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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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Wolf359f

ACitizenErased wrote: »

A large percentage of them likely belong to group 7 which is being accelerated so the point still stands

OP should change that to over 60's and 18-65 with underlying conditions. We're not there yet, so the talk of just opening up is very premature.

ACitizenErased

Wolf359f wrote: »

OP should change that to over 60's and 18-65 with underlying conditions. We're not there yet, so the talk of just opening up is very premature.

We should be planning for that now tbh

Turtwig

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I don't need to prove anything to you. You know very well that it likely has no impact on vaccines.

You stated someone lied. I agree McConkeys statement was on the face of it irresponsible. That's not my issue though. You stated he lied. That he stated something that he knew to be deliberately false. That is a very charged and biased statement. If you can't back it up?

ACitizenErased

Turtwig wrote: »

You stated someone lied. I agree McConkeys statement was on the face of it irresponsible. That's not my issue though. You stated he lied. That he stated something that he knew to be deliberately falae. That is a very charged and biased statement. If you can't back it up?

McConkey has been spouting lies since the beginning about how the virus is going to kill mass amounts of people etc etc and then today he stated the vaccine will not work against the variant. It is false, and he's qualified enough to know that it will. Hence, it's a lie.
I'm more than willing to debate whatever on here but defending McConkey is something I will not challenge as it speaks for itself, good evening.

DevilsHaircut

The amino acid mutation E484K contributes to immune escape.

It is found in B.1.351 (the 'South African variant'), P.1 and P.2 (the two 'Brazilian variants'), and some newer versions of B.117 (the UK variant).

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n359

https://covariants.org/variants/S.E484

ACitizenErased

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

The amino acid mutation E484K contributes to immune escape.

It is found in B.1.351 (the 'South African variant'), P.1 and P.2 (the two 'Brazilian variants'), and some newer versions of B.117 (the UK variant).

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n359

https://covariants.org/variants/S.E484

It's a good job the vaccines work against the South African and UK variants so.
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-retains-neutralizing-activity-against

DevilsHaircut

ACitizenErased wrote: »

It's a good job the vaccines work against the South African and UK variants so.
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-retains-neutralizing-activity-against

I depends what you mean by 'work'. The South Africans don't think that AstraZeneca 'works' well enough for them to bother using it.

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

It's a good job the vaccines work against the South African and UK variants so.
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-retains-neutralizing-activity-against

Cool, the link appears to be for the moderna vaccine, do you have one for the AZ one?

ACitizenErased

timsey tiger wrote: »

Cool, the link appears to be for the moderna vaccine, do you have one for the AZ one?

Yup.
100% effective against hospitalisation and death in an extremely limited South African trial.

"The newspaper said none of the more than 2,000 trial participants had been hospitalised or died."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/astrazeneca-vaccine-less-effective-against-south-african-variant-study-1.4478264

DevilsHaircut

ACitizenErased wrote: »

McConkey has been spouting lies since the beginning about how the virus is going to kill mass amounts of people etc etc

Does it still need to be pointed out that his, Professor Ferguson's and others' forecasts were for a situation with no mitigations?

Beasty

Threads merged

Wolf359f

ACitizenErased wrote: »

We should be planning for that now tbh

We could very well be. The delay in a roadmap may be down to getting definitive delivery schedules from vaccine manufacturers, so vaccine rollout would take precedence over case's etc...
I like to think that, but I've lost faith!

eoinbn

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yup.
100% effective against hospitalisation and death in an extremely limited South African trial.

"The newspaper said none of the more than 2,000 trial participants had been hospitalised or died."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/astrazeneca-vaccine-less-effective-against-south-african-variant-study-1.4478264

Half of the people in the trial got a placebo - i.e they weren't vaccinated. None of them were hospitalised or died either. So that trial doesn't tell us anything about how effective AZ is against serious illness.

Deeper Blue

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

The amino acid mutation E484K contributes to immune escape.

It is found in B.1.351 (the 'South African variant'), P.1 and P.2 (the two 'Brazilian variants'), and some newer versions of B.117 (the UK variant).

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n359

https://covariants.org/variants/S.E484

"may" and "could" are words that appear a lot in those links.

Meanwhile the actual evidence out there shows that the vaccines work on both of those to prevent hospitalisation and death at a minimum.

DevilsHaircut

El Sueño wrote: »

"may" and "could" are words that appear a lot in those links.

Meanwhile the actual evidence out there shows that the vaccines work on both of those to prevent hospitalisation and death at a minimum.

Which vaccines?

ACitizenErased

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Which vaccines?

Google it, you might learn something.
We get it, you love the ol' variants.

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/DonnellyStephen/status/1363562275899125763?s=20

Turtwig

ACitizenErased wrote: »

McConkey has been spouting lies since the beginning about how the virus is going to kill mass amounts of people etc etc and then today he stated the vaccine will not work against the variant. It is false, and he's qualified enough to know that it will. Hence, it's a lie.
I'm more than willing to debate whatever on here but defending McConkey is something I will not challenge as it speaks for itself, good evening.

A prediction where the assumptions being made and data being used are clearly outlined cannot be a lie. It may be a weak prediction. You cannot say it's a lie. They've basically explained the reasoning for their calculations. How can that be lying?

McConkey may have reasoning for why the vaccine doesn't work. He may be privvy to research we are not aware of. He may have misunderstood something. I think what he said was erroneous.

