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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

meeeeh

FishOnABike wrote: »

Recent extensive studies of over 60,000 contacts in South Korea have shown over 10s are as likely to catch and transmit CoViD-19 as adults, if not more likely.¹

And the mortality rate among children? Yes kids catch and transmit the disease but they are at a low risk to die from it. UN put out a warning that decades of progress could be lost and inequality increased if kids can't get back to school. That's a lot more real risk to kids.

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freak scence

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The level of drama and exaggeration over “damaging children’s futures” is gone beyond a joke. They have missed a few months of school, big deal. If they missed another full year it would make feck all difference to their “future”. Honestly people need to get their priority’s straight. The entire country should have one target, eliminating covid-19 everything else can wait.

If people don’t like it well pity about them. Schools should not be opening, restaurants should not be open, the law making house parties criminal should have been pushed through, the guards should be doubling their efforts to stop gatherings etc etc.

how many people are dying from it now shag all open everything up, if you don;t like that move to leitrim

facehugger99

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The level of drama and exaggeration over “damaging children’s futures” is gone beyond a joke. They have missed a few months of school, big deal. If they missed another full year it would make feck all difference to their “future”. Honestly people need to get their priority’s straight. The entire country should have one target, eliminating covid-19 everything else can wait.

If people don’t like it well pity about them. Schools should not be opening, restaurants should not be open, the law making house parties criminal should have been pushed through, the guards should be doubling their efforts to stop gatherings etc etc.

My children's education trumps your irrational fear - all day, every day

pwurple

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The level of drama and exaggeration over “damaging children’s futures” is gone beyond a joke. They have missed a few months of school, big deal. If they missed another full year it would make feck all difference to their “future”. Honestly people need to get their priority’s straight. The entire country should have one target, eliminating covid-19 everything else can wait.

If people don’t like it well pity about them. Schools should not be opening, restaurants should not be open, the law making house parties criminal should have been pushed through, the guards should be doubling their efforts to stop gatherings etc etc.

Aha. And it was another 4 years?
What if "eliminating covid-19" is as acheivable as "eliminating" cancer? Hey let's just lay all the teachers off is it? Great idea.

We can count the number of covid patients in hospital on one hand at the moment. We can live with that.

Meanwhile we have isolated people committing suicide, cancer patients not getting diagonosed until they are terminal because of the backlog in biopsies, our unemployed youth are resorting to crime and blackmarket drink / drugs. Our tax income is being wiped out. What are you paying these doubling of guards with? They don't run on fresh air.

beggars_bush

Good luck to anyone going back today

Students and staff

Locotastic

pwurple wrote: »

Interestingly, remember the family who returned to Ireland from Italy at the very start here? 2 of the children, Covid positive, went to school for a week ... Not one single other person got it from them. Zero transmission. ~1000 close contacts. None of them picked up this highly contagious disease.

How contagious is it really? I know a few people who were close contacts, as in sharing the same bed close in some cases and they didn't contract it.

I know of families where one member got it through work and nobody in their family caught it.

Would be interesting to see just how contagious it is or if there have been any studies done around this.

Edit OK found one study that concludes:

2.6% of close contacts of cases contracted COVID-19; almost half were asymptomatic or had mild infection. The main transmission appeared to take place via household contacts.

So if you're covid positive and you've 40 close contacts odds are that 1 person will contract it from you.

Obviously there are differentials but that seems to be the simple figures.

[Deleted User]

Russman wrote: »

I honestly think a lot (in fairness, not all of it) of the concern about kids is really parents sick of having to deal with them for the last 5 months.

There is certainly a large element of that, parents want their free childcare.

Jinglejangle69

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The level of drama and exaggeration over “damaging children’s futures” is gone beyond a joke. They have missed a few months of school, big deal. If they missed another full year it would make feck all difference to their “future”. Honestly people need to get their priority’s straight. The entire country should have one target, eliminating covid-19 everything else can wait.

