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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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Scuid Mhór

Cork2021 wrote: »

Good thread here again. Like a few have said, AZ offered to me in the morning I’d be there in a flash!

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1371158484113371143?s=21

I understand this so I'm not particularly worried. If anything it just means countries can stockpile AZ/O until it is given the clear and then they can do mass vaccinations with it. But how long does it usually to take to determine causal links or not?

funnydoggy

eagle eye wrote: »

What difference would it make to you getting it now? You still have to wear a mask, social distance, follow lockdown rules.

It's the thought that they're about to get a high level of protection, and that they're out the other side of the tunnel. More will join them as time goes by but it must feel amazing knowing you're shielded PLUS you're on the home stretch

Stheno

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I understand this so I'm not particularly worried. If anything it just means countries can stockpile AZ/O until it is given the clear and then they can do mass vaccinations with it. But how long does it usually to take to determine causal links or not?

NIAC said earlier it should be clear in a week

[Deleted User]

eagle eye wrote: »

What difference would it make to you getting it now? You still have to wear a mask, social distance, follow lockdown rules.

My parents will also be vaccinated and we'll be fine with taking the vanishingly small chance that 1) I didn't have a full-on immune response, 2) I then caught the virus, 3) it multiplied enough without giving me symptoms to make me infectious and 4) that they also didn't get a proper immune response from the vaccine and will catch it.

Give each of those a 1-in-5 chance and you've a 1-in-625 chance. We'll take it.

*EDIT* I'd also get a few weekends in the UK in over the summer. They'll be flying by May and I wouldn't be surprised if their re-opening schedule is brought forward a few times.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I understand this so I'm not particularly worried. If anything it just means countries can stockpile AZ/O until it is given the clear and then they can do mass vaccinations with it. But how long does it usually to take to determine causal links or not?

Are we definitely getting AZ deliveries into the country while the suspension is on going?

Russman

eagle eye wrote: »

What difference would it make to you getting it now? You still have to wear a mask, social distance, follow lockdown rules.

I’d feel like I’m way less likely to catch this disease and that I’m less likely to pass it to my elderly parents. Tbh mask wearing in the supermarket doesn’t really bother me at this stage. All in all I’d feel like we’re on the home stretch.

Dr. Em

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As I've seen said elsewhere I assume they'll be stopping the dispensary of the contraceptive pill and implants from tomorrow morning as well?

No, but the stroke risk of contraceptives is clearly listed in the information leaflet and GPs prescribe progesterone-only or non-hormonal contraceptives to women with an elevated stroke risk.
I fully expect them to continue with Astra-Zeneca after a review, but the temporary suspension should seen as a very reassuring that they take safely concerns seriously. If there is causation rather than coincidence, a thorough review of the data should help identify at-risk groups who perhaps should not be given the jab.
The data coming out of India should be especially helpful.

Sweet.Science

ACitizenErased wrote: »

“I think neither are a risk to me”
When people want to talk about COVID in such a selfish manner they’re a certain type of person

What the hell are you talking about ? I'm not stopping other people taking it .

Bubbaclaus

Sweet.Science wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about ? I'm not stopping other people taking it .

I think the point is that if too many people share the same view, then suddenly we do not have enough people vaccinated to reach herd immunity, and covid will keep circling and picking off some of the vulnerable in society on an ongoing basis.

Marhay70

ACitizenErased wrote: »

“I think neither are a risk to me”
When people want to talk about COVID in such a selfish manner they’re a certain type of person

Nothing the poster said struck me as untoward, this development has unsettled a lot of people who are maybe not as convinced by the direction things are taking as the rest of us. It's perfectly all right for them to express that opinion in a pro vaccine thread IMO, without being labelled "one of them", whatever that is.

Tommo 76

Their rollout plan is a bit confusing also. The difference between group 4 or group 7 is that one group is very high risk the other high risk. But who decides what risk? For example take an asthmatic between 18-64, if your asthma isn’t deemed severe enough or is milder then do you fall into group 14 which is 18-54 who didn’t have access in previous groups with non asthmatics? Maybe I’m reading the whole thing wrong!!

