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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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IRISHSPORTSGUY

Deleted User wrote: »

Stolen from another thread but looks like the UK have sourced 10m AZ doses from India.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/10-million-doses-from-india-wont-impact-poor-nations-vaccine-access-says-uk-221497#.YEOJe5OWBOQ.twitter

Not sure if they're pulling a bit of a stroke or not, but certainly a bit underhand considering Indian production was meant to be low or middle income countries.

They'll do whatever they can to meet vaccine targets it seems.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN2AT1J0

eoinbn

irishgeo wrote: »

Honestly when people get it into their heads we can't be speed it because we don't have any vaccines.

people bitching about we need to buy outside the EU deal. We need 8 million doses. That's a small city is some countries like Germany.

How much of a premium would we have to pay. There is no guarantee we would get our doses any quicker.

If we did that people would still bitching because we would be wasting money or why aren't we in the EU who are getting there first.

The 2nd doses need to be done sometime. Sure let's a variant in against a half vaccinated population. So it can learn to mutate against non fully vaccinated immune system. Then it's back to square 1.

That is economic thinking that has gotten the EU into this bind.
The cost premium would be insignificant in the greater scheme. We are paying about €4 for the two doses of AZ but we are paying GP's €60 to administer the doses. The vaccines are basically close enough to free at the current price. Even the more expensive vaccine aren't expensive when compared to the cost of lockdowns. Ireland is burning through €1.5bn a month.
If the EU made an investment of a fraction of that size into production for each of the chosen vaccines then we would likely be exporting vaccines by the summer and not begging developing countries to supply us with vaccines. We are a global laughing stock.

BlondeLou

Knex* wrote: »

So they're purely going on number of jabs in arms, not individuals with first or second dose? Seems a bit weird to have the vaccine as the primary entity, and not the human.

Now I'm confused If so, apologies SM. I'm off the mark it seems!

This confused me for a while but it’s of the 320K+ who received first vaccine, 140K+ of these have had their second vaccine.

Numbers from Wednesday.

[Deleted User]

Stolen from another thread but looks like the UK have sourced 10m AZ doses from India.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/10-million-doses-from-india-wont-impact-poor-nations-vaccine-access-says-uk-221497#.YEOJe5OWBOQ.twitter

Not sure if they're pulling a bit of a stroke or not, but certainly a bit underhand considering Indian production was meant to be low or middle income countries.

They'll do whatever they can to meet vaccine targets it seems.

cameramonkey

How come Micky Martin has more recent numbers for vaccinations than have been announced by the HSE? Is it a leak designed to give Mickeys poor poll ratings a boost. This information should not be used for political gain for one party it should be published by the relevant authorities.

i suppose he had to get the leak out before Leo.

CrabRevolution

irishgeo wrote: »

Honestly when people get it into their heads we can't be speed it because we don't have any vaccines.

people bitching about we need to buy outside the EU deal. We need 8 million doses. That's a small city is some countries like Germany.

How much of a premium would we have to pay. There is no guarantee we would get our doses any quicker.

If we did that people would still bitching because we would be wasting money or why aren't we in the EU who are getting there first.

The 2nd doses need to be done sometime. Sure let's a variant in against a half vaccinated population. So it can learn to mutate against non fully vaccinated immune system. Then it's back to square 1.

I don't think anyone is unaware that supply is the bottleneck anymore. They just want to criticise anyway.

eagle eye

astrofool wrote:

Such negativity.

Oh I see, if I'm willing to give away all my data to move up the list to get the vaxcine earlier I'm a positive person? Surely if I'm thinking that way I'm very negative as I'm rushing to get the jab?

astrofool

eagle eye wrote: »

No

Such negativity.

eagle eye

astrofool wrote:

To even start with 1, you're against vaccine passports, would you sell all your data for access to a vaccine a few months earlier?

Sweet.Science

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If it's happening it is extremely extremely rare and was related to the initial few week period where distributors were faced with 'use it or lose it' choices. However absent of proof I will very comfortably assume your post is a lie.

