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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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is_that_so

Gael23 wrote: »

The contracts states the amount to be supplied but it doesn’t specify anything about when they will be supplied, that’s the problem.
To be honest at this point Vin Der Leyen has some explaining to do

AZ have shafted us on deliveries over the last four weeks, that's not about the initial contracts. Best effort is starting to look like they just picked random bodies to run their production line.

Pete_Cavan

Aegir wrote: »

and why, pray tell, do you think the EU wanted that for the initial doses, but were happy for future doses to include UK plants?

The initial doses are the full 300m ordered, further doses are the 100m optional doses. It is for AZ to fulfill the order they signed up to, whereverthe doses come from. AZ even sent a few million doses produced in the EU to the UK, the first deliveries the UK got, contributing to their EU deficit. They were apparently unable to replace them with UK produced doses.

Tippbhoy1

Aegir wrote: »

it wasn't to the detriment of everyone else, the AZ vaccine is being made all over the world. millions of doses have already been delivered to African countries via Covax.

Why did the EU contract specifically state that the initial doses should be made in the EU, but after that, they could come from the EU or the UK?

Because they knew that the factories in the UK, the ones set up by the UK government, were committed to delivering their UK orders first.

Read section 5.4 of the contract for yourself and note EU included UK.

brickster69

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The EU contract doesn't specifically state that the initial doses should be made in the EU. That clause mentions best efforts, a phrase which apparently makes delivery targets null and void yet is very specific when it suits your argument. Then when it came to AZ failing to meet Q2 deliveries by 50%, they said they could supply from elsewhere, basically saying the exact opposite of their excuse for Q1 underperformance.

The contract never mentions best efforts it mentions " reasonable best efforts " which means try it's best.

Page 41 of the contract clearly states the delivery is an estimation not a guarantee and monthly doses are subject to approval. So the first two dates get pushed back because approval was not granted until the end of January.

https://www.rai.it/dl/doc/2021/02/19/1613725900577_AZ_FIRMATO_REPORT.pdf

Gael23

The contracts states the amount to be supplied but it doesn’t specify anything about when they will be supplied, that’s the problem.
To be honest at this point Vin Der Leyen has some explaining to do

[Deleted User]

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The EU contract doesn't specifically state that the initial doses should be made in the EU. That clause mentions best efforts.

and why, pray tell, do you think the EU wanted that for the initial doses, but were happy for future doses to include UK plants?

Pete_Cavan

Aegir wrote: »

it wasn't to the detriment of everyone else, the AZ vaccine is being made all over the world. millions of doses have already been delivered to African countries via Covax.

Why did the EU contract specifically state that the initial doses should be made in the EU, but after that, they could come from the EU or the UK?

Because they knew that the factories in the UK, the ones set up by the UK government, were committed to delivering their UK orders first.

The EU contract doesn't specifically state that the initial doses should be made in the EU. That clause mentions best efforts, a phrase which apparently makes delivery targets null and void yet is very specific when it suits your argument. Then when it came to AZ failing to meet Q2 deliveries by 50%, they said they could supply from elsewhere, basically saying the exact opposite of their excuse for Q1 underperformance.

brickster69

Goldengirl wrote: »

Appears it is one particular batch under investigation .

I wonder where it was made ?

josip

mvl wrote: »

just looking at article below, from other sources seems there are 9 EU countries pausing it -
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/11/denmark-pauses-astrazeneca-vaccines-to-investigate-blood-clot-reports

I can't help but think that this is effectively the end of the AZ vaccine being a significant player in the EU program.
Although these pauses are purely precautionary and caused by a single batch, everything about AZ in the media is negative recently.
Will France and Germany now be able to convince their populations that the AZ vaccine is safe and it's something they should want ?
AZ are unlikely to deliver any meaningful numbers for the next 2 months, by which time there will be other options.

[Deleted User]

average_runner wrote: »

See Switzerland bought an extra 3 millions does of Pfizer, doubling their original order to six million, delivery in stages from April!!

What have we done, nothing!!!

Is this the Switzerland that have pretty much the exact same amount of vaccines delivered as we have by population and is the the Pfizer that the EU have orders in for 600 million, over 6 million of which Ireland are entitled to, which we are getting in stages?

Goldengirl

mvl wrote: »

just looking at article below, from other sources seems there are 9 EU countries pausing it -
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/11/denmark-pauses-astrazeneca-vaccines-to-investigate-blood-clot-reports

Appears it is one particular batch under investigation .

mvl

just looking at article below, from other sources seems there are 9 EU countries pausing it -
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/11/denmark-pauses-astrazeneca-vaccines-to-investigate-blood-clot-reports

stephenjmcd

average_runner wrote: »

So they are able to pay more, get a better delivery than the EU can!!

If so, the EU is pointless!!!

Wait what ?? The EU has hundreds of millions on order with Pfizer who are delivering as expected. Not sure what your definition of better delivery is.

is_that_so

average_runner wrote: »

So they are able to pay more, get a better delivery than the EU can!!

If so, the EU is pointless!!!

