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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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astrofool

Deleted User wrote: »

Keeping 2nd doses more than likely. The usual abundance of caution that's holding back most of the continent.

You know that's not true, you've been on the threads, what was the point of that reply? The extra unused doses are purely down to the AZ rollout pause. Everything else that can make it into arms is going into arms. Moderna mandate that 50% are held back for second doses, and Pfizer only require a minimal % to be held back for second doses that are due imminently due to the stability of their supply.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

To start with you've a large bulk of AZ that couldn't be used for a week so stock on hand increases there by roughly 90k while it couldn't be used. Secondly Moderna require 50% of stock to be held back

Interesting to see that we're now lagging behind some of the countries that continued using their AZ vaccine supply (showing that the EU is mostly supply limited). Denmark has also kept the pause on AZ for another few weeks, so most countries should pass them out fairly quickly. We should catch up quite fast in the next 2 weeks, and if the supply comes online, we'll start seeing the MVC open up as well.

Quote from our own MEP on what's been going on:

Frances Fitzgerald wrote:

Ms Fitzgerald said the EU was taking a global approach to the pandemic and supply of vaccines and expected the same approach from others, however, the UK was not responding with the same level of reciprocity.

“The EU felt very let down by the UK,” she said.

The MEP also pointed out that the EU had facilitated the supply of vaccines to 93 countries through Covax, while there had been no transparency by the UK about what they had done.

EU statements today should shed some light on this, the UK press has already been spinning their latest narratives.

the kelt

Is there anything to be said for moving the vaccinations from GP surgeries to community halls or something similar?

Maybe its not possible i dont know but its just from my own experience of bringing my father for his vaccination.

Two hours it took with 15 mins of that being the wait after the vaccination. But an hour and half of that wait was outside the surgery in the bitter cold. The poor secretary was doing her best trying to get chairs outside for those with walking aids etc but there was old people many not in great health to begin with queing outside in the freezing cold for the bones of 90 mins.

All whilst i sat in the car across the road waiting outside a huge bloody community centre thats not being used for anything these days. I did ask could my dad keep his place in the q and sit in the car but the secretary said she couldnt do that which is understandable enough with people coming all the time.

Now maybe it isnt possible but surely the likes of that community centre could be used if available? Or has that approach been asked and ruled out?

PhoenixParker

the kelt wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for moving the vaccinations from GP surgeries to community halls or something similar?

Maybe its not possible i dont know but its just from my own experience of bringing my father for his vaccination.

Two hours it took with 15 mins of that being the wait after the vaccination. But an hour and half of that wait was outside the surgery in the bitter cold. The poor secretary was doing her best trying to get chairs outside for those with walking aids etc but there was old people many not in great health to begin with queing outside in the freezing cold for the bones of 90 mins.

All whilst i sat in the car across the road waiting outside a huge bloody community centre thats not being used for anything these days. I did ask could my dad keep his place in the q and sit in the car but the secretary said she couldnt do that which is understandable enough with people coming all the time.

Now maybe it isnt possible but surely the likes of that community centre could be used if available? Or has that approach been asked and ruled out?

Using the community centre would be something for the GPs themselves to sort. Or sorting out their scheduling problems. That's not something for the HSE. Other GP clinics have done things like set up drive through vaccinations.

There are big vaccination centres in operation and plans to include Dentists and pharmacies in the rollout once supply ramps up a bit further.

KrustyUCC

AdamD wrote: »

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1375037752979435523

Not great today, really need to hit 20k a day this week looking at those supplies.

Very poor figures considering we had to postpone 30,000 people thanks to the AZ blip and have extra doses in storage

AZ was reapproved by the EMA on Thursday

In Ireland by Friday

You had Friday night, Saturday, Sunday to rearrange appointments and get supplies where they needed to be

No sense of urgency displayed here on those figures

You'd hope they've ramped up during the week

JPA

the kelt wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for moving the vaccinations from GP surgeries to community halls or something similar?

Maybe its not possible i dont know but its just from my own experience of bringing my father for his vaccination.

Two hours it took with 15 mins of that being the wait after the vaccination. But an hour and half of that wait was outside the surgery in the bitter cold. The poor secretary was doing her best trying to get chairs outside for those with walking aids etc but there was old people many not in great health to begin with queing outside in the freezing cold for the bones of 90 mins.

All whilst i sat in the car across the road waiting outside a huge bloody community centre thats not being used for anything these days. I did ask could my dad keep his place in the q and sit in the car but the secretary said she couldnt do that which is understandable enough with people coming all the time.

Now maybe it isnt possible but surely the likes of that community centre could be used if available? Or has that approach been asked and ruled out?