If people don’t like it well pity about them. Schools should not be opening, restaurants should not be open, the law making house parties criminal should have been pushed through, the guards should be doubling their efforts to stop gatherings etc etc.

1/10.

Russman

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The level of drama and exaggeration over “damaging children’s futures” is gone beyond a joke. They have missed a few months of school, big deal. If they missed another full year it would make feck all difference to their “future”. Honestly people need to get their priority’s straight. The entire country should have one target, eliminating covid-19 everything else can wait.

If people don’t like it well pity about them. Schools should not be opening, restaurants should not be open, the law making house parties criminal should have been pushed through, the guards should be doubling their efforts to stop gatherings etc etc.

I honestly think a lot (in fairness, not all of it) of the concern about kids is really parents sick of having to deal with them for the last 5 months.

khalessi

ALso Mike Ryan of the WHO in conversation with Sarah McInerney agreed that children 10-12 years of age and teenagers spread it as easily as adults about 2 weeks ago.

[Deleted User]

pwurple wrote: »

Enough is enough. Just leave the kids get on with their lives, and protect those who need protection. Punishing children and damaging their future is the wrong focus.

The level of drama and exaggeration over “damaging children’s futures” is gone beyond a joke. They have missed a few months of school, big deal. If they missed another full year it would make feck all difference to their “future”. Honestly people need to get their priority’s straight. The entire country should have one target, eliminating covid-19 everything else can wait.

If people don’t like it well pity about them. Schools should not be opening, restaurants should not be open, the law making house parties criminal should have been pushed through, the guards should be doubling their efforts to stop gatherings etc etc.

khalessi

pwurple wrote: »

https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/children-and-covid-19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7268273/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-schools/swedens-health-agency-says-open-schools-did-not-spur-pandemic-spread-among-children-idUSKCN24G2IS

Interestingly, remember the family who returned to Ireland from Italy at the very start here? 2 of the children, Covid positive, went to school for a week ... Not one single other person got it from them. Zero transmission. ~1000 close contacts. None of them picked up this highly contagious disease.

Ireland's case was in March and the virus has developed since then.

Norway's biggest school case have 40 children who got Covid19 directly linked to their school.

https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/BR569e/undefined

It was Norway's biggest school outbreak. Infection hunters believe that the outbreak provides new insight into the role of children in the spread of infection.
40 cases could be traced to the school. The municipal superintendent in Lillestrøm believes that the outbreak at Sagdalen school calls into question what we know about children's role in the spread of infection.
The school holiday had just begun, but at Sagdalen school on Strømmen it was anything but a holiday. Instead, an intense hunt for infection took place.

The alarm went off on June 23. Then the municipal chief in Lillestrøm, Bettina C. Fossberg, was notified of the situation at the school.

Students from six classes were brought back from vacation. A separate test station was set up at the school. Here, most students, all employees and many in the local community were tested in two rounds.

Now, two months later, the municipality and the National Institute of Public Health have made a report on the outbreak. It provides deeper insight into several areas. One of them is the role of children in the spread of infection. The municipal chief believes that this can provide important knowledge about how schools should respond to the pandemic

iguana

pwurple wrote: »

And we know they do not shed the disease at the same level, hence they are not as contagious. The r number for children is absolutely miniscule.

Nope. That's what we thought might be the case back in the spring. Now that we have real data on this, that is no longer the prevailing scientific opinion. What we appear to know now is that children of 10 and older spread the virus at the exact same rate as everyone else. That the older a child, from 0-9, the more likely they are to spread it. The WHO recommends children from 6+ wear masks for this reason. We know that in Israel schools were directly responsible for 47% of infections in the first month of their second wave. We know that 'middle school' children were the main source of school infections.

We need to keep on top of new information and not continue to cling to old information because it suited us. My son and I probably had the virus, so I was very attached to any evidence that indicated we had immunity. I sure as hell don't like the fact that it's increasingly likely that reinfection already appears to be happening. But that doesn't change the facts.