ACitizenErased

Sweet.Science wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about ? I'm not stopping other people taking it .

The vaccine isn't for protecting you, contrary to belief.

Sweet.Science

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The vaccine isn't for protecting you, contrary to belief.

I know that . I'm in the last cohort . I'll be one of the last to be offered a vaccination . Anyone who was in anyway vulnerable will have already had one .

My vaccine will be to offer me protection if I want one . Which as things stand I won't take if it's AZ

Don't see what the huge issue is . It's my own decision .

Ive taken numerous vaccinations for travelling etc . I'm not some anti vax sort that you are insinuating

Goldengirl

Tommo 76 wrote: »

Their rollout plan is a bit confusing also. The difference between group 4 or group 7 is that one group is very high risk the other high risk. But who decides what risk? For example take an asthmatic between 18-64, if your asthma isn’t deemed severe enough or is milder then do you fall into group 14 which is 18-54 who didn’t have access in previous groups with non asthmatics? Maybe I’m reading the whole thing wrong!!

No confusion about those groups .. severe asthmatics are in group 7.
Detailed list of those affected in group 7 , on HSE.ie and as a general rule they would be those either requiring recent or repeated hospitalisation or severe enough to require regular steroid therapy , not including steroid inhalers.

odyssey06

Goldengirl wrote: »

No confusion about those groups .. asthmatics are in group 7.
Detailed list of those affected in group 4 , on HSE.ie and as a general rule they would be those either requiring recent or repeated hospitalisation or severe enough to require regular steroid therapy , not including steroid inhalers.

Only severe asthma is in group 7 ie
severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids)

Most asthmatics are in with general population for vaccines.

Goldengirl

odyssey06 wrote: »

Only severe asthma is in group 7 ie
severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids)

Most asthmatics are in with general population for vaccines.

Isn't that what I just said ?

Oh I see you are saying group 7 ..

Tommo 76

odyssey06 wrote: »

Only severe asthma is in group 7 ie
severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids)

Most asthmatics are in with general population for vaccines.

And that’s what I was wondering, thanks!

[Deleted User]

Tommo 76 wrote: »

Their rollout plan is a bit confusing also. The difference between group 4 or group 7 is that one group is very high risk the other high risk. But who decides what risk? For example take an asthmatic between 18-64, if your asthma isn’t deemed severe enough or is milder then do you fall into group 14 which is 18-54 who didn’t have access in previous groups with non asthmatics? Maybe I’m reading the whole thing wrong!!

I have asthma and am obese. GP office let me know it's not their problem. Still have no idea who I'm meant to contact. Though that's probably be design since there's no ****in supply. It's a mess really. My mother who's getting cancer treatment got her first dose the other day (then today is worried again) but my dad is 65, multiple heart attacks before, stents, COPD, not a word to him. Uncle in his 70s gets dialysis, not a word.
*EDIT* I end up steroids at least yearly but haven't been in hospital for it for about 15 years so is that serious enough? Supposedly my weight is enough to be in group 4 but who the **** knows.

Dressoutlet

Tommo 76 wrote: »

Their rollout plan is a bit confusing also. The difference between group 4 or group 7 is that one group is very high risk the other high risk. But who decides what risk? For example take an asthmatic between 18-64, if your asthma isn’t deemed severe enough or is milder then do you fall into group 14 which is 18-54 who didn’t have access in previous groups with non asthmatics? Maybe I’m reading the whole thing wrong!!

It's not a person that decides what risk.
It's data.
Most asthmatics are in with the general public because they haven't been dying/being hospitalised at a large rate.
I know this is Internet chat but I know of 5 asthmatics who had covid, 2 of them I would say have bad asthma, neither of them had symptoms, the other 3 mild cases.
Data is what makes these decisions.

Tommo 76

Dressoutlet wrote: »

It's not a person that decides what risk.
It's data.
Most asthmatics are in with the general public because they haven't been dying/being hospitalised at a large rate.
I know this is Internet chat but I know of 5 asthmatics who had covid, 2 of them I would say have bad asthma, neither of them had symptoms, the other 3 mild cases.
Data is what makes these decisions.

