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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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lbj666

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Layman's prediction:
Norway cases were healthcare workers. They've previously had COVID and didn't know. Antibodies into overdrive caused clot.

That's wouldn't be a dismissive outcome, that would be pretty serious.

Sweet.Science

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Layman's prediction:
Norway cases were healthcare workers. They've previously had COVID and didn't know. Antibodies into overdrive caused clot.

That would probably be the worst case scenario

coconnellz

My blood is boiling this vacination program is a truly a mess getting worse by the day my other half works in a nursing home, they we're sent 4 boxs of vaccines, there was a mix up between nursing homes, They tried for days to contact the hse no answer, there still sitting there and all expired, the hse should be held accountable but they won't of course. ****ing scandal !!

lbj666

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

I am so tired of the constant smears against the AZ vaccine. Every week there is something
Moderna never met their targets- no mention of that in the media but it’s constant with the AZ vaccine
If it is true that 15 people suffered a pulmonary embolism after the Pfizer vaccine and 13 after the AZ vaccine then why isn’t the Pfizer Vaccine being pulled as well?

Because of a higher than normal concentration of serious cases among a cluster of young people in Norway, if the 4 incidences followed the same broad pattern elsewhere for AZ or other vacines there wouldn't be an issue.

[Deleted User]

astrofool wrote: »

No, it means when something looks odd that doesn't match existing data, investigate that oddness.

Your statement was hyperbole of the most stupendous kind! (see what I did there).

Everyone else: it's fine
Ireland: nah let's dick about and delay and make people worry over nothing.

Same seen with the stillbirth nonsense. Nowhere else around the world has seen it but our authorities know best and will stoke panic.

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

Everyone else: it's fine
Ireland: nah let's dick about and delay and make people worry over nothing.

Same seen with the stillbirth nonsense. Nowhere else around the world has seen it but our authorities know best and will stoke panic.

Why do our authorities want to stoke panic?

lbj666

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everyone else: it's fine
Ireland: nah let's sick about and make people worry over nothing.

Same seen with the stillbirth nonsense. Nowhere else around the world has seen it but our authorities know best and will stoke panic.

Ireland were about to commence administering it to a very high risk cohort.

Wolf359f

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everyone else: it's fine
Ireland: nah let's dick about and delay and make people worry over nothing.

Same seen with the stillbirth nonsense. Nowhere else around the world has seen it but our authorities know best and will stoke panic.

You make it sound like Ireland is the only country pausing the vaccinations with AZ.

timsey tiger

lbj666 wrote: »

It's a bit more complicated than that. It's the higher than normal in a specific cluster found and their young age that's the concern.

Fair enough, but if you take thousands of clusters, some will be above average, take enough and you'll expect some to be well above average. Indeed if none are reported you should suspect your data.

is_that_so

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

I am so tired of the constant smears against the AZ vaccine. Every week there is something
Moderna never met their targets- no mention of that in the media but it’s constant with the AZ vaccine
If it is true that 15 people suffered a pulmonary embolism after the Pfizer vaccine and 13 after the AZ vaccine then why isn’t the Pfizer Vaccine being pulled as a precaution as well?

Moderna are a part of the Warp Speed project in the US and can't supply in large quantities until they fulfil their obligation to the US. This has been known for months.

AZ agreed targets, missed them, missed them some more and may miss future targets. Meanwhile they apparently have a plant in Holland with supplies but no EMA paperwork.

This has nothing to do with any of that, it's a pause to look at the potential causes of an issue which may be of concern with their vaccine. It's not the first such pause with a vaccine and probably won't be the last.

Monster249

Wolf359f wrote: »

You make it sound like Ireland is the only country pausing the vaccinations with AZ.

The major countries administering the highest number of AZ vaccines haven't stopped. Any rational person would assume we've overreacted as usual.

Wolf359f

Monster249 wrote: »

The major countries administering the highest number of AZ vaccines haven't stopped. Any rational person would assume we've overreacted as usual.

What major counties are they out of interest?
Maybe they haven't seen the same issues as have been seen in the EU? Different supply chains worldwide so if one area is seeing issues it could be down to the supply chain. Like previously where some counties in the EU stopped using a certain batch number.

lbj666

Monster249 wrote: »

The major countries administering the highest number of AZ vaccines haven't stopped. Any rational person would assume we've overreacted as usual.

They were about commence on people with it who have very serious underlying illness such as neurological diseases, the cases in Norway had blood clots in their brain. Can people not see why there should be caution no matter how extreme it seems.

astrofool

Yevon wrote: »

My mother (63 and on immunosuppressant) got the call Friday that her Vaccine would be Monday morning. Got a call today to say it was cancelled due to the AZ news.

I'm confused, I thought everyone in the new Cohort 4 was getting Pfizer/Moderna, or did that change?

AZ was being used for under 70's, and was one of the reasons group 4 was started early (as AZ wasn't being used on the over 70's)

timsey tiger wrote: »

Fair enough, but if you take thousands of clusters, some will be above average, take enough and you'll expect some to be well above average. Indeed if none are reported you should suspect your data.

Exactly, but when you see an anomaly that causes a severe reaction, you pause and investigate, this is mostly likely an anomaly, but we don't know it's an anomaly yet.

Monster249 wrote: »

The major countries administering the highest number of AZ vaccines haven't stopped. Any rational person would assume we've overreacted as usual.

We're not among the first countries to pause the rollout, and won't be the last until the investigation is completed.

