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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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namloc1980

Sconsey wrote: »

Que the 'why are they leaving them in fridges?' birgade. The HSE get beat up for not deploying them as soon as they arrive, or they get beat up for trying to deploy them as soon as they arrive because missing delievries cause problem.

I made absolutely no mention of them being in fridges. You just manufactured that in your own head.

Are we to believe that the HSE have such little grasp on the deliveries that they have no idea what they are going to get until the ship/plane arrives and they open the box? Is there not any paperwork at all being provided when the vaccines are shipped? That's quite concerning if that's the case.

Sconsey

namloc1980 wrote: »

I made absolutely no mention of them being in fridges. You just manufactured that in your own head.

Yeah I never said you did, I am simply saying there is no way to please all the people all the time. If they slow down deployment to try to eliminate cock-ups, like the one described, then a whole other bunch of people will start shouting that they are doing it wrong.

KrustyUCC

My sister in law got her second Pfeizer vaccine today in the UK

12 weeks apart

She's a nurse

Very different system over there

hynesie08

namloc1980 wrote: »

I made absolutely no mention of them being in fridges. You just manufactured that in your own head.

Are we to believe that the HSE have such little grasp on the deliveries that they have no idea what they are going to get until the ship/plane arrives and they open the box? Is there not any paperwork at all being provided when the vaccines are shipped? That's quite concerning if that's the case.

They've literally come out and said that they don't know how many az they receive until they count them.

crossman47

KrustyUCC wrote: »

My sister in law got her second Pfeizer vaccine today in the UK

12 weeks apart

She's a nurse

Very different system over there

AFAIK front line workers have got the vaccine here also.

ixoy

Red Silurian wrote: »

There's not much we can do as people but there's a lot our govt can do to help fix the supply issues.

There isn't really though a lot they can do.

they can bypass the EMA like how the UK (twice in December) and Poland did and approve another Vaccine before the EMA do

What vaccine would you have them approve then and would you trust them to have reviewed it properly? I thought the HSE and all are incompetent but we'd trust them for a review of, presumably, Sputnik?

KrustyUCC

crossman47 wrote: »

AFAIK front line workers have got the vaccine here also.

Yes but 4 weeks apart here afaik

crossman47

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yes but 4 weeks apart here afaik

Thats what was recommended but UK have decided to get one dose to as many as possible first. May be better, may be worse.

Red Silurian

ixoy wrote: »

There isn't really though a lot they can do.

What vaccine would you have them approve then and would you trust them to have reviewed it properly? I thought the HSE and all are incompetent but we'd trust them for a review of, presumably, Sputnik?

In Ireland it would be the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) formerly called the Irish Medicines Board (IMB) that would review vaccines such as Sputnik V, Novavax and Curevax... Vaccines the EMA has said already that they will approve

Red Silurian

crossman47 wrote: »

Thats what was recommended but UK have decided to get one dose to as many as possible first. May be better, may be worse.

The decision to spread the dosages to 12 weeks - instead of the manufacturers recommended 4 weeks - was taken by the 4 chief medical officers of the UK under pressure from the British Govt

It was seen as a massive risk at the time but early signs are that it has worked very well for them, we obviously won't know for certain until 24 weeks after the date they started doing this

ixoy

Red Silurian wrote: »

In Ireland it would be the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) formerly called the Irish Medicines Board (IMB) that would review vaccines such as Sputnik V, Novavax and Curevax... Vaccines the EMA has said already that they will approve

When have the EMA said they will approve those vaccines? They'll look at submissions for approval but have not said they'll approve them.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1374400918548934667

JDD

Red Silurian wrote: »

The decision to spread the dosages to 12 weeks - instead of the manufacturers recommended 4 weeks - was taken by the 4 chief medical officers of the UK under pressure from the British Govt

It was seen as a massive risk at the time but early signs are that it has worked very well for them, we obviously won't know for certain until 24 weeks after the date they started doing this

Was it a massive risk though? Vaccinations for kids are spread 3 to 6 months apart.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the trials have a number of different gaps between the first and second dose, and 3 weeks was the shortest amount of time you could spread them apart and still get maximum efficiency? I don't think it was the case that they just plucked 12 weeks from the air and decided it wouldn't have an effect on efficiency.

