How will schools be able to go back in September?

Boggles wrote: »

Put their health and the health of their families at risk and add to the reseeding of the virus in the community which will lead to further job losses?

I want the names of these 100s of 1000s of people.

Let me get a pencil.

Take my name there. I haven't added to the reseeding of the virus. See daily figures.

Yes I put mine and my families health at risk to keep food on your table when we knew less about the virsus and you were hiding under your bed.

There would have been some whinging over empty shelves

caveat emptor

donfers wrote: »

.......

Thank the stars other key occupations facing similar or greater risks haven't been so craven

Wow calling teachers cowards?!!!
Your some c u next Tuesday.

It's not the battle of somme. We have options.
You just don't understand them.

Did you not get on well in school.
Is that what this is about?
Do you think you could have been a teacher.

I personally wouldn't want to be one but fair fvcks to them.

They'll be the new nurses. We'll probably even give them a clap.

Blondini wrote: »

How do you know what schools look like these days? You're not qualified enough to be in one in a professional capacity.

Things have changed a lot since you did your Group Cert.

:pac:

How would you know what anyone is qualified to do in a professional capacity?

Don't assume to know the educational background of anyone, you have no idea and you're well off the mark too.

I will admit that I don't know what a group cert is

that's probably a generational thing though.

caveat emptor

Gotcha below means I understand what you mean. Not the meaning you are implying.

Up for another day of minimising a deadly pathogen with zero evidence?
Let me know and I can take the day off to refute your opinion with peer reviewed studies.
Do you do this professionally or just a hobby?
What do you get out of it?

I know people are sick of kids at home but they might want to hold off giving them permanent damage.

This is not about us.
This is about the safety of our children and teachers.
I'll be quite vocal about that until I see some change.

caveat emptor wrote: »

Gotcha.
Read a book instead of bull****ting.
Night

Sending kids into class during this is now effectively criminal negligence.
Science is clear and has been proven.
Hope someone has the tipex at the ready.

They'll need to change this bit quite and any of the legalities that go with it.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ridiculous

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

Consideriing the stuff you have printed about teachers, this does not surprise me, the term exhibit A comes to mind but heyho.

What, that they don't all have enough knowledge or skills to say whether or not a school should reopen? Or that they should be supported better by the DoE, BoM and principals? Or that they should stop paying for supplies out of their own pocket because it makes it impossible to come up with a tangible shortfall in resource budget?

Sorry Khalessi, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that you have a personal problem with me.

donfers wrote: »

hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs and would give their right arm to be in the teachers' position

Put their health and the health of their families at risk and add to the reseeding of the virus in the community which will lead to further job losses?

I want the names of these 100s of 1000s of people.

Let me get a pencil.

donfers

khalessi wrote: »

I dont know if it will be a car crash but if it isnt is wil be because the teachers stopped it being one and then the public will say there was no risk and the disease is harmless like they did after the HCW got the hospitals ready and werent overrum and the trolls here will say teachers being alarmist for nothing. Not teachers thanks for protecting our kids and making the schools safe despite the **** advice and plans you were given to work with. Then they will give out about our holidays and be delighted with themselves, not bothering to notice the work that went into keeping little Jimmy or karen safe.

ridiculously self-important post

this is a pandemic, do your job and get on with it

there are risks of course, but everything is relative, there are huge risks associated with not opening

hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs and would give their right arm to be in the teachers' position

so spare me the hero complex bs and get on with your job

Thank the stars other key occupations facing similar or greater risks haven't been so craven

Lillyfae wrote: »

What a rotten attitude.

Consideriing the stuff you have printed about teachers, this does not surprise me, the term exhibit A comes to mind but heyho.

Blondini

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I'm under no illusion what schools will look like a couple of weeks into September.

How do you know what schools look like these days? You're not qualified enough to be in one in a professional capacity.

Things have changed a lot since you did your Group Cert.

[Deleted User]

caveat emptor wrote: »

Gotcha

Ridiculous

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

not bothering to notice the work that went into keeping little Jimmy or karen safe.

What a rotten attitude.

caveat emptor wrote: »

I find it best to not feed the trolls.
Some of us have tried to forewarn on various things that WILL go wrong. Not maybe. In all likelihood this will be a car crash.

So I'll take my own advice.
I might pop back in to give comment on how the teachers unions do in the oireachtas committee they'll surely be invited to like the nurses.

There is a difference this time though. The science has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that it is spreads via airborne transmission.

Not taking that into account and expecting people and children to risk their lives will be more costly with the various legal suits coming down the tracks.

Best of luck everyone.
Stay safe.

I dont know if it will be a car crash but if it isnt is wil be because the teachers stopped it being one and then the public will say there was no risk and the disease is harmless like they did after the HCW got the hospitals ready and werent overrum and the trolls here will say teachers being alarmist for nothing. Not teachers thanks for protecting our kids and making the schools safe despite the **** advice and plans you were given to work with. Then they will give out about our holidays and be delighted with themselves, not bothering to notice the work that went into keeping little Jimmy or karen safe.

downthemiddle wrote: »

Can you suggest what might go wrong when it’s not practical or possible?