Sounds like bad organisation from the GP, there should be no need for long queueing time if given a time slot.

trellheim

Official Government press release on deliveries
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/1ba0f-update-on-covid-19-vaccine-deliveries-thursday-25th-march-2021/

Wolf359f

Mitch Connor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1375037640169361412

Considering we had previously been over 90% doses to Jabs, why is there a gap of 175k doses unadministered now?

Last I checked we were not doing 100k a week, so that gap amounts to two weeks of doses just sitting around.

There should be no excuse for not hitting 150k to 170k jabs this week as the vaccines are there.

AZ obviously was paused.

Moderna as you can see, we had weeks of no deliveries, if they jabbed 40,800 with the first dose at the start of the year, there wouldn't be enough for their second dose, which is due now. We'll start seeing the 22090 second doses now (it's mainly GP's who got that, so probably another weekend doing them). The 27600 doses that arrived, I'm sure only 13,800 will be used and the rest held back.

Pfizer delivered 570960 so far and 530524 administered. Difference of ~40k.
There's a process between delivery and jabbing, so I'd say there would be many of that 40k in GP's fridges as they jab away for the week. (it would be prudent to hold some back so we don't hear of GP's being left short on deliveries. But then we have people saying they haven't used all the Pfizer supply etc...)

The one manufacturer that is extremely consistent with deliveries is Pfizer, and that's the one that seems to be having the fastest turnaround from delivery to jabbing.

FlubberJones

trellheim wrote: »

Official Government press release on deliveries
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/1ba0f-update-on-covid-19-vaccine-deliveries-thursday-25th-march-2021/

Its going to take months to get this progressing positively... MONTHS

[Deleted User]

astrofool wrote: »

You know that's not true, you've been on the threads, what was the point of that reply? The extra unused doses are purely down to the AZ rollout pause. Everything else that can make it into arms is going into arms. Moderna mandate that 50% are held back for second doses, and Pfizer only require a minimal % to be held back for second doses that are due imminently due to the stability of their supply.

The sudden increase in the gap can't be explained by <50k AZ being held for a week. Which we were also told would be caught back up super quick no really you guys.

Apogee

Apogee wrote: »

Deliveries as of 14th March vs target for March 31st/Q1
Pfizer 511,290/690,300 = 74% delivered
Moderna 40,800/109,200 = 37% delivered
AZ 206,400/377,000 = 54% delivered

Doses administered* as of 14th March vs deliveries same week:
Pfizer 468,366/511,290 = 92% administered
Moderna 19,389/40,800 = 48% administered
AZ 124,510/206,400 = 60% administered
*Percentages are probably an underestimate, as there is often a reporting lag.

Update on above with latest figures:
Deliveries as of 21st March vs target for March 31st/Q1
Pfizer 570,980/690,300 = 83% delivered (9% increase)
Moderna 68,400/109,200 = 62% delivered (25% increase)
AZ 216,000/377,000 = 57% delivered (3% increase)

Doses administered as of 21st March vs deliveries same week:
Pfizer 525,778/570,980 = 92% administered (no change)
Moderna 21,605/68,400 = 31% administered (17% decrease)
AZ 132,632/216,000 = 61% administered (1% increase)

trellheim

so now we are into crunch time on deliveries . Did anyone listen to Donnelly in the Dail this morning - I had to work.

Based on some tweets going around it looks like there might be some more certainty

Fitz*

If those 170,000 vaccines are being 'held back' for 2nd doses, then why were only 6 (six) administered last Sunday?

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1375054138740989956

namloc1980

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Yeah, and it's 100% certain we will use them

We've been repeatedly told here that we administer vaccines as soon as we get them and don't hold them. But now we have 170k not used. What's going on?

astrofool

Deleted User wrote: »

The sudden increase in the gap can't be explained by <50k AZ being held for a week. Which we were also told would be caught back up super quick no really you guys.

The AZ figure is close to 100k, Ireland is still getting 95% of vaccines into arms within 7 days of receiving them. That number will drop this week and next due to the backlog of AZ, then be back to 95%. The next big ramp up will be when the MVC open up, then the % will drop as the volume will be greater and number of people involved will go up, so more cancellations, managing of logistics etc. (just to give you a preview of the weeks ahead, which I'm sure will be ignored).

namloc1980 wrote: »

We've been repeatedly told here that we administer vaccines as soon as we get them and don't hold them. But now we have 170k not used. What's going on?

I don't think anyone has said that, Moderna require 50% hold back, Pfizer a very small % and AZ are on catch-up after the pause and changing of guidelines for >70 year olds.

