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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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Tippbhoy1

Danzy wrote: »

Russia and China have both been prioritizing exports above their own. Soft power politics.

About 60% of Russians don't trust the Sputnik vaccine, pity given we now know it is safe. Mass Centres with vaccines in stock and empty all day.

That wouldn’t surprise me that they’re doing politics with it. Do you support Ireland sourcing vaccines from Russia? Should we abandon the solidarity of the EU and go with an every man for himself approach? And if every other EU country thinks the same, will we get the vaccines ahead of them eg Germany?

Didn’t realise that we now know Sputnik is safe, last I heard this week it was undergoing an EU review and it looked promising. If you could fly to Moscow and get it tomorrow, but if anything went wrong afterwards it was your problem, would you do it?

I wouldn’t, but I’d genuinely like to hear your view

brickster69

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

What about the UK and J&J, how’s that going?

Put it's orders in nice and early ( 30 mn ). Also helped with the various trials and development, so probably those things help in getting good and early access.

silverharp

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

That wouldn’t surprise me that they’re doing politics with it. Do you support Ireland sourcing vaccines from Russia? Should we abandon the solidarity of the EU and go with an every man for himself approach? And if every other EU country thinks the same, will we get the vaccines ahead of them eg Germany?

Didn’t realise that we now know Sputnik is safe, last I heard this week it was undergoing an EU review and it looked promising. If you could fly to Moscow and get it tomorrow, but if anything went wrong afterwards it was your problem, would you do it?

I wouldn’t, but I’d genuinely like to hear your view

there are a lot of disadvantages to being a small county, there are also positives and one of them is being able to duck and dive and box clever. Of course Ireland should do whatever it can to source its own supplies, we are a blip in the market and we cant be compromised by any protectionist shenanigans which could be happening in Germany for instance.

eagle eye

I'm for the vaccine but against vaccine passports.
I'm well overdue a holiday, was supposed to go for the full month of August last year but I'm certainly not providing a vaccine passport to go anywhere.
All this will do is open up another criminal enterprise which will be the production of fake vaccine passports.

It's also going to cost money and we've spent a lot during this pandemic already and spending it on some temporary document is a waste of money.
If you want to travel and somebody wants to stop you then either don't go or take a test when you get there and pay for it.

silverharp

good to see this

https://twitter.com/AndreasShrugged/status/1367906491425042435

User142

silverharp wrote: »

good to see this

https://twitter.com/AndreasShrugged/status/1367906491425042435

It would be fantastic if these could be rapidly rolled out to allow some semblance of normality to return as we await the vaccine rollout. Cheaper than a level 5 lockdown anyway.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

brickster69 wrote: »

Put it's orders in nice and early ( 30 mn ). Also helped with the various trials and development, so probably those things help in getting good and early access.

Apparently the UK don't start receiving doses of J&J until the second half of the year:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/janssen-publishes-positive-safety-and-efficacy-data-for-single-dose-covid-19-vaccine

Janssen today (29 January) published positive data from the phase 3 studies of its single-dose COVID-19 vaccine candidate, showing it to be 66% effective overall in preventing coronavirus in participants. The data did not report any significant safety concerns relating to the vaccine, with no serious adverse events in vaccine recipients.

The UK has secured 30 million doses of Janssen’s vaccine last summer, with deliveries expected to arrive in the second half of this year if approved for use by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), who will review and analyse the relevant data to see if the vaccine meets their strict standards of safety and effectiveness.

Although they are producing Novavax on Teesside which is due out in May.

Danzy

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

That wouldn’t surprise me that they’re doing politics with it. Do you support Ireland sourcing vaccines from Russia? Should we abandon the solidarity of the EU and go with an every man for himself approach? And if every other EU country thinks the same, will we get the vaccines ahead of them eg Germany?

Didn’t realise that we now know Sputnik is safe, last I heard this week it was undergoing an EU review and it looked promising. If you could fly to Moscow and get it tomorrow, but if anything went wrong afterwards it was your problem, would you do it?

I wouldn’t, but I’d genuinely like to hear your view

I would get it, the data has been peer reviewed.

Given that the EU vaccination program has been described as "a total shi7 show" and "complete fiasco" by 2 of the most committed supporters of the EU project then yes, it is better to look at other options as well. Blind loyalty is only Jingoism and head bowing, its not a result.

The countries at the top of the European rollout have taken that approach.

When you are in a severe crisis and the person you are relying on keeps ducking up, then it is correct to have back up plans.

Look at the Danish and Greeks arranging their own Covid passport plans. Tourism is a mass employer in both, surprisingly nearly important in scale to both in employment.

Solidarity is a buzzword, now reduced to a dinner party cliché. There is no shame in getting the job done, saving lives and saving people's future economic well being.

