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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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[Deleted User]

stephenjmcd wrote: »

That's sort of the point being made, the vast majority of pharmaceutical / medical companies in Ireland use their Irish plants to manufacture medical devices etc not vaccines. Pfizer do have some vaccine production capacity in Ireland but not at the scale required for production of covid vaccine.

Although Pharma companies make medical devices also so its not really a different industry. It all comes under pharmaceutical / medical production but its two completely different set ups in terms of factory set up etc.

Pfizer couldn't turn around tomorrow and change their Irish production to covid vaccines for example, it just wouldn't be possible

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The majority of pharma/medical companies in Ireland develop medical devices, lab equipment or general medicines like paracetemol, viagra, etc.

Not really

There are a large numbers of pharmaceutical manufacturers in Ireland, manufacturing many many different pharmaceutical products, these include Jannsen (J&J), Pfizer, GSK, Novartis, Sanofi, Regeneron and many more.

Medical device manufacturers include Medtronic, Depuy(J&J), Boston Scientific, Stryker, Abbot and myriad of others.

The only companies who have significant presence in both areas would be J&J and to a lesser extent Abbot, who I believe split into Abbvie for their pharma division.

When we talk about pharma in Ireland it’s the first group and not the second we are referring to. When we include the Med device companies we talk about Medtech, however they are two separate industries in essence. They even have different regulations to a large extent.

There are a large number of pharmaceutical products produced in Ireland outside of Panadol, Viagra or Botox, these are just the blockbusters with name recognition and high volume. Just have a look at the Jansen website alone to see the list of products with Irish involvement

https://www.janssen.com/ireland/products.

I am not sure would we have much spare fill and finish type capacity that is making up much of the current constraints however. Maybe in the veterinary end of the pharma industry here.

And requalifying a Pfizer plant for example to manufacture vaccine would likely take years. The best role Irish pharma can play in the vaccine manufacturing is around supply chain and in maintaining supplies of the products we do manufacture which are needed and possibly taking up the slack for other sites more directly involved in vaccines. I personally know someone in Novartis Ireland directly involved in the supply chain management around vaccines even though there will not be any physical production in Ireland.

RavenBea17b

astrofool wrote: »

Effectively an export ban, no vaccines being exported, while greedily taking in EU and India produced vaccine.

Should the EU just make enough to supply itself and stop exports to the UK?

There isn't an export ban in the UK. What they did do however is ensure their supply - investing in the manufacture, fill processes - buying 18 months worth of glass vials etc plus spread their options in many vaccine baskets early. I think I saw an article on sky news Australia mentioning Britain helping them secure doses after Italy block on AZ set of doses.
Yes, the UK is also going to India to get doses- and why not ?
Ireland can do exactly the same - if it chose to.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6237682836001
UK also donating to COVAX.
The UK supplies materials for the Pfizer vaccine produced in EU, for EU and UK.
They are also paying for vaccines made, in EU and India. The EC simply didn't act quickly enough at the start of all this, the business continuity plans for shortfalls of vaccines failing trials and so changing timelines (such as Sanofi), for late and late again delivery of approved vaccines (AZ) and revised number Pfizer. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, we are where we are. Lets hope that Q" is better.

In addition, I saw some data that shows France projected supply for April shows a decrease from earlier (last week revised projection) - this weeks update vs last week expected plan for April.
AZ -8%
Pfizer -25%
Moderna - 47%
J & J -63%. r and Moderna.

Now in all this sorry and serious situation those are some of the positive things the UK has done. Many other things have been woeful.

[Deleted User]

political analyst wrote: »

If the numbers of cases drop far enough by April then we probably will be opening up before June. Mandatory mask-wearing will continue probably until Autumn at the very least.

Why would the government want to keep businesses closed longer than necessary? Do people think that the government wants to destroy the economy?!

At this point their conservatism indicates either incompetence or malice.
The death toll for under 65s is below 200 in a year. Once the 65+ are done we'll be down to single digit deaths weekly and getting properly into the summer when the seasonality with also represses it. Over 65s and vulnerable should be done by the end of April (if they ever get the vaccines they're meant to) so just open up. Not this nonsense of 3 weeks at each level, the danger will be gone so ****ing get on with it.

political analyst

Deleted User wrote: »

The vaccine acquisition has been pathetic but it shouldn't matter as much as it likely will. Once all the 65+ and vulnerable have had their first shot we should be opening up rapidly. The mere possibility of high case numbers in young people will be used as an excuse for excessive caution unfortunately.