I have no reason to lie but fair enough

astrofool

eagle eye wrote: »

Such negativity.

That's a hugely naïve comment, I would have expected better, you can analyse each part and try to counter it, but my guess is there probably isn't a reasonable counter without going into whataboutery.

To even start with 1, you're against vaccine passports, would you sell all your data for access to a vaccine a few months earlier?

is_that_so

Danzy wrote: »

Is there a degree of vaccine skepticism in Europe.

There certainly is more than in the rest of the Western world.

While incompetency and bad planning are part of it, there is also a lethargy behind, what German Finance Minister Olaf Scholz has described as "a total shi7 show".

Bloomberg talking here about the EU vaccine passport issues.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-03/eu-vaccine-passports-for-travel-still-months-away-memo-shows

It's frankly amazing that an issue which concerns 10% of EU GDP, and is mostly hitting the countries still barely ahead of the debt curve from the great crash is not a done deal or at least already a project well in motion.

Countries need to have their own plans in place, if they depend on tourism, the Danish and Greeks are moving quickly here, 3 months will turn in to more with dispute, continual changes and arguing and corrections. Just in case this becomes nother shi7 show.

Concerning to see the UK variant at 40% of all cases in Germany now, hopefully they will not see a 3rd wave.

They appear to be seen as a quick solution to get some sectors and running, almost a desperation move. I can see the negative PCR/rapid test being a much more acceptable option for countries who want tourists this year. Not sure what the German Finance Minister thinks he has to offer and that type of tabloid nonsense says more about him. Countries being against the idea is neither news nor surprising. It's 27 countries and they have different views. The EU role in this is to facilitate a forum and to ensure that we don't end up with 27 sets of regulations. It will not be their fault if countries fail to come to agreement.

Knex*

Van.Bosch wrote: »

You were right originally, 500,000 doses in total isn’t 500,000 with first dose.

So they're purely going on number of jabs in arms, not individuals with first or second dose? Seems a bit weird to have the vaccine as the primary entity, and not the human.

Now I'm confused

If so, apologies SM. I'm off the mark it seems!

LuckyLloyd

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Couple beside me got their vaccines . Thought they would keep it to themselves

Father in law works in the HSE

How much is this happening out there ?

If it's happening it is extremely extremely rare and was related to the initial few week period where distributors were faced with 'use it or lose it' choices. However absent of proof I will very comfortably assume your post is a lie.

Van.Bosch

[Deleted User] wrote: »

your right, thanks for correction!

You were right originally, 500,000 doses in total isn’t 500,000 with first dose.

[Deleted User]

Knex* wrote: »

Think you have the numbers wrong there.

Its 500k have received their first vaccine. Of that 500k, 146k+ (this number is outdated) have received a 2nd dose.

The numbers from yesterday, before we hit the 500k mark, were:

‣ First dose: 328,598 (+12,542)
‣ Second dose: 146,047 (+1,466)
‣ Total: 474,645 (+14,008)

The first dose number isn't including the 146k who have already had the 2nd dose. But obviously to get a 2nd you've had to have had a 1st...

your right, thanks for correction!

Neamhshuntasach

Klonker wrote: »

I'm far from a supporter of the government during covid but I think the criticism received so far in terms of the rollout has been very very harsh, bordering on ridiculous. I'm not talking about getting the vaccines which is a separate and more of an EU issue but the actual roll out of vaccines we have received.

Batches received and expected to receive are changing all the time. Who can get what vaccine has changed and will possibly change again. A rollout this big is always going to cause some logistic problems and there will be even more when we ramp up to 1m doses a month. As long as we get more things right than wrong that's whats important. No country will have the perfect rollout.

