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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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ArielAtom

gourcuff wrote: »

if we stop the financial doping there should be no need to split dublin really...

If people on here understood the meaning of financial doping that would be an even better start. Its a phrase used by a blogger from Athy which is being used without knowing the definition of it.

kilns

Enquiring wrote: »

A couple of years? Nearly 2 decades you mean? Let's deal with the justification for Dublin receiving about 25 million while everyone else were given far less. For some years Dublin were in receipt of 1.6 million while some other counties were in receipt of 7,500. That's not a typo, 7,500 is what some counties received.

Do you have the breakdown of these 20 years and the 25 million

PLus you do the games development funding for all counties in Leinster comes from the Leinster council and not GAA centrally. How much has Leinster GAA received in development funding?

Would you like to answer and acknowledge the point that since 2017 it has been addressed and that Dublin are mid table in terms of funding and so calls for defund Dublin is entirely moot?

Dick Turnip

awaywithyou wrote: »

Splitting Dublin talk is ridiculous... this team wont be around forever... When Cluxton moves on there will be a dip in performances... his kickouts are good.. but its his presence thats hugely influential for Dublin... then u have Fenton, KIlkenny and McCarthy... i dont care how big the pick is in Dublin... i seriously doubt if there kind will ever be seen again....

I think this argument has been proven false, or at the very least grossly exaggerated though.

The Brogans, Connolly, Flynn, McCaffery - these are players that people said were once in a generation players. They retire and their absence isn't even noticed. If anything, the opposite is happening, Dublin are pulling further away from the pack.

By the time Fenton, Kilkenny, McCarthy, Rock move on, there will probably be someone else slotting in to their jersey seamlessly

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

Do you have the breakdown of these 20 years and the 25 million

PLus you do the games development funding for all counties in Leinster comes from the Leinster council and not GAA centrally. How much has Leinster GAA received in development funding?

Would you like to answer and acknowledge the point that since 2017 it has been addressed and that Dublin are mid table in terms of funding and so calls for defund Dublin is entirely moot?

It's all available in the GAA annual accounts. I could provide you with each and every one but you'll still ignore it.

Again, Dublin are in Leinster. I know Dublin GAA were demanding to be treated like a province but they're not. Dublin received funding from the Leinster council also.

Can you come up with any justification for the extreme imbalance of funding. Is the population of Dublin 12.5 times bigger than Cork for example?

Dick Turnip

One thing that annoys me when talking of Dublin's population advantage is the hypocrisy of a lot of people though. You have posters from counties like Cork, Galway, Meath, Kildare wailing about Dublin's population advantage. Yet all these have a huge advantage over counties like Leitrim, Longford and Fermanagh. There's not too many worried about trying to even the balance at the other end of the spectrum.

kilns

Dick Turnip wrote: »

I think this argument has been proven false, or at the very least grossly exaggerated though.

The Brogans, Connolly, Flynn, McCaffery - these are players that people said were once in a generation players. They retire and their absence isn't even noticed. If anything, the opposite is happening, Dublin are pulling further away from the pack.

By the time Fenton, Kilkenny, McCarthy, Rock move on, there will probably be someone else slotting in to their jersey seamlessly

One player you didnt mention who is the heart and soul of the team and the most influential is Cluxton. A truely unique player and possibly the most influential to ever have played the game, whom despite being a goalkeeper has made some match winning interventions over the years. I dont think he will be replaced. Look at Mayo, they have a shaky keeper and it has cost them. It needs a certain type of person.

Yes they will be still be very strong but will be significantly weaker when he leaves

Dick Turnip

kilns wrote: »

One player you didnt mention who is the heart and soul of the team and the most influential is Cluxton. A truely unique player and possibly the most influential to ever have played the game, whom despite being a goalkeeper has made some match winning interventions over the years. I dont think he will be replaced. Look at Mayo, they have a shaky keeper and it has cost them. It needs a certain type of person.