If the numbers of cases drop far enough by April then we probably will be opening up before June. Mandatory mask-wearing will continue probably until Autumn at the very least.

Why would the government want to keep businesses closed longer than necessary? Do people think that the government wants to destroy the economy?!

astrofool

brickster69 wrote: »

Losing the plot now. Does he not understand the UK has no vaccine export ban. They just make enough to supply itself

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1369398650946850822

Effectively an export ban, no vaccines being exported, while greedily taking in EU and India produced vaccine.

Should the EU just make enough to supply itself and stop exports to the UK?

NeuralNetwork

stephenjmcd wrote: »

That's sort of the point being made, the vast majority of pharmaceutical companies in Ireland use their Irish plants to manufacture medical devices etc not vaccines. Pfizer have some vaccine production capacity in Ireland but not at the scale required for production of covid vaccine.

Although Pharma companies make medical devices so its not really a different industry. It all comes under pharmaceutical production but its two completely different set ups in terms of factory set up etc

Pharmaceutical companies in Ireland oddly enough make pharmaceuticals. We’ve a significant number of large biopharma facilities here but none of them are involved in these vaccines at the moment. That could potentially change, particularly when it comes to fill and finish.

Medical device companies make medical devices. The only example of a company that’s operating in all 3 areas is J&J.

brickster69

Losing the plot now. Does he not understand the UK has no vaccine export ban. They just make enough to supply itself

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1369398650946850822

[Deleted User]

The vaccine acquisition has been pathetic but it shouldn't matter as much as it likely will. Once all the 65+ and vulnerable have had their first shot we should be opening up rapidly. The mere possibility of high case numbers in young people will be used as an excuse for excessive caution unfortunately.

eastie17

Despite my best instincts I ended up watching the 9 o'clock news.
As predicted by some they have somehow managed to continue a narrative of unending misery.

The reality

Numbers of infected, in hospital and in ICU continue to drop significantly
People continue to be vaccinated, over 500K shots administered, most of our over 85s completed and all medical front line workers meaning our hospitals and nursing homes are now much safer
All primary school children back to school next week
Leaving certs half way through their second week back
Extremely high chance that other elements of life will open up after April 5th

And the narrative from RTE is 10 minutes of negative leaning hyperbolic statements about the Government being "under pressure", "failure" "behind schedule" "scrambling", "17 delays to the program" etc etc.
And the reason for this - they might have only delivered 1.1Million vaccines by the end of March instead of the forecasted 1.2Million.

We went through an almost completely open summer period last year with no major negative impacts without anyone vaccinated. There is no reason we cant do the same this year, except the difference this time is that every day that goes by more and more people are being protected from the disease.
RTE need phycological help and they are doing their best to infect the rest of the country with their misery narrative.

ACitizenErased

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Pharma and Medical Devices are 2 completely different industries.

The majority of pharma/medical companies in Ireland develop medical devices, lab equipment or general medicines like paracetemol, viagra, etc.

josip

My mother (84) and her sister (75) both got appointments for next Tuesday.

stephenjmcd

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Pharma and Medical Devices are 2 completely different industries.

That's sort of the point being made, the vast majority of pharmaceutical / medical companies in Ireland use their Irish plants to manufacture medical devices etc not vaccines. Pfizer do have some vaccine production capacity in Ireland but not at the scale required for production of covid vaccine.

Although Pharma companies make medical devices also so its not really a different industry. It all comes under pharmaceutical / medical production but its two completely different set ups in terms of factory set up etc.

Pfizer couldn't turn around tomorrow and change their Irish production to covid vaccines for example, it just wouldn't be possible

theoneeyedman

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Pharma production here is mainly medical devices. It just wouldn't be possible in a short time frame to switch production to vaccine production. Its highly specialised.

As for get more aggressive, with whom & do what ?

Pharma and Medical Devices are 2 completely different industries.

brickster69

timsey tiger wrote: »

They could have slapped export bans in place including on ingredients. You know hard ball.

You do realize that the Pfizer vaccine ingredients are supplied from many non EU countries don't you.

Tippbhoy1

CruelSummer wrote: »

Would Ireland have any influence with the US and pharma groups here? We seriously need to get more aggressive about this. We’ve a small population compared to other countries.

No influence whatsoever. We are a tiny nation on the world stage. We need to move on as a nation wasting time talking about all these supposed solutions and get behind the plan. Lads talking about booting up plants in Ireland etc are fooling themselves, this is not making cans of coke. We need to focus on how quickly we can administer the vaccines once the supply ramps up, and how quickly we can get people back to work, that’s where the energy should be spent.