It's a lack of enthusiasm or concern that has led to this. Though the EU has been severely embarrassed over the last 2 months and is pulling the finger out now

That pressure needs to be maintained so the Digital Passport doesn't miss the Summer.

silverharp

User142 wrote: »

It would be fantastic if these could be rapidly rolled out to allow some semblance of normality to return as we await the vaccine rollout. Cheaper than a level 5 lockdown anyway.

its the most important question that the media and government should be commenting on everyday. I gather in the US there are 1$ strip tests being held up to the point that corruption seems like the only plausible explanation

hynesie08

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1368159931023716356?s=20

Sweet.Science

UK over 55s are now being asked to book their vaccine online

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

Danzy

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Apparently the UK don't start receiving doses of J&J until the second half of the year:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/janssen-publishes-positive-safety-and-efficacy-data-for-single-dose-covid-19-vaccine

Although they are producing Novavax on Teesside which is due out in May.

They will have offered all Adults there a vaccine by the End of July, possibly June. America will be done by then as well, hopefully they'll send the excess to the EU and across the world as quickly as it comes.

Stark

Wasn't there a HSE booking system meant to be going live in early March?

eoinbn

Kiith wrote: »

Ah jesus christ...plot our exit? You really have no idea what you are talking about if you think leaving the EU is the right move.

I don't want to derail the thread so I will keep it focused on the vaccine response.

I think the joint EU procurement was a good idea - mainly on the grounds of getting the vaccines to the people that need it the most. However the people in charge are clearly out of their depth.
Von der Leyen and Kyriakides need to be removed and replaced with people that can get things done. It was embarrassing listening to them in January repeatedly saying that AstraZeneca needed to honour the contract - the vaccines didn't exist - just insisting on it isn't going to make it happen. Since then they haven't announced a single EU funded initiative to accelerate the rollout. In the same time frame the US and UK have brought forward their vaccination timeline. Biden's admin was able to get Merck and J&J to work together to help get J&J back on track. The US government funded the cost. In the EU companies are expected to do this themselves and at their own expense hence why it has been so slow to happen and why it is going to take longer to come to fruition.

There are loads of examples of stupid decisions.

Why did the EU order only 200m from BioNtech and 80m from Moderna but 225m from Curevac when Curevac were 6-7 months behind in development? This isn't hindsight - we knew the state of play when the contracts were signed.

Why haven't the EU signed a deal with Novavax? We have been in negotiations since December. The UK signed a deal back in August. If we gave them €1b at that time to ramp up production then they would well have been ready to start supplying us in May/June with huge quantities(it is very easy to produce in huge quantities). If it didn't work out then it would cost us €2.50 per person. The EU has been unwillingly to take bets on companies even when the upside is huge and then down side is tiny. The US/UK have taken those bets and it is paying off.

When Sanofi delayed their vaccine we should have funded the switch to produce AZ/J&J. This is something I called for at the time. Sanofi and J&J have recently came to an agreement but again it is at their cost and won't start until the EMA give approval.

By the middle of this year the EU should have been providing vaccines to the world but instead we will looking at getting supplies from overseas.
Von der Leyen was the German defence minster - a position that she was deemed unfit for by many in Germany. She now is in charge of one of the most important initiatives that they EU has undertaken and we, and the world as whole, are suffering the consequences of it.

Danzy

Eddie Wilson, CEO of Ryanair, said on Pat Kenny, that an EU digital passport by this Summer is unrealistic.

Which doesn't come as a surprise.

Countries where Tourism is an essential industry need to do to plan for this themselves.

It just takes the will to do it.

Klonker

User142 wrote: »

It would be fantastic if these could be rapidly rolled out to allow some semblance of normality to return as we await the vaccine rollout. Cheaper than a level 5 lockdown anyway.

Tony H doesn't think they're accurate enough so don't expect to see them used here any time soon.

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/laurahogantv/status/1368166616488435713?s=21

Pete_Cavan

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm for the vaccine but against vaccine passports.
I'm well overdue a holiday, was supposed to go for the full month of August last year but I'm certainly not providing a vaccine passport to go anywhere.
All this will do is open up another criminal enterprise which will be the production of fake vaccine passports.

It's also going to cost money and we've spent a lot during this pandemic already and spending it on some temporary document is a waste of money.
If you want to travel and somebody wants to stop you then either don't go or take a test when you get there and pay for it.

You really have an innate ability to turn everything into a negative.

brickster69

Everyone made mistakes, but the real question should be who asked the EU to take over control of the negotiations and why ?

Everything was about to be agreed far earlier and has gone downhill from that point.