In relation to teachers refusing to work in a class that they deem is unsafe, there are going to be very limited options.

They have laid down the requirements for return to school, it's got lots of ambiguous language so it would be very difficult for someone to say the guidelines weren't being followed or that there was a breach (therefore leading to a complaint).

I'm under no illusion what schools will look like a couple of weeks into September.

caveat emptor

Boggles wrote: »

And if the guidelines can't be followed?

I find it best to not feed the trolls.
Some of us have tried to forewarn on various things that WILL go wrong. Not maybe. In all likelihood this will be a car crash.

So I'll take my own advice.
I might pop back in to give comment on how the teachers unions do in the oireachtas committee they'll surely be invited to like the nurses.

There is a difference this time though. The science has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that it is spreads via airborne transmission.

Not taking that into account and expecting people and children to risk their lives will be more costly with the various legal suits coming down the tracks.

Best of luck everyone.
Stay safe.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I see "where possible" and "where practical" mentioned quite a bit in the plan so they've got that aspect covered.

Can you suggest what might go wrong when it’s not practical or possible?

downthemiddle

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If the complaint was they touch each others faces, why wouldn't the solution be to stop them. That's not patronising, that common sense.

Look, we get some teachers are inflexible and have no interest in solutions

A typical Junior Infant class of thirty would include children who have delayed language who would struggle to follow instructions. The likelihood is that there will also be some with EAL. There may even be a crossover between the two. There will be a number of children with additional needs some diagnosed others still waiting for the system to catch up. Some will be able to tie their shoes and coats, the majority won’t. There will, in all probability be a child with a toileting issue. There will be a number of behaviour issues. There will be parental denial.
It is easy to make sweeping generalisations when you don’t understand the complexity of situations. Teachers deal with these situations on a daily basis.
The issue with this “plan” is that it doesn’t reflect best practice in other countries. At the height of school closures globally 90% of schools were closed. One third of schools, despite what you might read on this thread, have returned. We had an opportunity to learn from countries like Uruguay and Japan. Instead we are going to return on a wing and a prayer.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I see "where possible" mentioned quite a bit in the plan so they've got that aspect covered.

Now you are getting it.

Boggles wrote: »

And if the guidelines can't be followed?

I see "where possible" and "where practical" mentioned quite a bit in the plan so they've got that aspect covered.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

If the guidelines aren't being followed well then that's a whole other story and they have the same option as everyone else to make a complaint to the HSA.

And if the guidelines can't be followed?

combat14 wrote: »

can teachers refuse to teach in a class room if it is not safe to do so .........

According to some posts here some teachers have already resigned.

If the issued guidelines are being followed then there's no real grounds for a HSA complaint.

I'd imagine if teachers feel they aren't safe in their workplace but there's been no breach of guidelines then they face the same decisions as the rest of the non teaching workforce.

They can refuse to teach by resigning any time they want to, as some already have.

If the guidelines aren't being followed well then that's a whole other story and they have the same option as everyone else to make a complaint to the HSA.

combat14 wrote: »

can teachers refuse to teach in a class room if it is not safe to do so .........

It's up to the teachers employers I imagine to make sure the working environment adheres to health and safety guidelines. But it is incumbent on all employees to keep themselves safe, so I guess they could definitely refuse on those grounds.

But it's a pertinent question, will the relevant health authorities do mass inspections of schools to make sure they are compliant and if not what happens?

We are using an incredible amount of Gardaí resources making sure people in pubs have had their 9 euro chicken wings with those 6 pints.

I imagine schools will get the same level of attention and resources in enforcing health and safety.

Ah no, shure be grand!

combat14

when is the legislation on wearing face masks in shops to be published.. or has that been scrapped as it is no longer needed any more ...?

can teachers refuse to teach in a class room if it is not safe to do so .........

khalessi wrote: »

So true, common sense that it should not need to be explained to a group of professionals who do that and more everyday, its like selling snow to eskimos. You obviously havent been in a classroom especially a junior infants or senior infants class as described by Hook or by Crook. You would not realise the amount and variety of stuff we teach and do that is not on the curriculum and how often we repeat it. Just because it was mentioned does not mean the teacher never thought to ask jimmy not to do it, he was simply replying to your list from the guidelines showing how impractical the list is.

Upto 3rd class corks are put in the boys toilets for them to aim at, otherwise they urinate all over the place. That is one of many issues dealt with along with face touching but we deal with that and discuss it and repeatedly remind them not to do along with a million other things, which have nothing to do with academics. Most teachers are very flexible as it is the nature of the job, you cannot work with children and not be flexible.