The best day to look at is Sundays, when we're usually out of supply, we should see a jump on this Sunday vs. last Sunday due to the supplies lasting longer (with the caveat of waiting a few days for the final figures, because numbers get revised as data gets sent in).

josip

FlubberJones wrote: »

Its going to take months to get this progressing positively... MONTHS

Yes, and every week will be an improvement on the previous one.
Let's surf the longest wave of positivity in the state since Bertie was at the wheel.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Mitch Connor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1375037640169361412

Considering we had previously been over 90% doses to Jabs, why is there a gap of 175k doses unadministered now?

Last I checked we were not doing 100k a week, so that gap amounts to two weeks of doses just sitting around.

There should be no excuse for not hitting 150k to 170k jabs this week as the vaccines are there.

According to the dashboard

Up until Monday we have given out 22k Moderna, 127K AZ, and 530K BioNtech.

So in stock assuming no deliveries between Friday and Monday would be

40k Pfizer, 46k Moderna, and 79K AZ.

40K Pfizer is a fair buffer in case of any issues.
46K Moderna is a bit silly given that we would only have 22k second doses to do at maximum. I wonder what the issue is there.
79K AZ would be about right given that AZ had been suspended for a week.

[Deleted User]

astrofool wrote: »

The AZ figure is close to 100k, Ireland is still getting 95% of vaccines into arms within 7 days of receiving them. That number will drop this week and next due to the backlog of AZ, then be back to 95%. The next big ramp up will be when the MVC open up, then the % will drop as the volume will be greater and number of people involved will go up, so more cancellations, managing of logistics etc. (just to give you a preview of the weeks ahead, which I'm sure will be ignored).

Should it not be over 100% this week for AZ? Since we received a bunch last week which weren't used til this week? If we're being efficient that is.

trellheim

Its going to take months to get this progressing positively... MONTHS

Yes it is. But if its only three more months to get to 80% then I'd be in happier place

KrustyUCC

Fitz* wrote: »

If those 170,000 vaccines are being 'held back' for 2nd doses, then why were only 6 (six) administered last Sunday?

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1375054138740989956

Less than 3000 doses on a Sunday

Very impressive

ACitizenErased

The shock at low numbers on a sunday every single week is tiring at this stage

MerlinSouthDub

namloc1980 wrote: »

We've been repeatedly told here that we administer vaccines as soon as we get them and don't hold them. But now we have 170k not used. What's going on?

Target is to use 95% within one week (except Moderna where Moderna have asked us to hold back 50%).

Wolf359f

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The shock at low numbers on a sunday every single week is tiring at this stage

I know, every single week like clockwork.
But this weekend I'd expect that to change with AZ to be given out. GP's should be getting their second jab shortly, that's usually at the weekends with moderna. No excuse not to see a good bump up in figures for the rest of this week as there is supply there to be given out.

namloc1980

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Target is to use 95% within one week (except Moderna where Moderna have asked us to hold back 50%).

Up to last week 68k Moderna had been delivered yet just 22k administered. Why are we holding over 40k back?

KrustyUCC

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The shock at low numbers on a sunday every single week is tiring at this stage

What's the excuse for last week?

Can't be supply issues seeing as we had AZ to give out and held back from the pause

namloc1980

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The shock at low numbers on a sunday every single week is tiring at this stage

Thankfully the virus takes Sunday off.

Wolf359f

namloc1980 wrote: »

Up to last week 68k Moderna had been delivered yet just 22k administered. Why are we holding over 40k back?

22k are to be used for gp's second doses due this weekend or next. Then of the 20k left, only half of that will be given out and the other half held until the next delivery.
If we gave all the 40k out as first doses, we would only have that 20k delivery to do second doses on 40k. You see the issue there?

ACitizenErased

KrustyUCC wrote: »

What's the excuse for last week?

Can't be supply issues seeing as we had AZ to give out and held back from the pause

It's fairly well documented at this stage that the bulk of our vaccinations take place mid week for various different reasons. The shock is ridiculous.

namloc1980

Wolf359f wrote: »

22k are to be used for gp's second doses due this weekend or next. Then of the 20k left, only half of that will be given out and the other half held until the next delivery.
If we gave all the 40k out as first doses, we would only have that 20k delivery to do second doses on 40k. You see the issue there?

Wrong. Total of 22k Moderna given so far includes a number second doses. So again it begs the question, why are we holding so many back?

KrustyUCC

Last week should have been an exception

The HSE had thousands of people to catch up on from the AZ pause and the supply in place

Points to a major lack of urgency

astrofool

Deleted User wrote: »

Should it not be over 100% this week for AZ? Since we received a bunch last week which weren't used til this week? If we're being efficient that is.

How can we give more than 100% of the vaccines we receive?