Yes they will be still be very strong but will be significantly weaker when he leaves

I know Cluxton has been immense but from what I've seen of Comerford he looks very good too, plus he's been in the setup for a few years now, so when Cluxton does eventually retire, he will be fit in right away. I just think whatever dip there may be between Cluxton and Comerford, it won't be huge as he's been groomed for a few years now to step up when he gets his chance.

On that note, I was surprised Cluxton kept going this year. Given his age and getting the 5 in a row, I figured it would be a good time to retire. Possibly a lazy assumption, you never know what drives different folk obviously.

kilns

Dick Turnip wrote: »

I know Cluxton has been immense but from what I've seen of Comerford he looks very good too, plus he's been in the setup for a few years now, so when Cluxton does eventually retire, he will be fit in right away. I just think whatever dip there may be between Cluxton and Comerford, it won't be huge as he's been groomed for a few years now to step up when he gets his chance.

On that note, I was surprised Cluxton kept going this year. Given his age and getting the 5 in a row, I figured it would be a good time to retire. Possibly a lazy assumption, you never know what drives different folk obviously.

As I said Cluxton is unique Comerford is not a bad keep but not in the same league as Cluxton no one is

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

One player you didnt mention who is the heart and soul of the team and the most influential is Cluxton. A truely unique player and possibly the most influential to ever have played the game, whom despite being a goalkeeper has made some match winning interventions over the years. I dont think he will be replaced. Look at Mayo, they have a shaky keeper and it has cost them. It needs a certain type of person.

Yes they will be still be very strong but will be significantly weaker when he leaves

Who is the heart and soul of the Dublin womens team? The multiple All Ireland u21 winning teams? The Dublin minor teams, the underage hurling teams, senior hurling teams, multiple different club teams? All of these had unprecedented levels of success at the same time that Dublin GAA received unprecedented level of funding.

crossman47

This discussion has become pointless at this stage. We just have to accept that, if the GAA sticks with the current inter county model, Dublin will win nine of the next ten All Irelands and interest, outside of Dublin, will wither away. I don't have a solution but thats the reality no matter how much money is allocated to other counties. Dublin always had huge advantages (population, finals in Croke Park, etc) but these have now been capitalised on by them and the juggernaut will not be stopped. Luckily, they have little interest in hurling at County Board level.

Dick Turnip

crossman47 wrote: »

Luckily, they have little interest in hurling at County Board level.

Perhaps, but they're not all that far off competing in hurling either. Obviously you could say the same in a few other counties, but imagine if a few of the footballers committed to the hurling instead for a few years - O'Callaghan being the obvious example but Costello & Kilkenny were both dual stars underage for Dublin.

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

Ah stop you are making a fool of yourself now

At some stage, no matter how hard it is to swallow. Everyone will have to face up to the fact that it is indefensible. Dublin got a huge level of funding that was totally unjustified and it was wrong.

Dick Turnip

kilns wrote: »

As I said Cluxton is unique Comerford is not a bad keep but not in the same league as Cluxton no one is

Maybe so, but I don't think the gap between Cluxton and Comerford is worth 10+ points that Dublin have been winning every match by for the last 6 years.

kilns

Enquiring wrote: »

At some stage, no matter how hard it is to swallow. Everyone will have to face up to the fact that it is indefensible. Dublin got a huge level of funding that was totally unjustified and it was wrong.

Answer the question asked of you

crossman47

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Perhaps, but they're not all that far off competing in hurling either. Obviously you could say the same in a few other counties, but imagine if a few of the footballers committed to the hurling instead for a few years - O'Callaghan being the obvious example but Costello & Kilkenny were both dual stars underage for Dublin.

But that's my point. You can be sure Costello and Kilkenny were encouraged to go the football route.

awaywithyou

Dick Turnip wrote: »

I think this argument has been proven false, or at the very least grossly exaggerated though.

