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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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Strazdas

I've seen some people argue that the AZ suspension will increase vaccine hesitancy, but if anything it should reassure people that the health authorities are proceeding sensibly.

Trying to cover everything up and going "Blood clots? What blood clots?" would be more likely to make people wary of the vaccine. Being very open about what you are doing seems a good idea.

NeuralNetwork

Goldengirl wrote: »

And since when are NIAC answerable to MRHA ?

It's not other than in the arrogant world of Brexit politics, I would assume.

They're responding because the Irish regulator moving like this probably carries a lot more weight in UK media than it happening "on the continent" and you will have people raising questions, particularly in Northern Ireland.

Goldengirl

Turtwig wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance.
Why is this directed at the Irish Authorities? They're not alone in this action.

And since when are NIAC answerable to MRHA ?

I can't understand this deifying of the UK response.

NeuralNetwork

Turtwig wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance.
Why is this directed at the Irish Authorities? They're not alone in this action.

I would assume it's because if the Irish Authorities have suspended the vaccine pending clarification of what's going on, it will have hit the headlines in the UK (which it has) and there will be an element of scepticism about the UK policy from some people.

All I would say is that if it's a specific batch or a specific plant that's being called into question (and as yet we don't really know that in terms of public information) that the UK supply line may be entirely different.

As far as I can see, the EU supply chain is provided from different stock to the UK supply line.

It's worth remembering that these are biologics products and unlike a traditional pharmaceutical made from chemicals, even where exactly the same steps are followed in production, you can get slightly unexpected outcomes. That's why those plants take so long to get up and running in normal circumstances.

There's also a whole load of contract manufacturing going on to produce this, so there's a possibility that it's confined to a single plant or even a single batch, rather than something fundamental abut the product.

We'll know on Monday as more information emerges on what they're actually looking at.

[Deleted User]

Turtwig wrote: »

Why wouldn't your gp record you're a diabetic?

Why would he?
It's barely a disease when the treatment is to eat properly. Having it recorded is a black mark that I don't want and has no benefit (til now :pac:) and just downsides in the future for life insurance, certain health insurances etc. If I lose weight it'll go away and be like nothing ever happened.

Turtwig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Like I said though, I'm not sure what my BMI was when I was last at the GP. He's also pointed out that I'm almost certainly diabetic but there's no point in him recording it as all it'll do is **** me down the line.
Gonna spend this week seeing about registering at an NI address and see how I get on. Better than waiting around for naval gazers to get the finger out.

Why wouldn't your gp record you're a diabetic?

Turtwig

User142 wrote: »

Because the North asked MHRA to weigh in based on the Republic suspending use. The guidance they got today is to continue use.

Cheers,
Thanks.

Kermit.de.frog

hmmm wrote: »

MHRA not impressed
"MHRA response to Irish authorities’ action to temporarily suspend the AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mhra-response-to-irish-authorities-action-to-temporarily-suspend-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine

Now they have to send one out for the Dutch.

[Deleted User]

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Sorry for The Journal being the reference I'm sending you to, but my own GP also said they would be passing information on to vaccination clinics when asked for it over the coming weeks

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/reader-qa-3-5379665-Mar2021/%3famp=1

HSE CEO Paul Reid has said due to the very high risk conditions captured in the recommendation from NIAC, it is assumed that the majority of the most at risk will be under the care or treatment of hospitals.

From initial feedback from the hospitals and community services, the HSE estimates there are around 150,000 people in this group.

Hospital groups have been asked to identify the relative populations based on definitions provided and they will then contact them. There will also be some input at a later stage from GPs, where patients are not in regular contact with a hospital, such as those with certain categories of diabetes.

Like I said though, I'm not sure what my BMI was when I was last at the GP. He's also pointed out that I'm almost certainly diabetic but there's no point in him recording it as all it'll do is **** me down the line.
Gonna spend this week seeing about registering at an NI address and see how I get on. Better than waiting around for naval gazers to get the finger out.