Water John

lbj666 wrote: »

They were about commence on people with it who have very serious underlying illness such as neurological diseases, the cases in Norway had blood clots in their brain. Can people not see why there should be caution no matter how extreme it seems.

Yes, an abundance of caution is correct, considering the cohort who were to receive it.

NeuralNetwork

quartz1 wrote: »

I wish it were true but it smells like pure propaganda. The EU Politicians are going to experience a lot of anger as the US and UK steam through their.programmes and we are left here like listening to excuses and spin.

Neither Iceland nor Norway are in the EU.

Wolf359f

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Neither Iceland nor Norway are in the EU.

And neither is Thailand!

ACitizenErased

lbj666 wrote: »

That's wouldn't be a dismissive outcome, that would be pretty serious.

Don't think so. Suggests the half dose regimen may be the most suitable rather than full dose.

hynesie08

coconnellz wrote: »

My blood is boiling this vacination program is a truly a mess getting worse by the day my other half works in a nursing home, they we're sent 4 boxs of vaccines, there was a mix up between nursing homes, They tried for days to contact the hse no answer, there still sitting there and all expired, the hse should be held accountable but they won't of course. ****ing scandal !!

Why didn't they refrigerate them?

Wolf359f

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Don't think so. Suggests the half dose regimen may be the most suitable rather than full dose.

If that was the case, it would certainly have to go back to trials with people with antibodies.

coconnellz

hynesie08 wrote: »

Why didn't they refrigerate them?

Yeah They did but nobody came to pick them up they rang and rang

Wolf359f

Yevon wrote: »

The government website says that "anyone 16-69 at mRNA vaccines should be preferentially given to those aged 16-69 years at very high or high risk who have certain medical conditions which may limit their immune response to the vaccine"

I don't care which one she gets as long as she gets it fast, just wondering why this advice isn't being implemented.

I think that's about certain conditions that mean the body's immune response hinders it making the antibodies, so for them, mRNA would be best.
It's not the 16-69 very high risk cohort, it's actually a subset of that group.

It's similar to people who can't take live vaccines due to their immune system.

User142

coconnellz wrote: »

My blood is boiling this vacination program is a truly a mess getting worse by the day my other half works in a nursing home, they we're sent 4 boxs of vaccines, there was a mix up between nursing homes, They tried for days to contact the hse no answer, there still sitting there and all expired, the hse should be held accountable but they won't of course. ****ing scandal !!

Fair play to the nursing home just letting them expire.

NeuralNetwork

Wolf359f wrote: »

And neither is Thailand!

Don’t worry though. The British angle will be about an EU conspiracy theory against good old British products (almost certainly made in the EU), due to a national Brexit psychosis and thinking the world revolves around tabloid headlines in newspapers few have ever heard of.

They won’t let little details like irrefutable facts about geography or that the data and alert came from non EU sources get in the way.

They also need something on Monday to deflect from negative PR due to the Met’s handling of that vigil in London. So expect maximum outrage on Monday.

Harry Palmr

coconnellz wrote: »

My blood is boiling this vacination program is a truly a mess getting worse by the day my other half works in a nursing home, they we're sent 4 boxs of vaccines, there was a mix up between nursing homes, They tried for days to contact the hse no answer, there still sitting there and all expired, the hse should be held accountable but they won't of course. ****ing scandal !!

This is no criticism of the home but I'd have hit the phone assuming the boxes had another homes name on them and arrange a pick up so it didn't go to waste.

Turtwig

Wolf359f wrote: »

I think that's about certain conditions that mean the body's immune response hinders it making the antibodies, so for them, mRNA would be best.
It's not the 16-69 very high risk cohort, it's actually a subset of that group.

It's similar to people who can't take live vaccines due to their immune system.

Yep pretty much this. Individuals with various immune disorders or deficiencies, or on certain immune modulating therapies may not get the desired response to the vaccines. In this regard, the MRNA vaccine is recommended because it's believed they give these individuals the highest possible chance of a successful response.

The safety profile is somewhat different. For the viral vectors vaccines and the MRNA the individuals mentioned above could generally regard the vaccines as safe. A conventional 'live' vaccine may actually not be safe for these same individuals.

Morries Wigs

Cork2021 wrote: »

Anti vax crowd will be like they’ve taken a million viagra pills! They’ll all love this.
Guess who’ll be **** to this news our Zero Covid Elites! Staines, McDonkey, Ryan and Killeen all organising their Microsoft teams orgy

jaysus :pac:

Stark

Cork2021 wrote: »

Anti vax crowd will be like they’ve taken a million viagra pills! They’ll all love this.
Guess who’ll be **** to this news our Zero Covid Elites! Staines, McDonkey, Ryan and Killeen all organising their Microsoft teams orgy

Unfortunately true. I saw Staines gloating with delight on Twitter last week because a few nursing home residents died from Covid a couple of days after getting their first vaccine dose. Like "hooray, the vaccines don't work, we'll need to do ZeroCovid instead".

Ted_YNWA

Stark wrote: »

Unfortunately true. I saw Staines gloating with delight on Twitter last week because a few nursing home residents died from Covid a couple of days after getting their first vaccine dose. Like "hooray, the vaccines don't work, we'll need to do ZeroCovid instead".

Mod

If it is on Twitter, it should be easy to prove.

Otherwise it is trolling to claim anyone is gloating over people dying.

Which is it?

Marhay70

One thing I haven't seen is how long after vaccination the blood clots are appearing. Is it similar time frames in all the patients or do they vary wildly?