The Brogans, Connolly, Flynn, McCaffery - these are players that people said were once in a generation players. They retire and their absence isn't even noticed. If anything, the opposite is happening, Dublin are pulling further away from the pack.

By the time Fenton, Kilkenny, McCarthy, Rock move on, there will probably be someone else slotting in to their jersey seamlessly

no there wont... Dublin won in 16 or 17 without mccaffrey.. they also won in 2011 without him... played sec half of last years all-ireland replay without him as well... Brogans were good but not as influential as the 4 ive mentioned... Connolly wasnt there in 18.. sub last year so again not a critical player for them...

the 4 ive mentioned are massive players for dublin... Dublin havent lost since Fenton emerged.. says it all really

[Deleted User]

Dublin have very many advantages such as population size, sponsorship, most of their players living in the county, shorter travel times to training etc I don't see how any of these are unfair, that's just the way it is.

Playing all their games at home is unfair, but how do we finance croke park and the wider GAA without maximising ticket sales and hence using croke park as much as possible if it makes sense financially. So still not Dublin's fault.

Finally yes there was definitely preferential funding of the GAA in Dublin at least in the recent past. But this was because huge parts of Dublin took no interest in GAA and focused on soccer and rugby. This has been changed to a very large degree and I think most of us would think this is a good thing.

Maybe Mayo will beat them and we'll all decide things are grand the way they are

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

Answer the question asked of you or go away please

Have you come up with any justification for Dublin GAA receiving huge sums of resources far above the level of any other county and way out of proportion with population?

I can provide you with the figures later if you wish.

kilns

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Maybe so, but I don't think the gap between Cluxton and Comerford is worth 10+ points that Dublin have been winning every match by for the last 6 years.

True as I said they will remain strong but they will be weakened and will be more vunerable at times

Dick Turnip

crossman47 wrote: »

But that's my point. You can be sure Costello and Kilkenny were encouraged to go the football route.

Yeah, I get you. I don't know if they were forces at play to "encourage" them to play football. If you're 21 years old and you think you can make the football team, win a few AI medals and play in front of 80k people a few times a year or pick hurling and maybe win a couple of games a year, there's only going to be one winner.

Perhaps now they might too get bored with the football appreciate a challenge and throw their lot in with the hurling!

kilns

Enquiring wrote: »

Have you come up with any justification for Dublin GAA receiving huge sums of resources far above the level of any other county and way out of proportion with population?

I can provide you with the figures later if you wish.

Answer the question

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

Answer the question

Are you talking to yourself?

The Lost Sheep

crossman47 wrote: »

This discussion has become pointless at this stage. We just have to accept that, if the GAA sticks with the current inter county model, Dublin will win nine of the next ten All Irelands and interest, outside of Dublin, will wither away. I don't have a solution but thats the reality no matter how much money is allocated to other counties. Dublin always had huge advantages (population, finals in Croke Park, etc) but these have now been capitalised on by them and the juggernaut will not be stopped. Luckily, they have little interest in hurling at County Board level.

Will interest really start to drop off dramatically?
Interest for many in gaelic didnt and hasnt dropped off in plenty areas of Munster despite Clare and Tipp having won one provincial title each in 80 years.
Many counties have never really challenged for all irelands and struggled for provincial titles and the interest hasnt dropped off.
Finals in Croke Park is not the issue. The finals are played in the national stadium/home place of the association. Dublin do need more games early on in the championship out of Dublin and Croke Park though..

Enquiring

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Will interest really start to drop off dramatically?
Interest for many in gaelic didnt and hasnt dropped off in plenty areas of Munster despite Clare and Tipp having won one provincial title each in 80 years.
Many counties have never really challenged for all irelands and struggled for provincial titles and the interest hasnt dropped off.
Finals in Croke Park is not the issue. The finals are played in the national stadium/home place of the association. Dublin do need more games early on in the championship out of Dublin and Croke Park though..