I think we were just blinkered by the idea that we must get the maximum number fully vaccinated without taking into account that the first jab would go a long way to reducing hospitalisations, deaths, and spread - even if efficiency was only 60% or so, we would have been better off getting as many first doses into people as possible.

We may not like it, but the UK made the right choice, and the EU made the wrong one. It happens. It sucks because it feeds into the jingoisitic brexit narrative, but that doesn't make it untrue or the wrong decision.

We've backed ourselves into a corner now though. We can't ban exports because we'd have to ban them to all countries, not just the UK. And if India and Brazil and Turkey don't get their finished vaccines, they will start banning the export of the raw materials needed to make the vaccine in the EU. And we can't decide to just not export AZ, but export Pfizer and Moderna. Ideally we'd ban the export of the AZ vaccine and any raw materials to make other vaccines to the UK only, as a way to "encourage" them to export some of their AZ made in UK based factories to the EU. But you can see where that would end up. My God, if we thought they were jingoistic now, that would serve to turn most remainers to brexiteers. And that's where you move into more dangerous territory.

Apogee

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374396579801563146

Red Silurian

JDD wrote: »

Was it a massive risk though? Vaccinations for kids are spread 3 to 6 months apart.

Yes it was a massive risk. Going against manufacturers recommendations will always carry a risk and when it comes to vaccines during a pandemic... In hindsight it actually paid off as the early signs show an enhanced immune response in most patients

JDD wrote: »

We may not like it, but the UK made the right choice, and the EU made the wrong one. It happens. It sucks because it feeds into the jingoisitic brexit narrative, but that doesn't make it untrue or the wrong decision.

100% yes, the EU have made a few wrong calls. Useless Von Der Leyen is certainly living up to her nickname! Is that really a valid reason to leave the EU though? Wouldn't it be better to have the same trading block with competent people in charge?

JDD wrote: »

We've backed ourselves into a corner now though. We can't ban exports because we'd have to ban them to all countries, not just the UK. And if India and Brazil and Turkey don't get their finished vaccines, they will start banning the export of the raw materials needed to make the vaccine in the EU. And we can't decide to just not export AZ, but export Pfizer and Moderna. Ideally we'd ban the export of the AZ vaccine and any raw materials to make other vaccines to the UK only, as a way to "encourage" them to export some of their AZ made in UK based factories to the EU. But you can see where that would end up. My God, if we thought they were jingoistic now, that would serve to turn most remainers to brexiteers. And that's where you move into more dangerous territory.

The UK and the USA aren't exporting any of their supply so why the same move can't work for us is questionable! I think we can block exports purely of vaccine developers that are defaulting on their supply contracts to the EU Astrazenneca in this case... In saying that I think it would be better to try and talk to the UK and the USA rather than coming across as threatening to them

This is not a good time for a war

[Deleted User]

Red Silurian wrote: »

Yes it was a massive risk. Going against manufacturers recommendations will always carry a risk and when it comes to vaccines during a pandemic... In hindsight it actually paid off as the early signs show an enhanced immune response in most patients...........

Indeed, Pfizer recommend 3 to 4 weeks.
Applying the 12 week AZ interval to the Pfizer vaccine was just a punt that has shown favourable results.

Pete_Cavan

JDD wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the trials have a number of different gaps between the first and second dose, and 3 weeks was the shortest amount of time you could spread them apart and still get maximum efficiency? I don't think it was the case that they just plucked 12 weeks from the air and decided it wouldn't have an effect on efficiency.

Pretty sure that that is true for AZ, and we have adopted the same regime here, but not for Pfizer where the recommendation remains 3 or 4 weeks.

[Deleted User]

Red Silurian wrote: »

Yes it was a massive risk. Going against manufacturers recommendations will always carry a risk and when it comes to vaccines during a pandemic... In hindsight it actually paid off as the early signs show an enhanced immune response in most patients

100% yes, the EU have made a few wrong calls. Useless Von Der Leyen is certainly living up to her nickname! Is that really a valid reason to leave the EU though? Wouldn't it be better to have the same trading block with competent people in charge?

