timmy_mallet wrote: » Well, I wouldn't be comfortable with my kids using a santiser provided by someone else, would you? I will be providing them with their own. And if there are mandatory hand sanitising stations in schools from September, I'd argue they are a greater risk to safety than if they didn't exist. Each child in the school touching something with their hands on arrival is absurd.
murphyebass wrote: » Even if it is a trigger they touch to get the sanitizer out..... they then sanatIze their hands so what’s the problem. It’s like the automatic soap dispenser for the home that were launched a year or two ago. No need to touch a trigger. Yay, oh wait I’m getting soap out to WASH MY HANDS!
froog wrote: » What do people do after they touch the sanitiser? Think about it now for a second.
Lillyfae wrote: » Sanitisers are not very effective. Better than nothing but not the most effective. The washing your hands for 20 seconds comes about because the virus cells have a lipid layer that is only broken down properly by soap and warm water. So it's more of a physical reaction than chemical actually.
froog wrote: » Yeah alcohol at a certain concentration does that too by the way.
jrosen wrote: » <snip> My dentist and my kids dentists are not taking temps for this reason, my hair dresser said the same and my doctors office is not taking temps either although Im not sure why. My kids have been back to camp for 2 weeks and no temp checks either.
munchkin_utd wrote: » temperature checks just show you have a fever, which ffs you would know anyhow as you'd be feeling well dodgy. The people who are causing the havoc are people with no symptoms, and that includes no temperature. Anyhow, we are abroad and my kids are back in school (week on, week off) for the past 6 weeks and this is now their last week before the summer holidays. Each class is split in 2 groups which alternate. I am fairly sure they aren't bothering with hand sanitiser, because washing hands with soap and water is incredibly effective against viruses (which we all know have a fatty outer skin which soap breaks up, rendering the virus "dead") and they wash their hands every time they come back into the classroom. In in the morning each class arrives staggered by 15 minutes, that leads to lunch break(s) staggered by 15 minutes, each half class only eats and plays within their own class, and even the play is socially distanced. So they are close-ish to those in their class/ group of 10 to 15, but barely see anyone outside of that. Should any case be detected, then only that (half) class would need to go into isolation, not the entire school, town, region or country. It's pretty basic sensible stuff . Each school chooses what works best for them regarding patterns of attendance, i.e. other schools are in every other day rather than a week on, week off. Come september it looks likely that they'll all be in with full classes, with permission for vulnerable kids to stay at home (as is the case now anyhow) and I have no idea what the arrangements will be with that. All in all it works really well. At this stage all schools at all levels across the country have been back before the summer holidays to some sort of school attendance. The thinking was that it was safe with the measures PLUS should they have judged that wrong, then the summer holidays would be round the corner and they could reset the plans in safety and come back in Autumn either with better hygene plans, or proper distance learning. I looked up the figures and theres 32,500+ schools, just under 11 million schoolkids, and not one reported cluster tracked back to a school (yet). Autumn will be probably see an odd case here or there, but should classes remain separate and traceable then VERY localised action on a class level can be taken, letting the rest of the school carry on.
History Queen wrote: » (which will be the least disruptive option if they can pull it off)
If parents are struggling with work/ childcare they need to lobby their management to accept that there will be gaps in their working day and they need patience and support to temporarily facilitate this
JDD wrote: » What happens if parents put the children into after-school facilities full time for the day off/week off scenario? Is this going to be allowed? Because unless the government say that the children must be minded at home on the day off/week off, I can see a lot of people using their afterschool facility in the same way that they use it during the summer holidays. And surely having kids mix with a different group of children on the day off/week off increases the chances of the virus being caught and spread (including to their teacher).
Lillyfae wrote: » I don't know why people are so focused on this though. Covid-19 is disruptive. What should be aimed for, is the best possible scenario- that might mean difficult decisions, higher costs and an enormous amount of complicated planning but that's what is necessary and this all or nothing approach needs to be thrown out the window. If the department aren't able to get 100% of schools 100% ready on time then they need to make sure that teachers and students affected have the resources that they need to access online materials in the mean time. If teachers feel that they/ their family members are at risk so they can't come to work (even with full PPE and procedures in place) they need to either commit to backing up their colleagues in some other productive way or take a reduced payment. If parents are struggling with work/ childcare they need to lobby their management to accept that there will be gaps in their working day and they need patience and support to temporarily facilitate this (notwithstanding frontline workers who should be prioritised re childcare/ school places)
jrosen wrote: » Parents have been supported though, for months now. How long do you think an employer should have to be flexible? For many they have allowed reduced working days/weeks. Reduced work loads for some because they have kids at home and could not manage. I have friends who are starting their work day early in the morning and not finishing until late at night. They are exhausted and its not sustainable. All aspects of their life is suffering. What about people who are physically required on site to work? There is no flexibility there, you either show up to work or you dont get paid. Mortgage breaks will finish soon, eviction ban for tenants no longer. People will have to work.