All you have to do is look at the drop off in attendances to see the interest is waning. And that's only talking about Dublin. There has been a big drop off in the Leinster championship. For some games, only about 10,000 Dublin supporters have attended. Leinster final attendances are way down. If it's let continue, All Ireland semi finals and maybe even finals might not be sell outs.

This is the most likely reason change will happen. Dublin were given the resources and funding as it would assist the GAA with an increase in income. This worked, the GAA reaped financial benefits from their investment. This is now dropping off. They have tried to paper over the cracks with the new All Ireland group stage. This hasn't been that successful and will decline further if Dublin are let compete under professional structures.

They have started funding other counties but it's too late. One county got a 2 decade head start and have now increased their revenue far beyond what any other county can come close too. The increased standards achieved post funding led to increased sponsorship etc and it steam rolled into a position we're in now. The GAA will attempt a few other solutions but at the end of the day, the finances are the most important thing with HQ. The option to increase that will be taken.

Dick Turnip

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Will interest really start to drop off dramatically?
Interest for many in gaelic didnt and hasnt dropped off in plenty areas of Munster despite Clare and Tipp having won one provincial title each in 80 years.
Many counties have never really challenged for all irelands and struggled for provincial titles and the interest hasnt dropped off.
Finals in Croke Park is not the issue. The finals are played in the national stadium/home place of the association. Dublin do need more games early on in the championship out of Dublin and Croke Park though..

Well put it this way, I would watch most intercounty games on tv, I've stopped watching Dublin matches (AI finals aside) as the result is just inevitable at this stage. I wasn't going to watch the Cavan match the last day but tuned in for the novelty of seeing Cavan there. At half time I'd seen enough so went to Tesco to do the grocery shopping. I can't be the only neutral tuning out.

TheDalioLama

kilns wrote: »

Seriously the lack of education on this is actually astounding, can people do a little research before they post, people calling for financial doping to be stopped, since 2017 Dublin has been mid table in terms of development funding and since that time Leinster GAA has put additional money into the east leinster coaching project.

Just like Dublin, you are not going to see immediate results as coaching begins at a very young level primarily but that is if it is done properly and the benefits are reaped in 5-10 years.

It is also interesting to note that the only county which sought Dublins help and advice on the commercial side of things (others rejected it) are the county that are going for their 2nd All Ireland Hurling title in 3 years - Limerick.

Even assuming the metric you are using regarding development funding for Dublin from 2017 forward is correct, and they are now middle of the pack in this regard, what about the preceding 15 years? That's a huge span of time to disproportionately fund one county and the benefits are clear to see.

dunnerc

crossman47 wrote: »

This discussion has become pointless at this stage. We just have to accept that, if the GAA sticks with the current inter county model, Dublin will win nine of the next ten All Irelands and interest, outside of Dublin, will wither away. I don't have a solution but thats the reality no matter how much money is allocated to other counties. Dublin always had huge advantages (population, finals in Croke Park, etc) but these have now been capitalised on by them and the juggernaut will not be stopped. Luckily, they have little interest in hurling at County Board level.

Dont forget the free lunches

oh sorry i didnt see etc

dunnerc

Dick Turnip wrote: »

I think this argument has been proven false, or at the very least grossly exaggerated though.

The Brogans, Connolly, Flynn, McCaffery - these are players that people said were once in a generation players. They retire and their absence isn't even noticed. If anything, the opposite is happening, Dublin are pulling further away from the pack.

By the time Fenton, Kilkenny, McCarthy, Rock move on, there will probably be someone else slotting in to their jersey seamlessly

What pack is that ?please explain

Dick Turnip

dunnerc wrote: »

What pack is that ?please explain

Every other county...

And to explain - Dublin's average winning margins over championship campaigns are increasing every year, not decreasing.

crossman47

When I think about it, Dublin are similar to Celtic in Scotland. They have huge advantages and can only be stopped by their own gross mismanagement, as has happened to Celtic this year.