The UK and the USA aren't exporting any of their supply so why the same move can't work for us is questionable! I think we can block exports purely of vaccine developers that are defaulting on their supply contracts to the EU Astrazenneca in this case... In saying that I think it would be better to try and talk to the UK and the USA rather than coming across as threatening to them

This is not a good time for a war

It was a risk but its not by chance that there just happened to be an enhanced immune response in patients - The British based their decision off their knowledge of vaccines as a whole, where that is typically the case.

trellheim

A big hint there from the PM that a deal is close with the EU on vaccine blockades, and wouldn't deny he's prepared to share AZ doses from the Halix factory as part of it. Added: "There's no point in one country being immunised alone. We need the whole planet to be inoculated”.

woot

Tom Newton Dunn highly reliable usually

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1374418268891451393

eoinbn

trellheim wrote: »

woot

Tom Newton Dunn highly reliable usually

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1374418268891451393

I love how the British government/media have been framing the story. The PM is willing to share the vaccines from the Netherlands with the EU. How nice of him.

is_that_so

eoinbn wrote: »

I love how the British government/media have been framing the story. The PM is willing to share the vaccines from the Netherlands with the EU. How nice of him.

It doesn't matter how we get there and UK media will always frame it that way anyway. What's closer to the truth is that a sharp-eyed adviser somewhere spotted the EU handbags were about to be replaced with some very heavy mallets.

GT89

I said a while back that there may be coercion to get people to take the vaccine some people doubted my argument. Well I guess I have been proven right.
https://twitter.com/shannoncarty3/status/1374290179956047875?s=19

lbj666

GT89 wrote: »

I said a while back that there may be coercion to get people to take the vaccine some people doubted my argument. Well I guess I have been proven right.
https://twitter.com/shannoncarty3/status/1374290179956047875?s=19

To answer her question, not soon enough. I'd be delighted to see such debates happening.

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

It doesn't matter how we get there and UK media will always frame it that way anyway. What's closer to the truth is that a sharp-eyed adviser somewhere spotted the EU handbags were about to be replaced with some very heavy mallets.

Tbh anything other than EU having all the vaccines from there is sh1t. Why share vaccines produced in the EU with the UK when they won't share the ones produced in the UK with the EU.

trellheim

Boris knows well this is the first item of discussion at EU Council tomorrow

is_that_so

titan18 wrote: »

Tbh anything other than EU having all the vaccines from there is sh1t. Why share vaccines produced in the EU with the UK when they won't share the ones produced in the UK with the EU.

It's Britain looking down the barrel of gun and seeing their brilliant vaccination screech to a halt, especially now with the Indian delay. Sure it will not be optimal for the EU not to get all of it but Pfizer can fill part of that gap and even half of 10m is worth having. It may also push out the need to block vaccines leaving the EU. AZ are toast as far as any possible future EU contracts are concerned.

is_that_so

lbj666 wrote: »

To answer her question, not soon enough. I'd be delighted to see such debates happening.

Get the vaccine or else is not a debate!

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

It's Britain looking down the barrel of gun and seeing their brilliant vaccination screech to a halt, especially now with the Indian delay. Sure it will not be optimal for the EU not to get all of it but Pfizer can fill part of that gap and even half of 10m is worth having. It may also push out the need to block vaccines leaving the EU. AZ are toast as far as any possible future EU contracts are concerned.

I don't particularly see why the EU should be sending vaccines produced in th EU to vaccinate 40 years in the UK when there are 70 year olds in the EU unvaccinated. It seems stupid tbh.

is_that_so

titan18 wrote: »

I don't particularly see why the EU should be sending vaccines produced in th EU to vaccinate 40 years in the UK when there are 70 year olds in the EU unvaccinated. It seems stupid tbh.

Needs must if they don't want this to go nuclear, which it could. It's not Britain to blame for the mess we're now all in. The only real way out of this is other vaccines and that will take a while.

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

Needs must if they don't want this to go nuclear, which it could. It's not Britain to blame for the mess we're now all in. The only real way out of this is other vaccines and that will take a while.

It going nuclear hurts the UK more than us so feck them tbh if they want to go nuclear over not getting some of the vaccines from the Halix factory. Can't keep on backing down from bullies.