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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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astrofool

brickster69 wrote: »

It will of cost hundreds of lives if not thousands. While countries were vaccinating postmen the old died needlessly. Can you imagine, millions of old people in Europe are now left unprotected as the Uk variant rips through those states.

The UK is now vaccinating non-old people, are they going to start exporting vaccine early for the billions of old people unprotected around the world? Lots of lives would be saved. I know your answer will be no, but the pearl clutching and hypocrisy is kind of hilarious to watch (if you weren't you trying to "get one over" with people dying being your target).

robinph

Russman wrote: »

You don't think it would be an idea to maybe try to convince them and explain to them why they should take it or why its safe ?
Just tough sh1t if you have any doubts buddy, step aside ?

At the moment no, just line up all the people willing to take the vaccines and get it in their arms. No time for messing about.

The UK is potentially soon approaching the point at which they could spend more time convincing people in order to get the numbers up, and they are doing various targeted campaigns towards groups which have more vaccine hesitancy. Having upwards of 90% of the most vulnerable to dying sections of the population now gives more flexibility, they still need the rest of the population to take the vaccines to reduce transmission as well.

At the beginning of the year the EU was a few weeks behind the UK rollout, they are now several months behind and getting further behind, not catching up. Getting the vaccines into most people's arms before the autumn is critical, and whilst the most vulnerable should be targeted first, just getting as much of the general population done is critical if you want to prevent it spreading at the same rates again next winter.

snotboogie

The international picture is interesting. 4 distinct groups have emerged in terms of vaccination, Israel way out in front with 110 shots for every 100 people. UAE are way ahead of the next pack in second with 66. Then a bigger group including the US, UK, Serbia, Bahrain and Chile at between 30 and 40 shots. Then a bigger cluster again which includes most of the EU, Turkey, Singapore and Canada at between 8 and 15 shots. Then you have Russia, China and Brazil who all have 5 shots. Less distinction under 5 shots with lots of smaller groups between 1 and 4 shots and a final huge group who have next to nothing done.

UAE is an interesting study, I haven't looked at them in detail but their cases started falling once they hit 30 shots and more dramatically when they hit 60 shots. I understand there has been little to no restrictions outside of social distancing in the UAE over this time so they may be a better case study than Israel, where the drop in cases has been more dramatic but was marked by a December surge and subsequent restrictions, unfortunately the UAE's vaccination rate has slowed to below 0.5 per day so we will have to wait longer to see results. The US and Chile will likely catch up with them over the next few weeks. Chile will be very interesting to watch as they have been vaccinating at 1%+ of their population per day for the last week and are still having increasing cases. When will their drop in cases come? We should see it around the next 7 days I'd say.

The UK, while doing much better than the EU group have struggled to ramp up beyond 0.5 per day and will very soon be left behind by the US who are flirting with the 1% per day number now.

JTMan

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Moderna starting vaccine trial with children under 12 years old:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2021/03/16/moderna-starts-covid-19-vaccine-trial-in-kids-younger-than-12-years-old/

Good news. FT have more on the 6 months to 12 year old trial here.

Participants aged 2 to 12 will receive half and full doses of the adult vaccine, while children under 2 will get a quarter, a half and a full dose.

Trial involves 7,000 children.

stephenjmcd

EMA briefing due to begin shortly

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1371792095934091270?s=19

Pete_Cavan

brickster69 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Most of the EU only approving use in under 70s initially.

And how many lives has that decision cost to the most at risk ?

No mention of that eh ? Anyone want to guess ?

None because AZ has just been given to those under 70 who are being vaccinated in parallel. Giving AZ to over 70s would just have seen Pfizer/Moderna being given to parallel under 70s, it wouldn't have created any additional vaccines.

mick087

Russman wrote: »

You don't think it would be an idea to maybe try to convince them and explain to them why they should take it or why its safe ?
Just tough sh1t if you have any doubts buddy, step aside ?

We have had over a year to convince people to take a vaccine.

And yes more should of been done and should be done to convince people.

Some elected governments within the EU have scare mongered which does not help

Have as many doubts as you wish that is fine. But please don't hold up those willing wanting to take the vaccine.

The HorsesMouth

astrofool wrote: »

The UK is now vaccinating non-old people, are they going to start exporting vaccine early for the billions of old people unprotected around the world? Lots of lives would be saved. I know your answer will be no, but the pearl clutching and hypocrisy is kind of hilarious to watch (if you weren't you trying to "get one over" with people dying being your target).