They have a population smaller than Austria! EU is all for one!

average_runner

hynesie08 wrote: »

A single market country not in the EU with one of the wealthiest populations on the planet........

Fair comparison.

So they are able to pay more, get a better delivery than the EU can!!

If so, the EU is pointless!!!

is_that_so

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Astrazeneca commitment as of this morning is 377,000 by end of quarter

Did they check a dictionary before using that word?!

[Deleted User]

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

What you refer to as "securing vaccine supply" is what many consider to be vaccine nationalism. In "securing" their supply, the UK did so to the detriment of everyone else. The EU simply wanted to buy vaccines but not to the detriment of anyone else. If the UK had secured supplies ahead of all others, AZ should have informed the EU, the contract specifically says AZ have no commitments which would impede them supplying the EU.

it wasn't to the detriment of everyone else, the AZ vaccine is being made all over the world. millions of doses have already been delivered to African countries via Covax.

Why did the EU contract specifically state that the initial doses should be made in the EU, but after that, they could come from the EU or the UK?

Because they knew that the factories in the UK, the ones set up by the UK government, were committed to delivering their UK orders first.

stephenjmcd

brickster69 wrote: »

Biden can't help with EU supply

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/exclusive-eu-told-to-expect-no-astrazeneca-vaccines-from-us-in-near-future--sources-2444144

Not sure how accurate that article is tbh when it comes to Q2. There had been reports in the EU that AZ was cutting forecast by 50% for Q2. AZ came out not long after an said that wasn't the case with SII looking like supplying a decent number of the EU supply.

If they can deliver on Q2 who knows tbh, our own projections factor in an overall 60% cut.

We all knew though that neither UK or USA would be able to send additional doses, all well and good asking but look after your own first is what countries will be doing

brickster69

Biden can't help with EU supply

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/exclusive-eu-told-to-expect-no-astrazeneca-vaccines-from-us-in-near-future--sources-2444144

hynesie08

average_runner wrote: »

See Switzerland bought an extra 3 millions does of Pfizer, doubling their original order to six million, delivery in stages from April!!

What have we done, nothing!!!

A single market country not in the EU with one of the wealthiest populations on the planet........

Fair comparison.

average_runner

See Switzerland bought an extra 3 millions does of Pfizer, doubling their original order to six million, delivery in stages from April!!

What have we done, nothing!!!

Pete_Cavan

Aegir wrote: »

Nothing hypocritical about it at all.

The UK did a much better job of securing vaccine supply for it's citizens than the EU did.

Mainly because the UK treated this like a start up company, the EU trated it as an opportunity for a few politicians to be heros.

What you refer to as "securing vaccine supply" is what many consider to be vaccine nationalism. In "securing" their supply, the UK did so to the detriment of everyone else. The EU simply wanted to buy vaccines but not to the detriment of anyone else. If the UK had secured supplies ahead of all others, AZ should have informed the EU, the contract specifically says AZ have no commitments which would impede them supplying the EU.

stephenjmcd

EMA Update on AstraZeneca

https://twitter.com/F2Bruxelles/status/1370038404537278467?s=19

30 cases from 5 million vacinations as of yesterday, not outside what would be expected in general population. EMA reviewing all cases but no issue with vacinations continuing

jackryan34

Apogee wrote: »

Reid: All over 70s first dose by mid-April. Second dose by mid-May.

One we pass mid-May, hospitals should be completely out of danger then.

That age group is responsible for 60% of hospitalisations

JTMan

Interesting FT article here (paywall) on the latest on the GSK Covid treatment which shows ‘profound efficacy’.

- Clinical trial results showed an 85 per cent reduction in hospitalisation or death.
- GSK and Vir will seek emergency use authorisation from the US “immediately” as well as approvals in other countries.
- The drug is currently administered intravenously but developers are looking to create a formulation that could be given by intramuscular injection.

Anyone know is GSK are applying for EMA approval?

Apogee

Reid: All over 70s first dose by mid-April. Second dose by mid-May.

[Deleted User]

josip wrote: »

Are there any more details than 600k in Q2 ?
eg. on what date do they expect to make the first shipment?
And how frequently after that?
In the absence of any breakdown, I would worry that it will only arrive in June, after the US has been fully vaccinated.

No delivery schedule has been provided to the EU yet.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/eu-drug-regulator-is-said-to-recommend-j-j-vaccine-for-bloc

Apogee

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there any word on when the online booking system will be launched for non-healthcare workers?

Reid mentioned April in the briefing. They've integrated the portal with GP IT systems, but not for pharmacists as pharmacists don't have a unified IT system.

[Deleted User]

Is there any word on when the online booking system will be launched for non-healthcare workers?

josip

Champagne Sally wrote: »

It is indeed great news, does anyone have the figures to hand of the number of doses we are expecting from Johnson & Johnson and when?

Edit: It's okay, I found them in the original article. 600k doses in Q2.

Are there any more details than 600k in Q2 ?
eg. on what date do they expect to make the first shipment?
And how frequently after that?
In the absence of any breakdown, I would worry that it will only arrive in June, after the US has been fully vaccinated.