The basic fact is the plan has major flaws, seems like they had nothing then threw it together, they didn't consult with teachers, no teacher I know filled out a survey apart from the VFT survey last week. If they had have consulted sooner and worked on the plan a few months ago it could have been better. But no plan is perfect and we will find workarounds, there was a lot that should have been included but it should have definitely included masks for staff and optional for children. Some children were wearing them in March in school as they felt happier. It is a worry though that they think it is ok to play around with schools and not apply the same guidelines that have appeared in other sectors.

I wonder how thoroughly some have actually read the plan. Hookorbycrook missed the section on financial support for cleaning.

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If the complaint was they touch each others faces, why wouldn't the solution be to stop them. That's not patronising, that common sense.

Look, we get some teachers are inflexible and have no interest in solutions

So true, common sense that it should not need to be explained to a group of professionals who do that and more everyday, its like selling snow to eskimos. You obviously havent been in a classroom especially a junior infants or senior infants class as described by Hook or by Crook. You would not realise the amount and variety of stuff we teach and do that is not on the curriculum and how often we repeat it. Just because it was mentioned does not mean the teacher never thought to ask jimmy not to do it, he was simply replying to your list from the guidelines showing how impractical the list is.

Upto 3rd class corks are put in the boys toilets for them to aim at, otherwise they urinate all over the place. That is one of many issues dealt with along with face touching but we deal with that and discuss it and repeatedly remind them not to do along with a million other things, which have nothing to do with academics. Most teachers are very flexible as it is the nature of the job, you cannot work with children and not be flexible.

The basic fact is the plan has major flaws, seems like they had nothing then threw it together, they didn't consult with teachers, no teacher I know filled out a survey apart from the VFT survey last week. If they had have consulted sooner and worked on the plan a few months ago it could have been better. But no plan is perfect and we will find workarounds, there was a lot that should have been included but it should have definitely included masks for staff and optional for children. Some children were wearing them in March in school as they felt happier. It is a worry though that they think it is ok to play around with schools and not apply the same guidelines that have appeared in other sectors.

khalessi wrote: »

Laugh all you want you did not know why the picture is unsuitable. If an SNA is sitting with a child they are there for long periods. The picture was fine pre covid but the SNAs I know are very upset about the fact they are not included in any plans and the only picture is them without sd and ppe not encouraged.

Teachers will work this out it is what we do, but you have spent the evening explaining how to teach hygiene to 6 year olds and quoting pictures from a document that the teachers on this thread have read. Did it not cross your mind we do that everyday? Don't let them touch each others faces. It was a bit of a patronising post. Listen go into a classroom and see what we do. You then pick a diagram that teacher has already seen no doubt and you cant see why it is incorrect.

If the complaint was they touch each others faces, why wouldn't the solution be to stop them. That's not patronising, that common sense.

Look, we get some teachers are inflexible and have no interest in solutions

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Well if they already sit like that then the class is already set up ok. Lol, just because you dont have to move your desks doesnt means it wrong? That's bizarre.

Sna can sit at the work station and work closer with the children for shorter periods

Untrained eye, some teachers are having trouble organising a class, other people have been managing covid in companies with a lot more people.

Laugh all you want you did not know why the picture is unsuitable. If an SNA is sitting with a child they are there for long periods. The picture was fine pre covid but the SNAs I know are very upset about the fact they are not included in any plans and the only picture is them without sd and ppe not encouraged.

Teachers will work this out it is what we do, but you have spent the evening explaining how to teach hygiene to 6 year olds and quoting pictures from a document that the teachers on this thread have read. Did it not cross your mind we do that everyday? Don't let them touch each others faces. It was a bit of a patronising post. Listen go into a classroom and see what we do. You then pick a diagram that teacher has already seen no doubt and you cant see why it is incorrect.

thenetherrealm wrote: »

Show me one office that is operating with no face masks, no perspex dividers, and 33 people in a single, poor ventilated room that is less than 70m squared.

Nether I did not post that it was the other fella, but I agree with you

thenetherrealm

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

khalessi wrote: »

Well if they already sit like that then the class is already set up ok. Lol, just because you dont have to move your desks doesnt means it wrong? That's bizarre.

Sna can sit at the work station and work closer with the children for shorter periods

Untrained eye, some teachers are having trouble organising a class, other people have been managing covid in companies with a lot more people and they are in their 6th and 7th month of managing it. September will be the teachers first month.

Show me one office that is operating with no face masks, no perspex dividers, and 33 people in a single, poor ventilated room that is less than 70m squared.

khalessi wrote: »

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Well it is a lovely picture but children already sit like that in class and it does not stop viruses spreading. More importantly the SNA is not afforded sd. But to an untrained eye it looks fine and that is what the DOE are hoping for.

Well if they already sit like that then the class is already set up ok. Lol, just because you dont have to move your desks doesnt means it wrong? That's bizarre.

Sna can sit at the work station and work closer with the children for shorter periods

Untrained eye, some teachers are having trouble organising a class, other people have been managing covid in companies with a lot more people and they are in their 6th and 7th month of managing it. September will be the teachers first month.