This vaccine rollout out has done more to fuel nationalism than the right wing and far right wing parties could ever have hoped to do.

There should have been a concerted effort among the EU, US and UK (at the least) where once vaccines are given to the vulnerable and elderly ( or at least over 60) in home countries, they are then distributed out to countries who have yet to vaccinate their population of the same.

It's without question the right thing to do. Instead countries have shown they will put flag and nationalism ahead of the protection of the human race as a whole. I'm in my 30s and I'm fairly sure I will be offered this vaccine before a 70 or 80 year old in most third world countries. What is the point in that? And you could say a similar situation is happening right now except we are not a third world country.
A 40 year old is been given the vaccine up the road where the disease poses little or no risk and the reality is someone in their 70s or 80s will probably die somewhere is this country because of this skewed distribution.
Where are peoples conscience on this?? The history books will surely look back on this and lament the state of how these governments handled it.

mick087

robinph wrote: »

At the moment no, just line up all the people willing to take the vaccines and get it in their arms. No time for messing about.

That is spot on excellent.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

stephenjmcd wrote: »

EMA briefing due to begin shortly

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1371792095934091270?s=19

I'll save you an hour. Blah blah blah... no evidence to suggest there is a casual relationship... blah blah blah... we'll conduct a thorough investigation... blah blah blah... we'll give our conclusive recommendation on Thursday.

ACitizenErased

EMA says no indication so far the vaccine has caused the clots

stephenjmcd

Final conclusion still due Thursday however it doesn't look like much is going to change

Threads

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1371811358325542916?s=19

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1371812741846032386?s=19

robinph

I belive the data is derived from the rough numbers published on the reports about people having symptoms, but this is the first bit I've found showing how many doses of each vaccine they have actually been giving out in the UK. Only just over 50% Pfizer so far:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1I7DUw8YR6h314dDiIikWbfyOI2ANlgRvLeApwW28br4/htmlview

redt0m

Any word about vaccine shortages in Ireland? My mother in Donegal has just had her Friday morning first dose appointment cancelled because of vaccine shortage, and has to wait now until April 16th.

RavenBea17b

redt0m wrote: »

Any word about vaccine shortages in Ireland? My mother in Donegal has just had her Friday morning first dose appointment cancelled because of vaccine shortage, and has to wait now until April 16th.

Not seen anything. Ouch 16th April.

feelings

Ouch, that's some delay. What age?

If the EMA announcement on Thursday is positive, I presume they'll recommence the AZ vaccinations here fairly quickly?

redt0m wrote: »

Any word about vaccine shortages in Ireland? My mother in Donegal has just had her Friday morning first dose appointment cancelled because of vaccine shortage, and has to wait now until April 16th.

Marhay70

feelings wrote: »

Ouch, that's some delay. What age?

If the EMA announcement on Thursday is positive, I presume they'll recommence the AZ vaccinations here fairly quickly?

I can only assume she was due to get the Pfizer/Moderna jab, there have been various delays over the weeks due to logistics problems. Donnelly said the other day that those whose AZ jabs were postponed would not be pushed back when they resumwe. Tough all the same.

brickster69

astrofool wrote: »

The UK is now vaccinating non-old people, are they going to start exporting vaccine early for the billions of old people unprotected around the world? Lots of lives would be saved. I know your answer will be no, but the pearl clutching and hypocrisy is kind of hilarious to watch (if you weren't you trying to "get one over" with people dying being your target).

You do know who put Covax together and how much they donated. Also pledged it's remaining vaccines to poorer countries once finished it's own population. No doubt they will be exporting also to poorer countries.

What has Ireland done ?

Amirani

mick087 wrote: »

We have had over a year to convince people to take a vaccine.

And yes more should of been done and should be done to convince people..

Convincing people all year to take vaccines that hadn't been through phase 3 trials and hadn't demonstrated efficacy would have been disingenuous and probably counterproductive. I certainly would have placed less trust in them if there'd been attempts to convince me that they were something that they had not been scientifically proven to be (and it was by no means a foregone conclusion that they would be so effective).

But I trust them fully because of the processes have been followed and there hasn't been clear attempts to lie or mislead.

