/novavax-publishes-positive-efficacy-data-for-its-covid-19-vaccine

"Thanks to the work of the government’s Vaccines Taskforce, the UK has secured 60 million doses of Novavax’s vaccine to be delivered in the second half of this year, if approved for use by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), who will assess whether the vaccine meets robust standards of safety, effectiveness and quality."

Amirani

namloc1980 wrote: »

There are ways of ensuring data integrity and accuracy even on dashboards believe it or not.

If your vaccination system (Salesforce) has 6 second doses loaded for Sunday, then you can put whatever data integrity and accuracy steps you want in at dashboard level, but your dashboard is still going to show 6 second doses.

eoinbn

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

But Novavax isn't delivering until the second half of the year. We will have CureVac by then.

Novavax will be delivering in April/May. Curevac are Q3.

Turtwig

namloc1980 wrote: »

There are ways of ensuring data integrity and accuracy even on dashboards believe it or not.

Absolutely. Don't disagree there.
Just as there are ways to read data before reporting to a mass audience.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Apogee wrote: »

That estimate of 'very high risk' (which I'm interpreting as Cohort 4) has increased from 150,000 to 200-230k.

17 minutes in:
https://bit.ly/3ffXAf4

Let's be honest, the general public are going to be waiting a very long time to get a vaccination at this rate.

At times like this you nearly wish you had already caught covid.... At least it would have been done and dusted

JDD

RavenBea17b wrote: »

You clearly have an issue with Brits - by calling Britain's behaviour and therefore defacto British people the C word - its a company!!!

I do not agree with what AZUK are doing - but it's not a people - its a company.

Why then didn't the EU contract stipulate differently?

UK has, along with EU and others supplied materials, finances, people power to get a vaccine for COVAX as well as supply chain supplier.
Why don't you start holding the Irish political parties accountable??

What was Ireland doing for vaccine procurement - before the EC took over. I have yet to read anything about that.

Yes, AZUK plants should send some serum, but from what I have been reading UK was also down on what AZUK had promised before Christmas and continues to be.
Why don't Ireland politician grow a pair and order direct?

Look, you're right. You can't blame the entire British public for the choices of their government, or how the vaccine roll out is being covered in the newspapers.

Lets put who said what and who agreed what in what contract aside for one minute (because I haven't read the contracts so I'm not sure who should get priority)...

If the EU are producing vaccines in their factories and exporting a portion of them to the UK and the US,

And the UK and US are far ahead of the EU in terms of supply they are receiving - from both domestic factories and imports,

And the UK and US are not exporting any of their domestically made vaccines to the EU,

then that's kind of c**tish behaviour.

You can say "well that's how the world works sonny - make sure you get better lawyers next time", or "well you should have individually negotiated for your own vaccines at a higher price like the UK did, then AZ would have prioritised you like they have with the UK" and fair enough if that's your position. I just don't find it very ethical or moral, especially in circumstances where 40 year olds are being vaccinated in the UK and US, whereas medically vulnerable people are still waiting for theirs in the EU.

You can see why the EU will, ultimately, block exports.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

eoinbn wrote: »

I did think that might be part of the reason for the delay. The EU can't really complain about a vaccine that they havent ordered going from the EU to the UK, Canada, Australia US etc.
They didn't back Novavax and instead threw billions at Curevac which has been a mistake. The people making these decisions need to be moved on. Nobody else made as many bad calls as the EU team.

But Novavax isn't delivering until the second half of the year. We will have CureVac by then.

Amirani

titan18 wrote: »

It's not real time. It's reporting pretty much 2 and a half days later. I work in a data/reporting role and create those reports and if I put out data that said we made 10 sales yesterday and we actually made it 1000 and that went to senior managers, I'd be fecked out of it.

There's a difference between a live dashboard that takes a feed from a vaccination system, and as such is just a reflection of the input data to that system, and whatever reports it is you build manually.

The HSE dashboard wouldn't have any human intervention after it goes through UAT and into production, so your analogy isn't appropriate.

Apogee

Apogee wrote: »

HSE Briefing:
-17,500 AZ administered since Sunday to Today
-Estimate of 200-230k in Cohort 4
-Will take until end April/early May to do Cohort 4

That estimate of 'very high risk' (which I'm interpreting as Cohort 4) has increased from 150,000 to 200-230k.

17 minutes in:
https://bit.ly/3ffXAf4

eoinbn

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1375114125630705674

Organise. Piss-up. Brewery.

I did think that might be part of the reason for the delay. The EU can't really complain about a vaccine that they havent ordered going from the EU to the UK, Canada, Australia US etc.
They didn't back Novavax and instead threw billions at Curevac which has been a mistake. The people making these decisions need to be moved on. Nobody else made as many bad calls as the EU team.

hmmm

namloc1980 wrote: »

They're just posting the data that is published on the HSE dashboard. You would expect the data to be correct so why should journalists or the public have to double check if the published data is correct or not?

I wouldn't expect the public to check it, no. I expect a reporter would want to check it though. Isn't that what a reporter does?

I'm not expecting reporters to check every single bit of data, but if the system is reporting a figure which sounds a bit mad Ted, wouldn't you want to check it before reporting it? (or is that just me?).

josip

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1375114125630705674

Novovax doing what AZ should have done but didn't.

titan18

Turtwig wrote: »

No.
Any real time reporting dashboards and interfaces needs to be used and interpreted appropriately.

It's not real time. It's reporting pretty much 2 and a half days later. I work in a data/reporting role and create those reports and if I put out data that said we made 10 sales yesterday and we actually made it 1000 and that went to senior managers, I'd be fecked out of it.

[Deleted User]

https://twitter.com/PriscillaLynch/status/1375118374162817030?s=19

Seems it is confirmed now, that they are in talks, hopefully it wont take long.