Pete_Cavan

brickster69 wrote: »

Everyone made mistakes, but the real question should be who asked the EU to take over control of the negotiations and why ?

Everything was about to be agreed far earlier and has gone downhill from that point.

Everything was about to be agreed by four countries. Thankfully that got widened out to the whole block or else we might not have even received one dose at this stage.

eoinbn

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Everything was about to be agreed by four countries. Thankfully that got widened out to the whole block or else we might not have even received one dose at this stage.

Not true. The 4 countries were ordering enough for the EU and EU countries could join at any time if they wished.

Russman

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/laurahogantv/status/1368166616488435713?s=21

Family friend is there this morning getting his jab, 81 years old and delighted with himself.

Pete_Cavan

eoinbn wrote: »

Not true. The 4 countries were ordering enough for the EU and EU countries could join at any time if they wished.

I know. AZ themselves even have a press release on their website from June when they confirmed the size of the order and that they were working towards fulfilling that. The point is that the contract signing in August is of little relevance to AZ's failure to deliver for the EU, as people like to make out.

eoinbn

Russman wrote: »

Family friend is there this morning getting his jab, 81 years old and delighted with himself.

Are they not given a time slot? Even though it is outside it doesn't seem wise to have hundreds to people standing together. There are figures out of Israel that suggest people are more likely to get covid soon after getting the vaccine. It could well be down to a change in behaviour but could also be the process of getting vaccinated that leads to getting covid.
Even ignoring covid it doesn't seem wise to have 80+ year olds standing around for hours in the cold.

brickster69

eoinbn wrote: »

Not true. The 4 countries were ordering enough for the EU and EU countries could join at any time if they wished.

That is true, you can also be sure that those health ministers and staff had good working relationships with the companies involved and had concluded thousands of purchase agreements with them in the past. As well as understanding the complexities and delays that could happen. You just don't delegate a job so critical to people who have no experience in that sector.

iamwhoiam

eoinbn wrote: »

Are they not given a time slot? Even though it is outside it doesn't seem wise to have hundreds to people standing together. There are figures out of Israel that suggest people are more likely to get covid soon after getting the vaccine. It could well be down to a change in behaviour but could also be the process of getting vaccinated that leads to getting covid.
Even ignoring covid it doesn't seem wise to have 80+ year olds standing around for hours in the cold.

I didnt see hundreds waiting in that video and nor did it say they were waiting around for hours ? It looked pretty swift moving to me ?

Crunchie77

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So has anyone from Cohort 4 got an appointment yet?

I’m in group 4 and my GP said we’ll all probably hear on the news or on Twitter before they find out anything. A few other people I follow haven’t heard anything either. My consultant is the same, couldn’t understand how they’re going to collate everyone on the hospital’s system as it’s completely manual and we don’t have digitised health files. My own file is purely paper and mostly handwritten.

With the uncertainty around AZ deliveries I wouldn’t be confident of many in cohort 4 getting vaccinated this week. It’s supposed to be 10000 out of approx 160000 though so hopefully they have that AZ ready to go and then AZ will sort out supply issues by end of March.

Danzy

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Everything was about to be agreed by four countries. Thankfully that got widened out to the whole block or else we might not have even received one dose at this stage.

This post is at levels of 1980s FF TDs defending Haughey.

We'll all celebrate the great success this evening.

We might not have received one vaccine, lol.

Why not stop beating the drum and waving the flag so hard, they made a bollox of it and when it became a global story that embarrassed them
they pulled the finger out, no shame in that.

Your spin is certainly one not heard before.

Da Boss would be proud.

Klonker

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/laurahogantv/status/1368166616488435713?s=21

I'm far from a supporter of the government during covid but I think the criticism received so far in terms of the rollout has been very very harsh, bordering on ridiculous. I'm not talking about getting the vaccines which is a separate and more of an EU issue but the actual roll out of vaccines we have received.

Batches received and expected to receive are changing all the time. Who can get what vaccine has changed and will possibly change again. A rollout this big is always going to cause some logistic problems and there will be even more when we ramp up to 1m doses a month. As long as we get more things right than wrong that's whats important. No country will have the perfect rollout.

Pete_Cavan

Danzy wrote: »

This post is at levels of 1980s FF TDs defending Haughey.

We'll all celebrate the great success this evening.

We might not have received one vaccine, lol.

Why not stop beating the drum and waving the flag so hard, they made a bollox of it and when it became a global story that embarrassed them
they pulled the finger out, no shame in that.

Your spin is certainly one not heard before.

Da Boss would be proud.

Were it a free-for-all with all EU countries competing against each other for vaccines, Ireland would almost certainly be well down the supply list. Without block buying, the bigger countries would be looking after themselves, to think otherwise would be naive.