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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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Thread 2

No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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stephenjmcd

hmmm wrote: »

Interesting study results from Ischgl in Austria, which had one of the earliest and widest virus outbreaks in Europe.
https://tirol.orf.at/stories/3090797/

They tracked antibody levels in April and November, and there had been only a small decrease which is good news for long-term immunity.

They also did a T-cell study, and if I'm reading the translated quote below correctly they found T-cell responses even in those where the antibody detection had faded.

""A T-cell immune response could also be demonstrated in samples with hardly any or no longer detectable antibody titers, which underpins the role of cellular immunity after Covid-19," said von Laer. It cannot therefore be ruled out that immunity exists even if no more antibodies can be detected in the tests used."

Would seem to back up alot of virologists suggesting recently that it is indeed the T cell that will ultimately confer immunity not anti body's detected in the blood

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Not sure if anyone mentioned but Reid confirmed the public vaccine registration portal is launching early March

Must have missed that.

Good to hear

Hubertj

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/health-staff-say-they-are-getting-least-efficacious-vaccine-1.4488663?mode=amp

What do people make of this? What is the alternative?

DaSilva

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/health-staff-say-they-are-getting-least-efficacious-vaccine-1.4488663?mode=amp

What do people make of this? What is the alternative?

I think they are playing games pretending their concern is the delay between doses when really they just want the better vaccine

What arrangements have the HSE in place to accommodate the requests from health care workers for an alternative vaccine to AstraZeneca?

I remember getting roasted for suggesting I would prefer that my elderly family members get the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine. I'm personally happy to take whatever vaccine is available, but think it makes sense to give the at risk the better vaccines. I mean risk of serious disease by the way.

[Deleted User]

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/health-staff-say-they-are-getting-least-efficacious-vaccine-1.4488663?mode=amp

What do people make of this? What is the alternative?

Awkward one, I can see their point of view and a lot of these workers may have felt overlooked in the original rollout but AZ appears to offer full protection from severe disease, so their fears may be misplaced.

One thing I think should be looked at is giving previously infected health workers one dose of Pfizer, which appears to confer a high level of protection (same as getting two doses). Might save a few thousand doses.

They could also may be consider holding Pfizer/Moderna for health workers over a certain age or with a risk condition.

ACitizenErased

Why don't they just take what they get? It's a privilege to even get the vaccine. I'd take AZ no bother.

CrabRevolution

It's a bit like the vaccine priority list, every group reckons they should be moved up the list but never want to list what group they want to push down.

Similar with groups wanting the "best" vaccines. If everyone wants the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine, who gets the rest?

lbj666

Deleted User wrote: »

Awkward one, I can see their point of view and a lot of these workers may have felt overlooked in the original rollout but AZ appears to offer full protection from severe disease, so their fears may be misplaced.

One thing I think should be looked at is giving previously infected health workers one dose of Pfizer, which appears to confer a high level of protection (same as getting two doses). Might save a few thousand doses.

They could also may be consider holding Pfizer/Moderna for health workers over a certain age or with a risk condition.

The amount of healthcare worker who have died just doesn't compare to those who have over 70. Despite HCW representing 12.5% of all infections.

Granted the less efficacious vacine may lead to more cases of infection, transmission, lost man hours etc. and it is a bit harsh given other HCWs got the pfizer vacine, even those that really shouldnt have.

The would have been far greater arguments, if the data was there for over 65s for AZ and it was being rollout out to them but young HCW were getting pfizer just beacuse of logistics.

[Deleted User]

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/health-staff-say-they-are-getting-least-efficacious-vaccine-1.4488663?mode=amp

What do people make of this? What is the alternative?

Lets give the less effective vaccine to those most likely to suffer major illness then

ixoy

Yevon wrote: »

This needs to be slapped down by the HSE right away. It's an infuriatingly irresponsible message from the Unions and the HSE Management to come out and say that the AZ vaccine isn't good enough for their staff. This will seep into the public and cause confusion and worry.