Lillyfae wrote: » Agreed, certainly. But there's a hell of a lot of work to do before some Irish schools are even up to standard facility wise. Years of neglect- I don't know if the funding has been sufficient or not but obviously management hasn't been good. Prioritise services for frontline workers. PUP for people who are required to work onsite but can't. I'm not saying that employers should have to wait indefinitely or that employees should be going through this stress, anything but. But it shouldn't be a rush back full steam ahead just because it's "less disruptive" without sufficiently mitigating the risk first. Handwashing facilities, necessary sq metres etc etc. Otherwise they'll end up closing them again. I don't see actions happening as of yet though.
jrosen wrote: » Yes some of the schools seem to have been left behind with zero investment. I just worry for employees that patience is wearing thin with their employers and they will be expected to be churning out the usual work load. Which from speaking to other parents is causing huge distress. Your right it shouldn't be a rush back, schools should only open if they are ready do to so.
Lillyfae wrote: » Read what you've quoted. I'm saying parents need to be supported by their employers, nothing to do with the school/childcare facility.
JDD wrote: » I work for the public service, and they have been very understanding so far. And my husband and I have been very lucky in that a) there are two of us parenting and b) we have jobs that allow us to WFH full time. So we have been shift working - minding the kids 8am to 2pm or 2pm to 7pm. So I am currently working at around 50% of my capacity, pre-pandemic, but getting paid a full time wage. It has been very decent of them. If schools go back week on/week off, and we do not use their after-school facility, we will still need to shift work on the week off, and take turns parenting in the afternoons during the week on. I see it already that our workload is going back as if I am working my usual 8/9 hour day, while on the surface there are emails saying "we understand your issues and we are willing to be flexible, just stay in contact you local management regarding workload".
Lillyfae wrote: » I know how it feels! But there was no rush back in March, that's when risk assessments should have started. They've had months for this.
History Queen wrote: » Out of curiosity, what country are you in? It doesn't sound like we are looking at following a similiar pattern to ye, in that they seem determined to have all students back full-time (which will be the least disruptive option if they can pull it off). I really feel handwashing facilities would go a long way towards helping us to keep schools open but with only 7 or 8 weeks to schools reopening I haven't heard any concrete plans to enable this.
Lillyfae wrote: » At a certain concentration, when used correctly.
froog wrote: » Lots of people dont use soap properly either. Not sure what your point is here. I assume you dont like shops telling you to disinfect your hands or something?
munchkin_utd wrote: » we are in southern Germany and the plan currently is to aim for full opening here in September too, but we'll see if that actually happens. Cases are really low (0 cases in last 8 days in Mecklenburg vorpommern state for example) in some regions, but down south its not quite as low, so I can see the eastern states going back 100% but ourselves sticking to a week on week off for a while, at least at the beginning. The after school care is now back to almost normal for us, they are even there on the afternoons they have "home school" in the morning, so even if theres a bit of home schooling it'll not be the worst. Of course theres spacing and staggered meals and homework and lots of outdoors play at the after school so its as safe as they can make it. To be honest, if I were planning Irelands return (for the first time since March) I'd nearly do it in split classes at the beginning, week on week off, for the first fortnight to get the kids into the routine in manageable numbers, beat into them that it's not normal school and they need to get into a routine for washing hands etc, dealing with staggered breaks or whatever well thought out plan the powers that be have came up with over the 20 odd weeks off. A lot of the reasoning behind the idea with the german schools going back before summer, was to get a trial run in the good weather, get the kids into the routine AND with the summer holidays there as a buffer afterwards with time to go back and refine the plan with lessons learnt over the break - but at least the kids here know what to expect in September.
timmy_mallet wrote: » Oh baby. Shocking level of understanding.
Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: » No more risky than everyone touching a tap and not washing correctly with soap. And WHO and HPSC still recommend washing or sanitizer for all on entry to a school or other building and at various other points in the day. I'd say they've some experience in assessing the risks related to managing hand hygiene in infectious outbreaks. Hand sanitizer in hospital foyers, for example, is nothing new and recommended as better than doing nothing. If something so simple is going to be argued about then schools are in for a nightmare in September.
Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: » If something so simple is going to be argued about then schools are in for a nightmare in September.