It would be absolutely fantastic if children weren't spreaders. But that does not appear to be the case. And schools being brought back with plans based on old assumptions is a recipe for disaster.

Treppen

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

No probably not.

I think schools won't last. Closed individually first then, as the number of closures rise, regionally and perhaps nationally.

There will be too many cases arising and NPHET will recommend they close. We have to try though and they should be given the chance, like all sectors.

But remember Micheal Martin said kids could only catch Covid from home, so the chances of them catching it in schools is very low. :pac:

pwurple

irishblessing wrote: »

Link for that? Because I've read articles on scientific studies, also stated by Mike Ryan of WHO that says you're wrong.

https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/children-and-covid-19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7268273/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-schools/swedens-health-agency-says-open-schools-did-not-spur-pandemic-spread-among-children-idUSKCN24G2IS

Interestingly, remember the family who returned to Ireland from Italy at the very start here? 2 of the children, Covid positive, went to school for a week ... Not one single other person got it from them. Zero transmission. ~1000 close contacts. None of them picked up this highly contagious disease.

irishblessing

pwurple wrote: »

Sorry, but that's just pure ignorance of this disease. We already kept children out of school. What's the magic cutoff point?

Let's look at what we know at this stage. We know children are not as affected as older people. Why? We know children have less of the protein (ACE2) that Covid binds to, because it develops as we humans age. That means they can't get it as easily when exposed. We know children don't have the fully developed system that creates a cytokine storm, which is what hospitalises people with severe Covid, so they don't get as sick if they do get it. And we know they do not shed the disease at the same level, hence they are not as contagious. The r number for children is absolutely miniscule.

With a risk assessment, children should currently be out and about as completely normal in Ireland. Instead we are doing pods, bubbles, bleaching the sugar out of everything, to appease non-scientific thinking and give some level of what... Reassurance? All it seems to do is make being a hypochondriac cool...

Enough is enough. Just leave the kids get on with their lives, and protect those who need protection. Punishing children and damaging their future is the wrong focus.

Link for that? Because I've read articles on scientific studies, also stated by Mike Ryan of WHO that says you're wrong.

Jinglejangle69

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

No probably not.

I think schools won't last. Closed individually first then, as the number of closures rise, regionally and perhaps nationally.

There will be too many cases arising and NPHET will recommend they close. We have to try though and they should be given the chance, like all sectors.

Can I have a lend of your crystal ball?

pwurple

Posh Dave wrote: »

Probably better for the first month or two to see how it goes. What we all do not want is the schools shutting down again

Sorry, but that's just pure ignorance of this disease. We already kept children out of school. What's the magic cutoff point?

Let's look at what we know at this stage. We know children are not as affected as older people. Why? We know children have less of the protein (ACE2) that Covid binds to, because it develops as we humans age. That means they can't get it as easily when exposed. We know children don't have the fully developed system that creates a cytokine storm, which is what hospitalises people with severe Covid, so they don't get as sick if they do get it. And we know they do not shed the disease at the same level, hence they are not as contagious. The r number for children is absolutely miniscule.

With a risk assessment, children should currently be out and about as completely normal in Ireland. Instead we are doing pods, bubbles, bleaching the sugar out of everything, to appease non-scientific thinking and give some level of what... Reassurance? All it seems to do is make being a hypochondriac cool...

Enough is enough. Just leave the kids get on with their lives, and protect those who need protection. Punishing children and damaging their future is the wrong focus.

Leftwaffe

Locotastic wrote: »

Will something major have changed between now and the new year do you think?

No probably not.

I think schools won't last. Closed individually first then, as the number of closures rise, regionally and perhaps nationally.

