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How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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Dickie10

i wouldnt bank on schools reopen in september if pubs are shut unions will argue against going back teaching.

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Always said it would be left up to local arrangements. Will put schools against schools and God help the one that starts a cluster as they are going to be crucified.

No no no not local Wireless, bespoke solutions lol

r93kaey5p2izun

Dickie10 wrote: »

i wouldnt bank on schools reopen in september if pubs are shut unions will argue against going back teaching.

This is nonsense. Unions will not be basing their decision on pubs.

Smacruairi

With the news seemingly coming that the LC results will be delayed, despite the fact that teachers submitted their paperwork with very little fuss, on time, without much training, incentive or supports, and the govt STILL makes a mess of it, hopefully now those who don't teach are getting a sense of why teachers can not understand why the public blames teachers for the situation we are in.

The DES has made a mess of every single situation it has faced in this crisis. Any suggestions made by teachers, like hosting the leaving cert for example, were completely ignored, in favour of cowing down to shrill personalities.

I've tried to engage with the few rational posters asking questions, and even engaged with some of the more ignorant commentary, trying to explain and to enlighten. Hopefully those who were somewhat on the fence realise that maybe, just maybe, it's not the individual schools and teachers, but a higher up deficiency. We are not looking for sympathy, money, heroic status etc. Just a bit of objective understanding.

wirelessdude01

Smacruairi wrote: »

With the news seemingly coming that the LC results will be delayed, despite the fact that teachers submitted their paperwork with very little fuss, on time, without much training, incentive or supports, and the govt STILL makes a mess of it, hopefully now those who don't teach are getting a sense of why teachers can not understand why the public blames teachers for the situation we are in.

The DES has made a mess of every single situation it has faced in this crisis. Any suggestions made by teachers, like hosting the leaving cert for example, were completely ignored, in favour of cowing down to shrill personalities.

I've tried to engage with the few rational posters asking questions, and even engaged with some of the more ignorant commentary, trying to explain and to enlighten. Hopefully those who were somewhat on the fence realise that maybe, just maybe, it's not the individual schools and teachers, but a higher up deficiency. We are not looking for sympathy, money, heroic status etc. Just a bit of objective understanding.

Don't go on twitter so, awash with how useless the schools and teachers are and how they delayed the LC results being published. Horrible stuff.

Smacruairi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Don't go on twitter so, awash with how useless the schools and teachers are and how they delayed the LC results being published. Horrible stuff.

I actually deleted my twitter at the start of June for the summer. I think that platform has outrun its use. Its a cesspit. My only grievance is that, ironically, the only way to get news from the dept these days is through twitter. Ugh!

is_that_so

Just dip in and out of this thread. My own thoughts on this now looking at the political side is that it's looking ropey as a date. So do people genuinely believe that there will be a (semi) functioning education system in about 6 weeks time?

is_that_so

Smacruairi wrote: »

I actually deleted my twitter at the start of June for the summer. I think that platform has outrun its use. Its a cesspit. My only grievance is that, ironically, the only way to get news from the dept these days is through twitter. Ugh!

You can curate and filter aggressively to only get the good stuff. My account lives in a quiet part of it! I still get information I want.

Multipass

Smacruairi wrote: »

With the news seemingly coming that the LC results will be delayed, despite the fact that teachers submitted their paperwork with very little fuss, on time, without much training, incentive or supports, and the govt STILL makes a mess of it, hopefully now those who don't teach are getting a sense of why teachers can not understand why the public blames teachers for the situation we are in.

The DES has made a mess of every single situation it has faced in this crisis. Any suggestions made by teachers, like hosting the leaving cert for example, were completely ignored, in favour of cowing down to shrill personalities.

I've tried to engage with the few rational posters asking questions, and even engaged with some of the more ignorant commentary, trying to explain and to enlighten. Hopefully those who were somewhat on the fence realise that maybe, just maybe, it's not the individual schools and teachers, but a higher up deficiency. We are not looking for sympathy, money, heroic status etc. Just a bit of objective understanding.