Exactly. Our biggest issue is supply. It's hard to forecast when what is supposed to come each week keeps on varying. Of course that is going to cause some problems. In comparison to some other countries, the issues we have had are basically teething problems that will be ironed out. If we had a larger steady supply, I don't think they would even be picked up on. And to anyone who says we should have went at things outside the buying power of the EU, they have completely unrealistic expectations of what we would have ended up with. It would have been much less than what we have received already. And much less than what we will have coming over the remainder of the first half of this year.

Sweet.Science

Couple beside me got their vaccines . Thought they would keep it to themselves

Father in law works in the HSE

How much is this happening out there ?

Knex*

Deleted User wrote: »

146K of those are 2nd doses so we have just over 328K people in total vaccinated - out of a population of 5 million........and today is 6th March.
I sincerely hope this is speeded up - significantly.

Think you have the numbers wrong there.

Its 500k have received their first vaccine. Of that 500k, 146k+ (this number is outdated) have received a 2nd dose.

The numbers from yesterday, before we hit the 500k mark, were:

‣ First dose: 328,598 (+12,542)
‣ Second dose: 146,047 (+1,466)
‣ Total: 474,645 (+14,008)

The first dose number isn't including the 146k who have already had the 2nd dose. But obviously to get a 2nd you've had to have had a 1st...

irishgeo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

146K of those are 2nd doses so we have just over 328K people in total vaccinated - out of a population of 5 million........and today is 6th March.
I sincerely hope this is speeded up - significantly.

Honestly when people get it into their heads we can't be speed it because we don't have any vaccines.

people bitching about we need to buy outside the EU deal. We need 8 million doses. That's a small city is some countries like Germany.

How much of a premium would we have to pay. There is no guarantee we would get our doses any quicker.

If we did that people would still bitching because we would be wasting money or why aren't we in the EU who are getting there first.

The 2nd doses need to be done sometime. Sure let's a variant in against a half vaccinated population. So it can learn to mutate against non fully vaccinated immune system. Then it's back to square 1.

Russman

eoinbn wrote: »

Are they not given a time slot? Even though it is outside it doesn't seem wise to have hundreds to people standing together. There are figures out of Israel that suggest people are more likely to get covid soon after getting the vaccine. It could well be down to a change in behaviour but could also be the process of getting vaccinated that leads to getting covid.
Even ignoring covid it doesn't seem wise to have 80+ year olds standing around for hours in the cold.

Yep, he was given his slot at, I think it was 11.30am or something like that. I think there’s almost 50 booths there so you could have 45 people at 11.30 I guess.

eagle eye

Pete_Cavan wrote:

No it doesn't. By definition, very few countries can obtain vaccines on a similar level to Israel. There is a limited supply of vaccines at present. If Ireland had purchased outside the EU procurement, we would have been competing against much bigger countries or against the remainder of the EU. In either scenario, we are unlikely to have been able to secure more vaccines as we have no advantage in negotiations. If any EU country had obtained more than its per population proportion, that reduces the amount available to everyone else. To think larger EU countries which have been worse hit by the pandemic, or the entireremainder of EU, were just going to allow Ireland it alone and buy up vaccines which they could instead have for themselves is laughable.

Such negativity.

ACitizenErased

Deleted User wrote: »

146K of those are 2nd doses so we have just over 328K people in total vaccinated - out of a population of 5 million........and today is 6th March.
I sincerely hope this is speeded up - significantly.

Feel free to write a letter to the AstraZeneca CEO

[Deleted User]

ACitizenErased wrote: »

We've just crossed the 500k mark according to the Taoiseach on Twitter

146K of those are 2nd doses so we have just over 328K people in total vaccinated - out of a population of 5 million........and today is 6th March.
I sincerely hope this is speeded up - significantly.

MerlinSouthDub

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

No it doesn't. There is a limited supply of vaccines at present. If Ireland had purchased outside the EU procurement, we would have been competing against much bigger countries or against the remainder of the EU. In either scenario, we are unlikely to have been able to secure more vaccines as we have no advantage in negotiations.
If any EU country had obtained more than its per population proportion, that reduces the amount available to everyone else. To think larger EU countries which have been worse hit by the pandemic, or the entireremainder of EU, were just going to allow Ireland it alone and buy up vaccines which they could instead have for themselves is laughable.