Kermit.de.frog

Netherlands have suspended AZ until at least 29th of March.

User142

Turtwig wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance.
Why is this directed at the Irish Authorities? They're not alone in this action.

Because the North asked MHRA to weigh in based on the Republic suspending use. The guidance they got today is to continue use.

ACitizenErased

The Dutch have followed us with the “precautionary principle”

Turtwig

hmmm wrote: »

MHRA not impressed
"MHRA response to Irish authorities’ action to temporarily suspend the AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mhra-response-to-irish-authorities-action-to-temporarily-suspend-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine

Pardon my ignorance.
Why is this directed at the Irish Authorities? They're not alone in this action.

Cork2021

hmmm wrote: »

MHRA not impressed
"MHRA response to Irish authorities’ action to temporarily suspend the AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mhra-response-to-irish-authorities-action-to-temporarily-suspend-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine

They’re 100% correct! I said it earlier Norway have previous with the Pfizer vaccine! They’ve overreacted before and this time it’s spread!

Dressoutlet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But GPs aren't involved in the referrals, it's hospitals only.
Unless there's a central database containing the entire country's medical records which is updated regularly.

Sorry for The Journal being the reference I'm sending you to, but my own GP also said they would be passing information on to vaccination clinics when asked for it over the coming weeks

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/reader-qa-3-5379665-Mar2021/%3famp=1

HSE CEO Paul Reid has said due to the very high risk conditions captured in the recommendation from NIAC, it is assumed that the majority of the most at risk will be under the care or treatment of hospitals.

From initial feedback from the hospitals and community services, the HSE estimates there are around 150,000 people in this group.

Hospital groups have been asked to identify the relative populations based on definitions provided and they will then contact them. There will also be some input at a later stage from GPs, where patients are not in regular contact with a hospital, such as those with certain categories of diabetes.

[Deleted User]

Dressoutlet wrote: »

With all due respect, is your GP in the country? Mines in Dublin and everything is computerised. My GP told me if she typed in age 85 all her patients aged 85 would list, so bmi 40 all the patients of the bmi would come up.

But GPs aren't involved in the referrals, it's hospitals only.
Unless there's a central database containing the entire country's medical records which is updated regularly.

hmmm

MHRA not impressed
"MHRA response to Irish authorities’ action to temporarily suspend the AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mhra-response-to-irish-authorities-action-to-temporarily-suspend-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine

Nqp15hhu

We are continuing with this vaccine in Northern Ireland! Thank god!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56391818

Dressoutlet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is pretty much what I'm getting at.
The last time I would have been weighed my BMI wasn't over 40. So if I make an appointment just so my GP to weight me then that "data" will get me into Group 4? You all have an awful lot more faith in the health service than I have.

With all due respect, is your GP in the country? Mines in Dublin and everything is computerised. My GP told me if she typed in age 85 all her patients aged 85 would list, so bmi 40 all the patients of the bmi would come up.

Dressoutlet

Van.Bosch wrote: »

In your first example, is it possible someone with BMI over 40 hasn’t been to hospital? If so I would think that’s where the GP referral comes in?

Thats for referral, The poster was asking who decides who is more high risk.
Yes GPs will refer these patients at a later stage of group 4. And with all due respect, if a person has a bmi of over 40, let's say with 0 other comorbodities, and has not been hospitalised then they are less of a priority than someone with the same bmi who has been hospitalised due to their weight or other issues linked to their weight.

[Deleted User]

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If a person has a medical condition like that, their care is being managed by a hospital specialist, not their GP. It would be totally wrong for the GP to be involved.

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Oh dear
The data the determines who is high and therefore eligible in each group for the vaccine queue, is not done by the GPs. It's done based on hospital admissions and deaths that are all recorded. The GP doesn't say I think my asthmatic patient is high risk. NPHET look at the hospital admissions and deaths and the criteria of the patients. This is the data.