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

Would Ireland have any influence with the US and pharma groups here? We seriously need to get more aggressive about this. We’ve a small population compared to other countries.

Pharma production here is mainly medical devices. It just wouldn't be possible in a short time frame to switch production to vaccine production. Its highly specialised.

As for get more aggressive, with whom & do what ?

CruelSummer

quartz1 wrote: »

Reuters published an article a few weeks ago that J&J were planning to export vaccine manufactured in the EU to the US to be bottled. It just seems that the EU have been asleep at the wheel with this process. The Irish Government need to at least make an effort to source vaccine outside of the EU deal. Tonight's RTE News showing pallets of Sputnik been delivered to Hungary and the Czech Republic. It wouldn't be my first choice but based on the expert opinion I would happily take my chances with it .

Would Ireland have any influence with the US and pharma groups here? We seriously need to get more aggressive about this. We’ve a small population compared to other countries.

astrofool

quartz1 wrote: »

Reuters published an article a few weeks ago that J&J were planning to export vaccine manufactured in the EU to the US to be bottled.

This has been known for a while and only represents some of the supply for the EU. If the US embargo the vaccine, then they'll stop sending it over for fill & finish and use EU plants (albeit at a slower rate while manufacturing scales up).

political analyst wrote: »

How can any CF sufferer not be regarded as a severe case?

Because not all CF cases are the same and might only be mildly effected.

daydorunrun

We should be doing antibody testing before vaccinations to spread out the positive impact of the slow roll out.

political analyst

lucernarian wrote: »

If you looked at the rte article and the categorization you posted, you would see that not all CF sufferers are regarded as severe cases.

How can any CF sufferer not be regarded as a severe case?

quartz1

Reuters published an article a few weeks ago that J&J were planning to export vaccine manufactured in the EU to the US to be bottled. It just seems that the EU have been asleep at the wheel with this process. The Irish Government need to at least make an effort to source vaccine outside of the EU deal. Tonight's RTE News showing pallets of Sputnik been delivered to Hungary and the Czech Republic. It wouldn't be my first choice but based on the expert opinion I would happily take my chances with it .

Slinky94

This news about a vaccine supply is just maddening now. Last week top 5 in Europe or whatever nonsense. Now the supply is getting less and less, yet yesterday there was a report that the immunity could be 6 months (if not longer). And here we are vaccinating people who caught Covid over Xmas or last month. I've no problem with frontline staff and every vulnerable person getting it if the they need it but it just seems like a waste of a vaccine at the start when our supply was obviously at critically low level.
Maybe someone has posted something similar already but if restrictions are going to be linked to vaccine numbers instead of case numbers this is just a farce.

seamusk84

It’s Paddy’s day next week. We will be the center of attention for 24 hours and although all the ministerial meetings of foreign heads of state will be virtual; It is an ideal opportunity to fish around for assistance outside of the EU for vaccine procurement.

MM better say something to Biden!

quartz1

Government seem to be failing to obtain a reliable supply of vaccine so i guess we need to send Bono off again to try fix it for us.

eoinbn

irishgeo wrote: »

What your solution rather than moan about it.

Pay the US company out of their contract, tap a European company to do it. It is really that simple.

Edit: There is no guarantee that fill and finish is the EU bottleneck but if the EU are worried about it there is a simple solution.

timsey tiger

Water John wrote: »

Sounds great, what happens when India and China who supply some of the ingredients, take your advice?

Yeah if they were going to do it they'd do it anyway, what would be their motivation?

timsey tiger

irishgeo wrote: »

What your solution rather than moan about it.

Ban exports, then only agree ingredient export if we get our proportion ordered back of completed vaccines. i.e. nobody gets any if we don't get ours, where ever we have control.

Water John

timsey tiger wrote: »

They could have slapped export bans in place including on ingredients. You know hard ball.

Sounds great, what happens when India and China who supply some of the ingredients, take your advice?

irishgeo

eoinbn wrote: »

They have been talking about trying to move more fill and finish to the EU for more than a month now. That is a month wasted. No doubt we will get another Q3 solution to a Q2 problem.

What your solution rather than moan about it.

timsey tiger

Wolf359f wrote: »

Maybe read the link and then comment on it?
The EU are looking to help J&J solve the issue.
Similar to Pfizer and then being able to reduce the plant shutdown from 4 weeks to 1 week in order to upscale.
AZ waited until a week before the delivery date to say the order will be massively reduced. Very little the EU could do at that stage.

They could have slapped export bans in place including on ingredients. You know hard ball.