Deeper Blue

I'm assuming we'll be back using AZ this time next week?

brickster69

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

None because AZ has just been given to those under 70 who are being vaccinated in parallel. Giving AZ to over 70s would just have seen Pfizer/Moderna being given to parallel under 70s, it wouldn't have created any additional vaccines.

None really. You honestly believe that ?

Turtwig

Deeper Blue wrote: »

I'm assuming we'll be back using AZ this time next week?

Expect so but hope they have identified what the risk factors are for this severe type of clotting event. The events reported in Norway are very abnormal. If there is a population more susceptible to these kind of adverse events we need to identify them as quickly as possible. If it's relevant they should avoid the vaccine, or mitigation strategies should be adopted to lower and monitor these groups overall risks.
The overall risk to the general population may remain largely unchanged. That will need to be emphasised if there are additional warnings applied to AZ.

ixoy

brickster69 wrote: »

You do know who put Covax together and how much they donated. Also pledged it's remaining vaccines to poorer countries once finished it's own population. No doubt they will be exporting also to poorer countries.

What has Ireland done ?

We're part of the EU's COVAX program so we're helping out with that €1bn program.

Marhay70

Deeper Blue wrote: »

I'm assuming we'll be back using AZ this time next week?

Presumably those locations which had already had their supply delivered when AZ was pulled, still have them. Can't see any reason why they couldn't start immediately, or within a very short time, once the all clear is given

mick087

Amirani wrote: »

Convincing people all year to take vaccines that hadn't been through phase 3 trials and hadn't demonstrated efficacy would have been disingenuous and probably counterproductive. I certainly would have placed less trust in them if there'd been attempts to convince me that they were something that they had not been scientifically proven to be (and it was by no means a foregone conclusion that they would be so effective).

But I trust them fully because of the processes have been followed and there hasn't been clear attempts to lie or mislead.

So no preparation work what so ever yes?
1 Year to get ready and nothing absolute nothing.

Can sir please step out the line and let then guy behind you take your place.

Klonker

Turtwig wrote: »

Expect so but hope they have identified what the risk factors are for this severe type of clotting event. The events reported in Norway are very abnormal. If there is a population more susceptible to these kind of adverse events we need to identify them as quickly as possible. If it's relevant they should avoid the vaccine, or mitigation strategies should be adopted to lower and monitor these groups overall risks.
The overall risk to the general population may remain largely unchanged. That will need to be emphasised if there are additional warnings applied to AZ.

Have they said if those 4 people in Norway who got the blood clots in the days after the vaccine if it was after their first or second doses?

robinph

Klonker wrote: »

Have they said if those 4 people in Norway who got the blood clots in the days after the vaccine if it was after their first or second doses?

Most likely to be first dose once you add in the delays in reporting and spotting the cases there wouldn't have been time for 2 doses to happen.

Pete_Cavan

brickster69 wrote: »

None really. You honestly believe that ?

Giving AZ to over 70s doesn't increase the number of vaccines available, it simply shifts around who gets what but within the same overall number.

Most countries vaccinated health care works and nursing home staff in parallel with older people to reduce absenteeism and try help prevent them spreading it around. The older people got Pfizer/Moderna while the HCWs and staff got AZ. Giving AZ to older people as well would mean giving Pfizer/Moderna to HCWs and staff (reducing the amount of it available to older people), or just not vaccinating the HCWs and staff until all older people have been vaccinated, which also has consequences too.

You can argue that older people should have been given all available doses but when vaccinating different groups in parallel, not giving over 70s AZ made little or no different because the AZ just went to the parallel groups instead.

Supplies of Pfizer have been good and reliable which helps with the logistics of getting it out there. I'm sure there are also benefits to having GPs using one vaccine, instead of administering two with very different waits between doses.

RavenBea17b

Just read a post on twitter vacciworld account.
It mentions EMA director we are worried that 'European States' suspensions of AZ vaccine will have an effect on trust in the vaccine.
EMA Director - we have received reports of thromboembolic events for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, but the focus is on the AZ vaccine.

EMA pharmacovigilance expert :the numbers of post-vaccination thromboembolic events are much lower, much lower than what you'd expect to see in the general population.

My query then is, if there are thrombosis events across ALL currently approved vaccines and there ARE why not pause for all vaccine types. study the data, study the circumstances etc. Review the variables.

Monster249

Can someone explain the logic of us keeping the AZ vaccine on the shelf despite the EMA declaring the benefits outweigh the potential side effects?