There will be too many cases arising and NPHET will recommend they close. We have to try though and they should be given the chance, like all sectors.

jrosen

Unless there is a real long term solution to on line teaching schools will remain open. There is currently no alternative that delivers adequate consistent teaching to all students through every school in Ireland. I do think we will see classes sent home, temp school closures where there has been a clusters of cases but the government know there is zero public patience at this stage.

smellyoldboot

I'd say they might try drag it out till Christmas, numbers will be fudged, the finger will be pointed elsewhere before the WHO/EU starts asking questions and then some prominent scientists and politicians will be allowed to resign seeing as nobody ever gets sacked for incompetence and/or fraud in this country.

Hawthorn Tree

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

What an idiotic strategy though. They shouldn’t be opening in the first place, but at the first sign of a spike they should be shut indefinitely.

No opening again until many weeks in a row without a single case in the entire country or else a vaccine.

I see you are not a realist. They do need to open. The children need some focus again for as long as it lasts. We will never eradicate Covid completely from Ireland. A foolproof vaccine is highly unlikely.

Locotastic

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

No opening again until many weeks in a row without a single case in the entire country or else a vaccine.

Unrealistic unfortunately, long time waiting for that day to arrive.

irishblessing

Posh Dave wrote: »

dont forget teachers are paid to teach (or you would like to call it a free childminding service). I pay my taxes so my children can be educated so maybe you should start doing your job and stop complaining. Maybe it’s the thought of doing work after 6 months off on full pay has got you worried?

Teachers also pay taxes and as it's a free country, they can complain about working conditions (or indeed anything) if they want. You're not their employer, their boss, or the Lord thy God. :pac:

Locotastic

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

We're preparing the teachers and students for this. I think you're 100% correct. 4-6 weeks it will be put of control and the plug will indeed be pulled. Hopefully we could return in the new year with a proper plan then.

Will something major have changed between now and the new year do you think?

[Deleted User]

Locotastic wrote: »

Maybe in secondary but I don't see primary going back online in any large scale, unless the schools are riddled with Covid. Even then it will be very much class by class, school by school basis. They'll be kept open come hell or high water.

What an idiotic strategy though. They shouldn’t be opening in the first place, but at the first sign of a spike they should be shut indefinitely.

No opening again until many weeks in a row without a single case in the entire country or else a vaccine.

Hawthorn Tree

deiseindublin wrote: »

And you'd prefer they didn't prepare them for something that odds are stacked with?

Absolutely baffling...........

I made a prediction, I did not say it was wrong. It makes logical sense. Calm down a wee bit.

When it comes to Covid, people are so reactive. Try Caps the next time.

Leftwaffe

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I reckon we'll be back to online classes again by mid October. The teachers unions will pull the plug at the first opportunity.

In fact I think the teachers will spend the next 4-6 weeks getting the kids prepared for returning to online classes and assessments.

We're preparing the teachers and students for this. I think you're 100% correct. 4-6 weeks it will be put of control and the plug will indeed be pulled. Hopefully we could return in the new year with a proper plan then.

deiseindublin

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I reckon we'll be back to online classes again by mid October. The teachers unions will pull the plug at the first opportunity.

In fact I think the teachers will spend the next 4-6 weeks getting the kids prepared for returning to online classes and assessments.

And you'd prefer they didn't prepare them for something that odds are stacked with?

Absolutely baffling...........

Locotastic

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I reckon we'll be back to online classes again by mid October. The teachers unions will pull the plug at the first opportunity.

In fact I think the teachers will spend the next 4-6 weeks getting the kids prepared for returning to online classes and assessments.

Maybe in secondary but I don't see primary going back online in any large scale, unless the schools are riddled with Covid. Even then it will be very much class by class, school by school basis. They'll be kept open come hell or high water.

Leftwaffe

Locotastic wrote: »

What's stopping you?

I prefer teaching, it is easier on the body. I have a permanent job now so good job security and I am reluctant to leave it. I was just saying construction is definitely safer when it comes to covid. Kind of a no brainer really.