Thanks, that’s what I was wondering. Wasn’t sure if it was thrown at the gp’s to decide or what happened. Good to know that it didn’t affect them too badly though.

[Deleted User]

Dressoutlet wrote: »

It's not a person that decides what risk.
It's data.
Most asthmatics are in with the general public because they haven't been dying/being hospitalised at a large rate.
I know this is Internet chat but I know of 5 asthmatics who had covid, 2 of them I would say have bad asthma, neither of them had symptoms, the other 3 mild cases.
Data is what makes these decisions.

What data? Where is the data coming from? Who is processing the data?
There's no database of everyone's weight. There's no database of who has asthma. Yet GPs (the people who would have the most access to such data, even if out of date for many people) aren't part of processing the magical data.

Goldengirl

odyssey06 wrote: »

Only severe asthma is in group 7 ie
severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids)

Most asthmatics are in with general population for vaccines.

Those with mild asthma yes . Group 7 for others as you say.
There are those with severe asthma in group 4 on a case by case basis referred by their consultant if very brittle asthma .

Bubbaclaus

All GPs know is that they are currently doing Group 3 vaccinations. Anyone calling them expecting them to have inside secrets of how further groups will be done and when, are just wasting their own time and the time of GP practices. They have no insider information.

[Deleted User]

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

All GPs know is that they are currently doing Group 3 vaccinations. Anyone calling them expecting them to have inside secrets of how further groups will be done and when, are just wasting their own time and the time of GP practices. They have no insider information.

There's part of the email I got from my GP. It's not about "insider information", it's about clarity. The fact that GPs are being left out of it is pretty mental IMO.

Bubbaclaus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's part of the email I got from my GP. It's not about "insider information", it's about clarity. The fact that GPs are being left out of it is pretty mental IMO.

Thats publicly available information. Hospitals are getting the very high risk patients from their data.

My point is that GPs don't have any additional information besides what is already out there in the public domain, so it is pointless contacting them about vaccines unless you are in Group 3.

[Deleted User]

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Thats publicly available information. Hospitals are getting the very high risk patients from their data.

My point is that GPs don't have any additional information besides what is already out there in the public domain, so it is pointless contacting them about vaccines unless you are in Group 3.

Where are the hospitals getting their information from? Will they be going through the medical records of 3 million+ people to identify them?

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's part of the email I got from my GP. It's not about "insider information", it's about clarity. The fact that GPs are being left out of it is pretty mental IMO.

If a person has a medical condition like that, their care is being managed by a hospital specialist, not their GP. It would be totally wrong for the GP to be involved.

Miike

Deleted User wrote: »

Where are the hospitals getting their information from? Will they be going through the medical records of 3 million+ people to identify them?

Records are coded.

Dressoutlet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What data? Where is the data coming from? Who is processing the data?
There's no database of everyone's weight. There's no database of who has asthma. Yet GPs (the people who would have the most access to such data, even if out of date for many people) aren't part of processing the magical data.

Oh dear
The data the determines who is high and therefore eligible in each group for the vaccine queue, is not done by the GPs. It's done based on hospital admissions and deaths that are all recorded. The GP doesn't say I think my asthmatic patient is high risk. NPHET look at the hospital admissions and deaths and the criteria of the patients. This is the data.

Example.
Data shows a person with a bmi greater than 40, is more likely to have severe illness or die from covid. So group 4 for them.
Data shows a person with a bmi below 40 but greater than 35, still get quite sick but at a lesser rate, so group 7.
Data.

Goldengirl

Miike wrote: »

Records are coded.

+1 .
Those with recent hospitalisation or severe disease will be flagged and contacted .
There are very few people being looked after by GPs at home who do not fall into one of the earlier groups , either through age or vulnerability .
If someone has severe disease but is not being looked after by either hospital or GP for that condition, it would be unlikely that they will be in group 4 for a start , and if they are in group 7 they would have to be undergoing regular and current treatment .