Not only that, most of the answers to their questions are out there. Why aren't they all getting Pfizer? Because there's not enough of it and we need to get them vaccinated. What would they rather do - wait?
They also seem to imply AZ isn't good enough for them but that it is good enough for the elderly 65+ because of what WHO said.

Hubertj

Yevon wrote: »

This needs to be slapped down by the HSE right away. It's an infuriatingly irresponsible message from the Unions and the HSE Management to come out and say that the AZ vaccine isn't good enough for their staff. This will seep into the public and cause confusion and worry.

The vaccine works, the vaccine prevents severe cases, the vaccine prevents deaths. The best vaccine you can get is the one you can get the quickest.

This is my thinking too. While I understand HCWs concerns I think it is irresponsible to publicly state their preference for 1 over another. It could have a knock on effect in public confidence.

Van.Bosch

Hubertj wrote: »

This is my thinking too. While I understand HCWs concerns I think it is irresponsible to publicly state their preference for 1 over another. It could have a knock on effect in public confidence.

Give out what we have now. In Q4 if Pfizer is seen to be superior, buy another 10mln doses and top people up.

is_that_so

ixoy wrote: »

Not only that, most of the answers to their questions are out there. Why aren't they all getting Pfizer? Because there's not enough of it and we need to get them vaccinated. What would they rather do - wait?
They also seem to imply AZ isn't good enough for them but that it is good enough for the elderly 65+ because of what WHO said.

Notwithstanding the great work that has been done during the pandemic there has been some serious whingeing from the healthcare sector about the programme. Apart from looking petty and casting doubts on the credibility of the vaccinations, such demands also risk throwing the schedule out the window for everyone else.

Pete_Cavan

Policy should be take what you are offered or go to the back of the queue for your preferred vaccine and accept any consequences in the meantime.

embraer170

Quite a few medical staff in Germany simply refused the AZ vaccine. It was all over (legitimate) news sources in recent days.

Hearing that, normal people are showing up to vaccination centres and walking out when they find out they are meant to be getting the AZ vaccine. Some 700,000 of the vaccines are sitting in fridges across the country.

Not good for anyone. It may not be the best vaccine on the market, but it is better than no vaccine.

astrofool

CrabRevolution wrote: »

It's a bit like the vaccine priority list, every group reckons they should be moved up the list but never want to list what group they want to push down.

Similar with groups wanting the "best" vaccines. If everyone wants the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine, who gets the rest?

Worse when politicians start playing the bleeding heart *cough* Mary-Lou *cough*.

Marhay70

embraer170 wrote: »

Quite a few medical staff in Germany simply refused the AZ vaccine. It was all over (legitimate) news sources in recent days.

Hearing that, normal people are showing up to vaccination centres and walking out when they find out they are meant to be getting the AZ vaccine. Some 700,000 of the vaccines are sitting in fridges across the country.

Not good for anyone. It may not be the best vaccine on the market, but it is better than no vaccine.

The German government have only themselves to blame for this.

astrofool

Marhay70 wrote: »

The German government have only themselves to blame for this.

Funny they had the opposite problem in the UK, with people waiting for AZ when offered Pfizer, nationalism and idiocy go hand in hand.

[Deleted User]

With all the astrazenica dosing regime debate you can see why the EMA were waiting for further efficacy info off them back in Jan. Unfortunately many Joe Soaps will prefer another vaccine.

brickster69

Argentina approved AZ last week for use in all ages. 580K delivered yesterday with 1.2 million due in Q1.

stephenjmcd

Quite apt timing given that union statement today

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1362490286904082436?s=20

Mr.Wemmick

astrofool wrote: »

Funny they had the opposite problem in the UK, with people waiting for AZ when offered Pfizer, nationalism and idiocy go hand in hand.