You though are stating he is lying. That is a emotionally charged statement. That you think it is an acceptable description for both his fatality scenario and variant remark is a little troubling.
You are implying someone is being deliberately deceitful. You need to firmly back that remark up.

DevilsHaircut

If the potential for vaccine escape wasn't an issue, these variants wouldn't be termed 'variants of concern'.

And the UK wouldn't be doing mass local testing whenever a single community case appears.

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1363505684613062657

DevilsHaircut

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Google it, you might learn something.
We get it, you love the ol' variants.

I'd love to have a Covid quiz with you sometime to see who's learnt the most, but unfortunately work wouldn't allow.

Micky 32

This thread has the same auld trend everytime. It’s so predictable. Whenever there’s valid great news discussed it upsets the lockdown foreva/misery merchants. It must be a real thorn in their side bursting their little pathetic bubbles they live in because they know the end is near and it’s going to make them less relevant on these threads. It usually takes a couple of hours for them desperately to try and come up with something to try and take peoples hope and optimism away. They obviously get a kick out of this or some sort of adrenaline rush when they click the post button. That’s the way it appears anyway….

But the only thing it comes back to and all they can use is “ oh the variants”

Current evidence suggests the vaccines work on all current variants at protecting against severe illness and death. There are numerous links posted back through the thread.

[Deleted User]

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

If the potential for vaccine escape wasn't an issue, these variants wouldn't be termed 'variants of concern'.

And the UK wouldn't be doing mass local testing whenever a single community case appears.

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1363505684613062657

They don’t want to risk it until they know for certain but the data is stacking up that at worse escapes if they occur will cause moderate illness at worst

[Deleted User]

Micky 32 wrote: »

This thread has the same auld trend everytime. It’s so predictable. Whenever there’s valid great news discussed it upsets the lockdown foreva/misery merchants. It must be a real thorn in their side bursting their little pathetic bubbles they live in because they know the end is near and it’s going to make them less relevant on these threads. It usually takes a couple of hours for them desperately to try and come up with something to try and take peoples hope and optimism away. They obviously get a kick out of this or some sort of adrenaline rush when the click the post button.

But the only thing it comes back to and all they can use is “ oh the variants”

Current evidence suggests the vaccines work on all current variants at protecting against severe illness and death. There are numerous links posted back through the thread.

The first part of your post is at odds with the reality that as many “let it rippers” as “lockdown merchants” spout the vaccine efficacy nonsense.

There is an unconscious bias in many posters that anyone who ever disagrees with them is “on the other side”. It is possible to agree with someone on one aspect of their views without sharing that entire view

dan786

Got the first dose of AstraZeneca today. Was told that the second can be anywhere between 6-12 weeks.

Micky 32

Deleted User wrote: »

The first part of your post is at odds with the reality that as many “let it rippers” as “lockdown merchants” spout the vaccine efficacy nonsense.

There is an unconscious bias in many posters that anyone who ever disagrees with them is “on the other side”. It is possible to agree with someone on one aspect of their views without sharing that entire view

My post was aimed at a selective few that i have made my conclusions about over time and not of the posters you are generally reffering to.

[Deleted User]

Micky 32 wrote: »

This thread has the same auld trend everytime. It’s so predictable. Whenever there’s valid great news discussed it upsets the lockdown foreva/misery merchants. It must be a real thorn in their side bursting their little pathetic bubbles they live in because they know the end is near and it’s going to make them less relevant on these threads. It usually takes a couple of hours for them desperately to try and come up with something to try and take peoples hope and optimism away. They obviously get a kick out of this or some sort of adrenaline rush when the click the post button.

But the only thing it comes back to and all they can use is “ oh the variants”

Current evidence suggests the vaccines work on all current variants at protecting against severe illness and death. There are numerous links posted back through the thread.

Dismissing anything you don't like or agree with as "misery merchants" is just as foolish as jumping to conclusions about reduced vaccine efficacy against variants.

The problem is the evidence of reduced efficacy (AZ, J & J and Novovax for SA variant) is weak but is based on real life studies in an environment where the variant was prevalent, so is of course worthy of discussion. All the studies that indicate they won't be ineffective are in vitro studies, which is not strong evidence either.

Now that is all separate from the question of preventing severe disease, which hopefully isn't at risk but surely at this point people have realised it is better to be overly cautious rather than foolishly optimistic?

The truth is we just don't know and won't know for some time. But dismissing the possibility is ridiculous.

ACitizenErased

dan786 wrote: »

Got the first dose of AstraZeneca today. Was told that the second can be anywhere between 6-12 weeks.

Congrats. Let us know what side effects are like!

hmmm

Public health and scientists need to do a better job communicating what the end-goal is to us in the public. We don't lock down forever in case we get an (inevitable) new variant of influenza, why the worry about Covid variants?

https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/1363557155840946182

ACitizenErased

hmmm wrote: »

Public health and scientists need to do a better job communicating what the end-goal is to us in the public. We don't lock down forever in case we get an (inevitable) new variant of influenza, why the worry about Covid variants?

https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/1363557155840946182

People have become obsessed with the idea of a 'case' even if said case means asymptomatic or mild illness. It's virtually a zero COVID philosophy.

Micky 32

hmmm wrote: »

Public health and scientists need to do a better job communicating what the end-goal is to us in the public. We don't lock down forever in case we get an (inevitable) new variant of influenza, why the worry about Covid variants?

https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/1363557155840946182

Exactly. I guess some people need something to go on about and variants are the flavour these days.