Going off on our own could easily have gone horribly wrong and, most likely, we would have been in a worse situation.

With the great benefit of hindsight, what we *might* have been able to do is to jump in with the UK on their vaccine deals. The UK might have been amenable to this, because of Northern Ireland, the fact it wouldn't have materially impacted the UK's rollout and as another opportunity to stick two fingers to the EU.

We might even have been able to carry this with the EU without damaging our EU relationships, again because of Northern Ireland.

But, that's with hindsight, no one was suggesting this back last summer when the UK was doing their deals.

Tippbhoy1

Danzy wrote: »

I would get it, the data has been peer reviewed.

Given that the EU vaccination program has been described as "a total shi7 show" and "complete fiasco" by 2 of the most committed supporters of the EU project then yes, it is better to look at other options as well. Blind loyalty is only Jingoism and head bowing, its not a result.

The countries at the top of the European rollout have taken that approach.

When you are in a severe crisis and the person you are relying on keeps ducking up, then it is correct to have back up plans.

Look at the Danish and Greeks arranging their own Covid passport plans. Tourism is a mass employer in both, surprisingly nearly important in scale to both in employment.

Solidarity is a buzzword, now reduced to a dinner party cliché. There is no shame in getting the job done, saving lives and saving people's future economic well being.

It's a lack of enthusiasm or concern that has led to this. Though the EU has been severely embarrassed over the last 2 months and is pulling the finger out now

That pressure needs to be maintained so the Digital Passport doesn't miss the Summer.

What have digital passports got to do with vaccine procurement, I haven't commented on that and I don't see what that has to do with my point?

Blind Loyalty has got nothing to do with it. I don't believe we at this point in time have any better options available to us. I don't think we would get anything at speed from Russia or China, and the repercussions of it would be far reaching. You make it sound like there's a container sitting at the port ready to go into people's arms. As for getting something ourselves from the US companies, you are fooling yourself if you think that. We are in the middle of a major negotiation with the UK about the future of our island for potentially decades, if not more. The EU have supported us. Lads here like yourself are loosing their ****, if we were the second most vaccinated country in the world you'd still be giving out.

The EU "keep ducking up". I'd be interested in hearing all the examples of this and what should have happened instead?

Pete_Cavan

landofthetree wrote: »

Israel proves otherwise.

No it doesn't. By definition, very few countries can obtain vaccines on a similar level to Israel. There is a limited supply of vaccines at present. If Ireland had purchased outside the EU procurement, we would have been competing against much bigger countries or against the remainder of the EU. In either scenario, we are unlikely to have been able to secure more vaccines as we have no advantage in negotiations.
If any EU country had obtained more than its per population proportion, that reduces the amount available to everyone else. To think larger EU countries which have been worse hit by the pandemic, or the entireremainder of EU, were just going to allow Ireland it alone and buy up vaccines which they could instead have for themselves is laughable.

Tippbhoy1

landofthetree wrote: »

Israel proves otherwise.

Israel are leading the whole world. Is this the mentality we are dealing with, if Ireland doesn’t have the most vaccines of anywhere, we are doing ****.

Israel is a complete outlier, they are practically a military state. They have deep pockets and strong American support. They sold the data of all their citizens to support this. We couldn’t do that even if we wanted to.

Scuid Mhór

hynesie08 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1368159931023716356?s=20

One day at a time!

Tippbhoy1

brickster69 wrote: »

That is true, you can also be sure that those health ministers and staff had good working relationships with the companies involved and had concluded thousands of purchase agreements with them in the past. As well as understanding the complexities and delays that could happen. You just don't delegate a job so critical to people who have no experience in that sector.

There is currently a finite supply. Are you implying, if each country negotiated separately instead of the Eu, there would be more available to the countries within the block? How does that work?