Do you think the Dept has made a mess of it, or is this a tactic to make appeals impossible? I’m thinking it’s quite deliberate.

KildareP

is_that_so wrote: »

Just dip in and out of this thread. My own thoughts on this now looking at the political side is that it's looking ropey as a date. So do people genuinely believe that there will be a (semi) functioning education system in about 6 weeks time?

I expect schools will open long enough to get people registered for next year and make preperations to close at an undetemined date in the (near) future. There'll be widespread closures once cold and flu season hits, since you will have to self isolate based on symptoms alone until you can be tested negative.

No way will it be business as usual even from the get go.

At best, we might see a number of parents voluntarily keeping their children at home but with the expectation of being able to watch the full school day live online.

There will be issues around transport - reduced load factor on Dublin Bus an Bus Eireann on public side, coupled with difficulties in private operators making ends up meet in keeping their buses running (also at reduced load) just for school runs may mean it's cheaper to keep their vehicles off the road.

Difficulties in maintaining social distancing in class, never mind school day arrival and departure, or on wet days.

Difficulties with teaching and admin staff who have to self isolate, either due to contracting Covid-19 or being in close contact with a high risk individual (eg partner in health service).

Then there's further longer term issues insofar as there is absolutely no indication whether you start back in September, running all assessments and tests with the mindset you are forming your students calculated grades for June 2021...

Smacruairi

Multipass wrote: »

Do you think the Dept has made a mess of it, or is this a tactic to make appeals impossible? I’m thinking it’s quite deliberate.

They don't have that level of foresight. Not in my experience. But if their machiavellian scheme works, then again, I hope the student's union and the Ciara Kellys reflect appropriately.

Bobtheman

Smacruairi wrote: »

With the news seemingly coming that the LC results will be delayed, despite the fact that teachers submitted their paperwork with very little fuss, on time, without much training, incentive or supports, and the govt STILL makes a mess of it, hopefully now those who don't teach are getting a sense of why teachers can not understand why the public blames teachers for the situation we are in.

The DES has made a mess of every single situation it has faced in this crisis. Any suggestions made by teachers, like hosting the leaving cert for example, were completely ignored, in favour of cowing down to shrill personalities.

I've tried to engage with the few rational posters asking questions, and even engaged with some of the more ignorant commentary, trying to explain and to enlighten. Hopefully those who were somewhat on the fence realise that maybe, just maybe, it's not the individual schools and teachers, but a higher up deficiency. We are not looking for sympathy, money, heroic status etc. Just a bit of objective understanding.

This is so well put

Bobtheman

Smacruairi wrote: »

With the news seemingly coming that the LC results will be delayed, despite the fact that teachers submitted their paperwork with very little fuss, on time, without much training, incentive or supports, and the govt STILL makes a mess of it, hopefully now those who don't teach are getting a sense of why teachers can not understand why the public blames teachers for the situation we are in.

The DES has made a mess of every single situation it has faced in this crisis. Any suggestions made by teachers, like hosting the leaving cert for example, were completely ignored, in favour of cowing down to shrill personalities.

I've tried to engage with the few rational posters asking questions, and even engaged with some of the more ignorant commentary, trying to explain and to enlighten. Hopefully those who were somewhat on the fence realise that maybe, just maybe, it's not the individual schools and teachers, but a higher up deficiency. We are not looking for sympathy, money, heroic status etc. Just a bit of objective understanding.

This is so well put

wirelessdude01

KildareP wrote: »

Then there's further longer term issues insofar as there is absolutely no indication whether you start back in September, running all assessments and tests with the mindset you are forming your students calculated grades for June 2021...

I'm primary but I would guess that every principal in the country will tell the LC class of 2021 and their teachers to prepare for this possibility.