Example.
Data shows a person with a bmi greater than 40, is more likely to have severe illness or die from covid. So group 4 for them.
Data shows a person with a bmi below 40 but greater than 35, still get quite sick but at a lesser rate, so group 7.
Data.

Van.Bosch wrote: »

In your first example, is it possible someone with BMI over 40 hasn’t been to hospital? If so I would think that’s where the GP referral comes in?

This is pretty much what I'm getting at.
The last time I would have been weighed my BMI wasn't over 40. So if I make an appointment just so my GP to weight me then that "data" will get me into Group 4? You all have an awful lot more faith in the health service than I have.

imacman

With all this coverage of astrazeneca issues Moderna seems to forgotten. I saw on the news Moderna has only provided 3.2% of the total amount so far .According to the app that's just 19,000 of the over 600,000 doses distributed.And thats is for a vaccine approved in late December. Why aren't we getting more Moderna vaccines in and why isn't this been talked about more in the media

Wolf359f

rm212 wrote: »

The EU haven’t recommended suspension. This is an Irish decision (and some other countries who have taken their own decision). EMA recommended to continue using the vaccine.

I never said the EU/EMA had suspended it.
I mean the majority of doses given so far in the EU have been Pfizer. It's easy than listing all the counties who have suspended it and then saying the majority of doses in those countries was Pfizer.

Stheno

Van.Bosch wrote: »

In your first example, is it possible someone with BMI over 40 hasn’t been to hospital? If so I would think that’s where the GP referral comes in?

My mother would fit in that category

Miike

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Sorry, what does this mean? Digitized and categorized?

Yeah, I think the system is called HIPE. Its basically ICD10 AM coding

Van.Bosch

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Oh dear
The data the determines who is high and therefore eligible in each group for the vaccine queue, is not done by the GPs. It's done based on hospital admissions and deaths that are all recorded. The GP doesn't say I think my asthmatic patient is high risk. NPHET look at the hospital admissions and deaths and the criteria of the patients. This is the data.

Example.
Data shows a person with a bmi greater than 40, is more likely to have severe illness or die from covid. So group 4 for them.
Data shows a person with a bmi below 40 but greater than 35, still get quite sick but at a lesser rate, so group 7.
Data.

In your first example, is it possible someone with BMI over 40 hasn’t been to hospital? If so I would think that’s where the GP referral comes in?

rm212

Wolf359f wrote: »

The EU have used more Pfizer than AZ, so they have a baseline vs unvaccinated and vaccinated with Pfizer to compare it to. I'm not up on the whole thing, but they must be seeing something with AZ that they are not seeing with Pfizer or the frequency is alot higher than in the Pfizer group/unvaccinated group.

The EU haven’t recommended suspension. This is an Irish decision (and some other countries who have taken their own decision). EMA recommended to continue using the vaccine.

Wolf359f

rm212 wrote: »

Yet another mistake in our vaccination roll out. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see from our neighbours across the pond that the vaccine is safe, 11 million people with their first dose and nothing out of the ordinary.

If they halt vaccines every single time there are a couple of serious illnesses after taking it, they’ll never get through the programme. People are going to get sick for normal reasons, unrelated to the vaccine, after taking the vaccine. We don’t have the luxury of being incredibly, excessively cautious like this right now.

The EU have used more Pfizer than AZ, so they have a baseline vs unvaccinated and vaccinated with Pfizer to compare it to. I'm not up on the whole thing, but they must be seeing something with AZ that they are not seeing with Pfizer or the frequency is alot higher than in the Pfizer group/unvaccinated group.

Goldengirl

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Sorry, what does this mean? Digitized and categorized?

A big yellow sticker on a chart

Or digitised and coded depending where you are and what hospital , sorry don't mean to be flip .

Goldengirl

rm212 wrote: »

Of which I was one, unfortunately. Was due to get it tomorrow and just got a text today saying it was cancelled and I’ll be contacted again in future.

Ahh sorry to hear that . You should be top of the list when restarted or get one of the others whichever comes first .
That is rough alright .