I am in the UK and went for my vaccine today. I didn't think to ask which one it was - it was only in the car afterwards did I read on the vaccine card it was Pfizer.

I don't understand why people aren't happy taking whatever is offered. Most I know here don't care either way and just want to see everyone vaccinated asap. Nationalism and idiocy are a whipped-up tabloid thing, most people on the ground have more sense, I find.

iamwhoiam

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

I am in the UK and went for my vaccine today. I didn't think to ask which one it was - it was only in the car afterwards did I read on the vaccine card it was Pfizer.

I don't understand why people aren't happy taking whatever is offered. Most I know here don't care either way and just want to see everyone vaccinated asap. Nationalism and idiocy are a whipped-up tabloid thing, most people on the ground have more sense, I find.

Anyone I know dont give a damn about which one only about when

stephenjmcd

I must say its a great relief when your family start getting vaccinated.

91 year old grandmother got her first dose of Pfizer & BioNTech at 5pm today. Appointment for 2nd dose given to her before she left her GP. All very well run

Nephinbeg

Haven't posted on boards for many a year, but have enjoyed the discussions in this thread immensely. Some very good info.

Vaccines are the key to getting out of this (wife just done yesterday, AZ) and the roll out has been quite good so far.

The following hasn't been mentioned yet though. I'm a health care professional who's day to day is heavily involved with the new vaccines. I'm not in a clinical role though, and was interested in becoming a vaccinator at weekends. The hse launched their recruitment page yesterday and I find it grim enough reading to be honest: https://hbsrecruitmentservices.ie/vaccinators/.

They are looking for very specific qualified professionals, who are mostly already working in the health services, and paying them well below the going rate (plus large tax deductions if they are already working full time) to work overtime in a somewhat dangerous setting. They application documents are hilarious as well, think birth certs. Flexible hours appear to be fairly minimal too. This is all very off-putting to those who want to give a few hours a week.

I actually think this will all be changed in the next week or two when they get very little interest but just emphasises that some of the major details of the large scale roll-out are up in the air. Venues are one thing, staff is another. I wonder will legislation need to be changed to open it up to more people, especially looking at future delivery volumes. There aren't too many doctors and nurses on PUP I imagine.

Nephinbeg

Yevon wrote: »

If they did any other job would they expect to not be taxed and have their choice of hours? Why would this be any different?

Of course yes, the point is though that the rate is lower than most of their day jobs and will be taxed at the highest rate. It appears that a lot of vaccinators are needed and from professions that are already highly engaged in fighting the pandemic. If you expect people to work overtime, you usually need a bit of a carrot.

My concern is they won't get near the applications they need.

Stheno

New Pfizer data

https://twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1362343935025295361?s=19

Doc07

Stheno wrote: »

New Pfizer data

https://twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1362343935025295361?s=19

Thanks for posting link but it’s not actually new data, it’s comments on the sub group analysis etc from their main phase 3 trial including a rare case where someone writes in to tell the authors some of their results ( for protection after one dose) are better than the company claimed!
All good though with Pfizer, will be reasonable concerns re efficacy and new variants but promising stuff from Israel and UK effectiveness studies demonstrating protection in the real world similar to the trial results.

wandererz

86 year old recent former cancer & stroke patient just got an appointment date of Easter Friday!!! &#55357;&#56874;&#55357;&#56887;&#55357;&#56880;&#55357;&#56880;

Over 85's are first in line, but... 6 weeks!!

Doesn't bode well for everyone else anytime soon!

Stheno

Doc07 wrote: »

Thanks for posting link but it’s not actually new data, it’s comments on the sub group analysis etc from their main phase 3 trial including a rare case where someone writes in to tell the authors some of their results ( for protection after one dose) are better than the company claimed!
All good though with Pfizer, will be reasonable concerns re efficacy and new variants but promising stuff from Israel and UK effectiveness studies demonstrating protection in the real world similar to the trial results.

Ah thanks for clarifying