Mrsmum

KildareP wrote: »

I expect schools will open long enough to get people registered for next year and make preperations to close at an undetemined date in the (near) future. There'll be widespread closures once cold and flu season hits, since you will have to self isolate based on symptoms alone until you can be tested negative.

No way will it be business as usual even from the get go.

At best, we might see a number of parents voluntarily keeping their children at home but with the expectation of being able to watch the full school day live online.

There will be issues around transport - reduced load factor on Dublin Bus an Bus Eireann on public side, coupled with difficulties in private operators making ends up meet in keeping their buses running (also at reduced load) just for school runs may mean it's cheaper to keep their vehicles off the road.

Difficulties in maintaining social distancing in class, never mind school day arrival and departure, or on wet days.

Difficulties with teaching and admin staff who have to self isolate, either due to contracting Covid-19 or being in close contact with a high risk individual (eg partner in health service).

Then there's further longer term issues insofar as there is absolutely no indication whether you start back in September, running all assessments and tests with the mindset you are forming your students calculated grades for June 2021...

Considering those doing LC next year will have even more of a disrupted year than this year's cohort plus what they've already missed, wouldn't it be more honest for the DofE to say from the outset that of course it will be predictive grades again for next year.

deiseindublin

Knowing already that it would be PG for sure next year would be awful pressure on students to my mind. Imagine being afraid to slip up or chill a bit in class any day, in case teacher that was predicting your grade noticed. A horrible thought.

jlm29

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am not being smart but do they not have clothes already that they could wear ?

They’d need a lot more though? They’ll need a set of clothes for school, and I’d be putting clean clothes on them when they come home. Or maybe that’s excessive and unnecessary, i don’t know? Tbh, either way it’s going to be extra washing, but it would be easier to just put a navy tracksuit and a green jumper on every morning

Mrsmum

deiseindublin wrote: »

Knowing already that it would be PG for sure next year would be awful pressure on students to my mind. Imagine being afraid to slip up or chill a bit in class any day, in case teacher that was predicting your grade noticed. A horrible thought.

I think there won't be a teacher or a LC student that won't have PG to the absolute forefront of their mind all through next year. They would be fools to think otherwise unless by some miracle everything runs smoothly from Sept which is highly unlikely. But imo students should know which system they are actually working to because it impacts whether they devote more time to handing up excellent work to their teacher or devoting themselves to loads of revision for the exam. Teacher v exam. Both systems ie terminal exam or PG call for utilising time differently. I just kinda think expecting them to ride two horses is unfair.

Del Griffith

Germany getting on with it -

https://twitter.com/ADejeuville/status/1283472464757116930

GazzaL

Del Griffith wrote: »

Germany getting on with it -

https://twitter.com/ADejeuville/status/1283472464757116930

Great to see yet another country getting on with education. We will be surpassed by our friends in Europe. The abandonment of education in Ireland is a disgrace, it will be very damaging.

History Queen

Del Griffith wrote: »

Germany getting on with it -

https://twitter.com/ADejeuville/status/1283472464757116930

That tweet is a bit misleading, the article the tweet author tags directly below it recommends opening primary schools and daycare centres with a limit on groups, only 5 to 7 children per group.

https://www.saechsische.de/corona-dresdner-arzt-reinhard-berner-plaediert-fuer-kita-oeffnung-5198750.html

And another twitter user posted a different article from Germany claiming that schools were not expected to open as normal in September in Germany. I've pasted the content of the article below but link to original article also posted:

"Passau (epd). The German Association of Cities and Towns assumes that there will be no normal school operations after the summer holidays due to the corona pandemic. General manager Gerd Landsberg told the "Passauer Neue Presse" (Wednesday) that special hygiene measures are still required at the start of the new school year. This included smaller learning groups, good ventilation of the rooms, more room capacity and probably more staff.

Landsberg said the association also refuses to block entire counties if corona infections occur. "A curfew for an entire group, especially when large areas are not affected, is likely to be difficult to organize and control," he said. The response to local outbreaks must be faster and more targeted. "Local lockdowns" should "be limited to the hotspot" as soon as it is found."

https://www.evangelisch.de/inhalte/172610/15-07-2020/staedtebund-kein-normaler-schulbetrieb-nach-sommerferien

combat14

lads may forget about schools opening end of august till we get over the next few weeks ......

experts talking about return to phase 2 of lockdown if covid numbers keep rising ..

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-ireland-could-return-to-phase-2-of-lockdown-if-cases-rise-doctor-warns-1.4306951?mode=amp

Blazer

To be honest I think the best solution would have been to freeze all classes moving forward and have every class from primary to college all repeat. That way no kids would lose out and the years refresher would do no harm while giving all schools a year to implement better plans.
The DoE is basically a joke..their latest recommendations are so vague its a farce.
The danger of pushing on is a lot of kids could lose out on education and we end up with a so called lost generation in future years.
By repeating we avoid this, obviously there are other issues etc such as pre-school but its no harm increasing the age at when children start school as in sweden and other places people throw out as having better education.

Not sure if its viable but the other options being considered aren't much either.

jrosen

Blazer wrote: »

To be honest I think the best solution would have been to freeze all classes moving forward and have every class from primary to college all repeat. That way no kids would lose out and the years refresher would do no harm while giving all schools a year to implement better plans.
The DoE is basically a joke..their latest recommendations are so vague its a farce.
The danger of pushing on is a lot of kids could lose out on education and we end up with a so called lost generation in future years.
By repeating we avoid this, obviously there are other issues etc such as pre-school but its no harm increasing the age at when children start school as in sweden and other places people throw out as having better education.

Not sure if its viable but the other options being considered aren't much either.

Its not viable for many reasons, way back on this thread some were covered.

wirelessdude01

Blazer wrote: »

To be honest I think the best solution would have been to freeze all classes moving forward and have every class from primary to college all repeat. That way no kids would lose out and the years refresher would do no harm while giving all schools a year to implement better plans.
The DoE is basically a joke..their latest recommendations are so vague its a farce.
The danger of pushing on is a lot of kids could lose out on education and we end up with a so called lost generation in future years.
By repeating we avoid this, obviously there are other issues etc such as pre-school but its no harm increasing the age at when children start school as in sweden and other places people throw out as having better education.

Not sure if its viable but the other options being considered aren't much either.

Never a workable solution on any level.

You'd have 14yr olds still in primary for starters.

jrosen

Im a parent who is pushing for a full return to school but that was if we continued to see the pattern we had. But as the cases increase of course it places huge doubt on the ability of schools to return. Which is why its even more important for their to be a plan B. A workable accessible plan that enables some level of education to be delivered to the students of Ireland. With systems in place that monitor quality and engagement of teachers and students. Anything else is simply failing the kids.

Blazer

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Never a workable solution on any level.

You'd have 14yr olds still in primary for starters.

better than that than sending them off to secondary school where a lot of them could get significant delays in education needs etc.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

Im a parent who is pushing for a full return to school but that was if we continued to see the pattern we had. But as the cases increase of course it places huge doubt on the ability of schools to return. Which is why its even more important for their to be a plan B. A workable accessible plan that enables some level of education to be delivered to the students of Ireland. With systems in place that monitor quality and engagement of teachers and students. Anything else is simply failing the kids.

And still we wait on the department.

wirelessdude01

Blazer wrote: »

better than that than sending them off to secondary school where a lot of them could get significant delays in education needs etc.

Shouldn't be an issue for the vast vast majority of new 1st years.

jrosen

Blazer wrote: »

better than that than sending them off to secondary school where a lot of them could get significant delays in education needs etc.

It would be really difficult for the 6th years and older kids. They are already outgrowing the school system by then, anther year would be a nightmare for them.

Much easier to accommodate and catch up for younger years I would think .